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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 19:45:43
In reply to Re: The Three R's of Apology: A Musing » Dinah, posted by Atticus on January 25, 2005, at 19:03:30
My post wasn't intended as a dig, subtle or otherwise, to Dr. Bob. I'm not feeling particularly out of charity with him.
While certainly a heartfelt apology from Dr. Bob would soothe many a savage breast, a heartfelt poster to poster apology also would often avert many an admin flareup.
I emphasized the inadvertant nature of offenses for a reason. I think sometimes those are really hard to apologize for, but I figure it doesn't actually hurt to apologize for inadvertantly causing pain.
And no, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular at all. In general, I'm pretty impressed with the lack of defensiveness in Babbledom.
I just think I recently saw a post about a circular hurt chain, and somehow connected it to what I had been talking about with my son. The mysterious workings of my own brain are probably something best left unexamined.
Of course, I didn't mean for Dr. Bob to ignore the post either. ;)
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 19:47:32
In reply to A clarification, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 19:45:43
After I posted it, I got a premonition.
I got the premonition that I would shortly see it repeated in a post addressed to me when Dr. Bob implements the gated community boards. I hope he at least credits me for it.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 19:57:33
In reply to Actually, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 19:47:32
That makes you right either way :-)
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 20:01:53
In reply to Re: Actually » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 19:57:33
Well, I do like being right, but I'm afraid I'm also thick. How am I right either way?
Posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 20:17:40
In reply to Re: Actually » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 20:01:53
Sorry, I was sort of kidding around.
I mean maybe if he doesn't implement the gated community then you might be 'right' in the sense of having convinced him it wouldn't / shouldn't work...
And if he does implement the gated community then he could use the apology stuff and you would be 'right' about the use of that.
Doesn't matter.
I'm a bit thick myself.
Forget it.
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 20:42:00
In reply to Re: Actually » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 20:17:40
:-)
Well, I've got a snowball's chance in... of convincing him about gated communities. lol.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 20:58:18
In reply to Re: Actually » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 20:42:00
I am benefiting from the discussion anyway.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 21:01:34
In reply to Re: Actually » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 20:58:18
Besides which even if he is determined to do this there are better or worse ways of doing this.
More or less hurtful ones.
And people have a thread where they can read about the issues involved before making a decision whether to participate or not.
I think it is a helpful thread.
Even if we don't get what we want in the end
It can be helpful to understand the reasons why we did not get it.Whether we agree with them or not.
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 21:06:56
In reply to Re: Actually, posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 21:01:34
Oh, I'm an inveterate windmill tilter. If I feel passionately about something, I'll bash my head against that wall even if I haven't a chance at making a dent.
I don't mind dinging my head a bit. But I hate being angry at the wall. :(
Posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 21:22:43
In reply to Re: Actually » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 21:06:56
> I'll bash my head against that wall even if I haven't a chance at making a dent.
> I don't mind dinging my head a bit. But I hate being angry at the wall. :(
Sorry, but I can't keep up the wall analogy...
There are two things: Dr B and the issue.
You have strong feelings about the issue.
Maybe by discussing it you can come to see that there are many ways in which you can view the issue.
You might still have strong feelings, but you might not be so disappointed / angry with Dr B for seeing it differently.
It is possible that he might come to see it your way. Not likely, but possible. And it is possible that you might come to see things his way. Not likely, but possible.
There are other people who may be undecided how to view it...
What you have to say might encourage him to approach this in a more sensitive way than he would have otherwise.
Try not to see it as banging your head up against a wall.
There are more things than the issue of whether the wall will budge. Aren't there?
Posted by mair on January 25, 2005, at 21:30:37
In reply to Re: Actually, posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 21:01:34
>
>" I think it is a helpful thread.
> Even if we don't get what we want in the end
> It can be helpful to understand the reasons why we did not get it."
>You're giving Bob too much credit for clarity. We probably won't get what we want, and in all likelihood, we won't understand the real reasons why.
I'm pretty sure Dinah would agree with me on this observation, but she speaks so much better for herself.
Mair
Posted by alexandra_k on January 25, 2005, at 21:38:46
In reply to Re: Actually, posted by mair on January 25, 2005, at 21:30:37
> You're giving Bob too much credit for clarity.
Ah, it was more an expression of faith...
I do think he is trying.>We probably won't get what we want, and in all likelihood, we won't understand the real reasons why.
'Real reasons' can be hard to figure. There can be lots of things going on. The 'real reasons' may well have been expressed already. As for understanding, maybe we won't but I think we should try. The way we would like him to try to understand us.
I don't know.
Just trying to promote good feelings all round...
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2005, at 21:39:10
In reply to Re: Actually, posted by mair on January 25, 2005, at 21:30:37
I have made myself vulnerable to Dr. Bob and laid my soul bare in the hopes of entering a meaningful dialog with him. And I was completely genuine in the attempt.
But so that he knows he doesn't have to avoid Admin forever, I'll also admit that I'm not a fool and it was a risk that was cushioned with reasonable expectations.
So for today I'll hold out hope that dialog is possible and desirable for all parties.
(But I'll be ready to join you in comradely laughter tomorrow, should it be called for. And Mair, you know you speak admirably well.)
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2005, at 1:36:58
In reply to Re: The Three R's of Apology: A Musing » Dinah, posted by Atticus on January 25, 2005, at 19:03:30
> if your mind ever gets hungry enough to ponder the possibility of your being fallible.
Please don't be sarcastic or post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
I really thought about posting this and decided it was the right course of action for the board because I'd like the atmosphere here to be as harmonious as possible. However, I realize that although I do my best to do what I believe is in the best interests of the board, my action may distress you. If this distresses you (or others), I sincerely regret that. While I may not be able to repair things in the way that you would wish, I do want to tell you that I and the community value you for your fighting spirit and I hope that this doesn't unduly affect your continued relationship with the community. Best wishes,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 4:49:01
In reply to Re: Actually, posted by mair on January 25, 2005, at 21:30:37
Posted by Atticus on January 26, 2005, at 10:50:41
In reply to Re: please be civil » Atticus, posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2005, at 1:36:58
Jesus wept! Not another PBC! I'm accruing these things like bloody speeding tickets. Good thing I'm about to go on holiday from PB. I do think that if you could demonstrate a much, much greater degree of empathy in all your decisions, and if you could bring yourself to allow intuitive empathy to shape your decisions more (or better still, all the time), you'd have a much more harmonious site. Next you'll argue that this would be unfair and capricious. Well, guess what, boyo: You're already very widely viewed as unfair and capricious -- and I believe one poster even referred to you as "heartless" as well. Let your heart rule your head more often, and I think your decisions as an administrator will be more successful and better received. I'd still like to see you apologize to Angel Girl for what I (and many, many others here) think was an appalling lapse of judgment. I think just that simple gesture would go a long way toward healing the wounds you've left across this site, and the damage you've done to your "status" as an authority figure. Because right now a good deal of this site is united in its disgust with you. That means all your future decisions will be questioned as well. Better to admit to one mistake and make a gentle and kind human being feel better than to stand pat due to some kind of foolish pride. I'd certainly think more of you, and that's saying a lot. Now I'm off the site for a non-PB holiday for about a month. All of this cr*p has really left my emotions twisted and unstable, and in someone with rapid-cycling BP, that ain't a good thing. I'll be curious to see whether you stay the same or grow as an administrator and a person in my absence. Atticus
Posted by Tabitha on January 26, 2005, at 11:23:10
In reply to Re: please be civil » Atticus, posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2005, at 1:36:58
I just cracked up reading Dinah's apology paragraph in Dr Bob's PBC. It sounds so very non-Bob-like. I had to check the post header to make sure it was Dr Bob posting.
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 12:17:30
In reply to Re: The new Dr Bob?, posted by Tabitha on January 26, 2005, at 11:23:10
Well, to give him credit, he remembered it and used it properly in context. :) Even more to his credit, he did go to the trouble of rewording it slightly so that it felt more comfortable to him (or to correct my grammar errors) and to personalize it to the poster and the situation.
You know, I strongly suspect that people overestimate Dr. Bob's pleasure in compliance. I think he has a real fondness for those with a fighting spirit. And irreverence. I've definitely noticed a fondness for irreverence.
Posted by AuntieMel on January 26, 2005, at 13:42:32
In reply to Re: The new Dr Bob? » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 12:17:30
Then I must be his new best friend!
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 26, 2005, at 14:18:07
In reply to Re: The new Dr Bob? » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 12:17:30
If he'd asked Atticus to play Spiderman with him and the Guys..
Posted by Angel Girl on January 26, 2005, at 15:01:26
In reply to Re: The new Dr Bob? » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 12:17:30
>
> I think he has a real fondness for those with a fighting spirit. And irreverence. I've definitely noticed a fondness for irreverence.
Maybe that was MY big mistake. I kept apologizing to Dr.Bob for my irreverence. Maybe he would've liked me if I hadn't.AG (who is still very much reeling from last night here)
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 26, 2005, at 16:37:04
In reply to Re: please be civil » Atticus, posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2005, at 1:36:58
??????
> > if your mind ever gets hungry enough to ponder the possibility of your being fallible.
>
> Please don't be sarcastic or post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
>
> I really thought about posting this and decided it was the right course of action for the board because I'd like the atmosphere here to be as harmonious as possible. However, I realize that although I do my best to do what I believe is in the best interests of the board, my action may distress you. If this distresses you (or others), I sincerely regret that. While I may not be able to repair things in the way that you would wish, I do want to tell you that I and the community value you for your fighting spirit and I hope that this doesn't unduly affect your continued relationship with the community. Best wishes,
>
> Bob
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 17:32:45
In reply to Re: The new Dr Bob? » Dinah, posted by Angel Girl on January 26, 2005, at 15:01:26
Angel Girl, to some extent I was kidding and speculating. Dr. Bob shows equal distance to all, as far as I can see. I don't think he has any dislike for you. Anyone who looks for a personal reaction from Dr. Bob is doomed to be disappointed.
But he provides a nice service for us by providing the space for this community. And we can get tons of personal reactions from others here.
Posted by Angel Girl on January 26, 2005, at 21:34:05
In reply to Re: The new Dr Bob? » Angel Girl, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 17:32:45
> Angel Girl, to some extent I was kidding and speculating. Dr. Bob shows equal distance to all, as far as I can see. I don't think he has any dislike for you. Anyone who looks for a personal reaction from Dr. Bob is doomed to be disappointed.
>
> But he provides a nice service for us by providing the space for this community. And we can get tons of personal reactions from others here.
DinahThanks for clearing that up for me.
AG
Posted by Tabitha on January 27, 2005, at 0:15:57
In reply to Re: The new Dr Bob? » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on January 26, 2005, at 12:17:30
> Well, to give him credit, he remembered it and used it properly in context. :) Even more to his credit, he did go to the trouble of rewording it slightly so that it felt more comfortable to him (or to correct my grammar errors) and to personalize it to the poster and the situation.
That's nice, but if he wants us to believe it's really him talking, I think he'll need to reduce it down to 8 words or less. ;-)
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