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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sad Sara on November 6, 2004, at 16:33:10
I see that you PBC someone who writes this:
"I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received".
Can you please tell me a civil way to tell someone that their way of responding to someone elses feelings is not a respectful way of reacting? I think it is important to be able to tell someone when he is acting in a disrespectful way to someone elses explanation of how they feel about something.The next thing I am going to write does NOT have anything to do with the content of the above statement that I have copied and pasted in, neither does it have anything to do with any of the parts involved in the discussion where I copied it from. It created a dilemma for me, and I would like you to exlain to me how to be civil in a HYPTHETICAL SITUATION, where I could like how to tell someone that their way of responding to someone elses feelings is not a respectful way of reacting.
Though, if I still manage to make someone feel hurt, put down, or harassed, please keep in mind that I don't have anyone in specific on this board in mind, I am just interested in trying to understand civil and not civil, apropriate way of responding etc etc. I don't feel entire sure that I am capable of being at this board since my language skills are not very elaborated (I am dyslectic, and even though I do as good as I can in having a broad language, it is still not my strongest side)... I would in any case like th eopportunity to learn... so PLEASE DON'T FEEL PUT DOWN OR HURT BY THIS, THIS IS PURELY ASKING FOR LEARNING!!!!!!!
Let me explain (this is just an example, not a real case): I am lecturing my class in grammar, and act a bit distant. I sometimes stop in the middle of a sentence for almost a minute before I continue again. One of my students get very annoyed, and confront me with the fact that it seems like I am "doped or something". I decide to tell my class why I am acting as I am since it is not a secret and not a crime. "My mother called me yesterday and told me that my father is in the hospital again for his cancer. I am very upset today because of this, because I know my father does not have a very long time left to live and I love my father dearly". The student responds with telling me very politely that if I am upset because of that, I should have shown the responsibility of calling in sick and not go to work. He also explains to me that since the class is mandatory and they have to show up, he requires that I show up in a perfect condition to teach, since that is also required by the university law. He further tells me that he is going to complain about this to the management.
In this situation I would feel very hurt because I had relieved to him someting that has made me very sad, and that means something to me. I do not care whether he thought that I was "doped or something", since I could perfectly well understand that he thought that... after all I was acting quite different from usual. But I would feel hurt about the fact that he disrespected my feelings so much that he did not even say "I am sorry to hear that your father is sick, and I am sorry I thought your behaviour was a result of intoxication". My mother is originally from the (people called) travellers in Denmark, and in her culture it was seen as an insult to not take into regard someones feelings with a sympathetic. In fact, in the old times that would be an insult enough to die for. Therefor I am raised very strictly with: if someone tells you about something that has made them feel a negative feeling, show them respect with acknowledging that you have heard what they said and that you sympathetize with them.
The students overlooking my feelings would make me feel like the fact that my father is sick and about to die does not mean anything, and that I am being selfish for letting my pain interrupt my teaching. I don't think the student really meant to make me feel like that, so I would like to call him in to my office and tell him that I feel that he is not reacting in an appropriate way when someone tells them how they feel. I would like to do this because think it is important both for him and for the people he will have contact with in the future that he understand that his way of reacting towards people telling them they feel sad (or possibly hurt, depressed, lonely, anxious) might make other people feel hurt. I would explain why, and what he could say/do instead. Not because I was hurt by what he said (I was, but thats not WHY I'm telling him), but I would to let him know that his way of responding is not appropriate, why, and teach him how to be respectful. I would think that important also for him, he would learn something about himself, AND manage to change a bad behaviour...
But if I can't say to him that I think his way of respondings to other people telling him their feelings are disrespectful, how do I really do this? And how can one manage to change a bad behaviour is it is uncivil to tell someone that they dislike that behaviour? And who can really decide what is most uncivil... considering I feel very hurt and I would like to prohibit that other people experiences the same behaviour from this person, but this person will probably feel very hurt if I say that I think certain aspects of his behaviour is not good.
So mainly, which one has the most right to get protected from getting hurt:
A. my student
B. The next person that tells him about his/her feelingsI am really really confused about this matter, so thank you very much if you could explain me this.
Sara (who does not want any comments about my background since that is a very sore subject for me)
Posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2004, at 17:35:42
In reply to Dr. Bob, could you explain me this, posted by Sad Sara on November 6, 2004, at 16:33:10
> I see that you PBC someone who writes this:
> "I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received".
> Can you please tell me a civil way to tell someone that their way of responding to someone elses feelings is not a respectful way of reacting? I think it is important to be able to tell someone when he is acting in a disrespectful way to someone elses explanation of how they feel about something.Hi Sara. The quote was from my post and it generated quite a discussion regarding how it was uncivil and that led to a clarification of the civility rules.
I guess that by considering what I said to be a way of 'telling someone when they are acting in a disrespectful way' I am a bit clearer on how it wasn't really civil after all. I didn't mean to accuse the person of acting in a disrespectful way, rather I intended to express my opinion that others felt hurt because they felt like their feelings weren't being heard and that that was (in my opinion) responsible for others responding to the person by attacking or withdrawing.
I think that the person feeling hurt by the statement was what led to the PBC. I couldn't think of a rephrasing either. But maybe sometimes it is best to just back off and leave it be.
Especially when many have gone before.
I don't know what else to say.
Posted by Sad Sara on November 6, 2004, at 18:18:28
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, could you explain me this » Sad Sara, posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2004, at 17:35:42
Well yes, thats true, but I cant get this out of my head... I would really like to understand how to express these things....
Posted by gardenergirl on November 6, 2004, at 19:49:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, could you explain me this, posted by Sad Sara on November 6, 2004, at 18:18:28
I'm not sure if this relates to what you are asking or not, but one thing I learned from a supervisor last year about dealing with conflict, is that it is often more effective for feedback to come from the "injured party" rather than from others. This way, the "offender" hears first hand how their behavior or statements affected someone else.
So, Sara, in your teaching example, if you wanted to confront the student, it might be best to express to him that you felt hurt by his lack of sympathy. And then maybe leave it at that. If he has any empathy at all, he will get the message and perhaps modify his behavior. If he doesn't, I'm not sure you could teach him to behave better via any method.
I used this approach when I was working as a kind of middle person between two teams. Instead of me confronting others when there was a problem between two people, I instead helped them to state their feelings to the other as the "injured party". This really did seem to help.
I know I would feel bad if someone said to me "I felt hurt when you said XXXXX" versus somebody else saying "you saying XXX was not nice." I guess it puts a human face on the behavior's consequences that is harder to ignore.
Okay, enough rambling.
gg
Posted by Sad Sara on November 7, 2004, at 2:20:25
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, could you explain me this » Sad Sara, posted by gardenergirl on November 6, 2004, at 19:49:17
Thank your for answers.
I am luckily working with children and not grown up, so I would not have to confront a grown up student with his behaviour.... and confronting children is such an easier task :-)
I think maybe the difference is that when you are a child it is expected and accepted that you sometimes hurt others without necessarily meaning to. It is also expected and accepted that you correct a child.
In short, being on these pages for a few days has made me appreciate the fact that I am working with children a lot more than before.
Posted by coral on November 7, 2004, at 9:06:13
In reply to Dr. Bob, could you explain me this, posted by Sad Sara on November 6, 2004, at 16:33:10
Dear Sara,
As an educator, you have a responsibility to provide coaching or corrective action to your students.
According to Miss Manners, it's impossible to correct another adult's behavior without committing the same offense. One can non-verbally register disapproval (which is ...ahh....somewhat difficult on a bb!). One can remove oneself from the offending party...Or, one can enter the fracas.
It is especially difficult when you'd like to come to the defense of someone else....I don't know of any other method to approach the situation, except by gentle questioning....
Coral
Posted by Sad Sara on November 7, 2004, at 9:24:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, could you explain me this, posted by coral on November 7, 2004, at 9:06:13
True
The tricky thing about gentle questioning is that you might make the other one feel trapped, which also can create negative feelings about oneself...To be really extreme, that is.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 7, 2004, at 11:36:30
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, could you explain me this » Sad Sara, posted by gardenergirl on November 6, 2004, at 19:49:17
Thanks gg, what you have said makes a lot of sense to me. I think I understand where I went wrong and why I shouldn't really have gotten involved.
Posted by gardenergirl on November 7, 2004, at 20:18:32
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, could you explain me this » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on November 7, 2004, at 11:36:30
I'm glad it helped. :)
gg
Posted by jujube on November 8, 2004, at 12:38:11
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, could you explain me this, posted by Sad Sara on November 7, 2004, at 9:24:17
It is a delicate situation, no matter what situation you are in. However, respect is a two-way street. If a student (or a colleague, friend, family, etc.) expects to be treated with respect, then that individual must learn how to return that respect. Although the situation is different, as a manager, I have had a number of situations where one employee feels they have been wronged or treated disrespectfully by another employee. I have trained my staff now to try first to resolve their own conflicts. I don't want to end up in a situation where I have had to intervene, only to have the two employees resenting each other for running to the boss. I advise each employee to take a few minutes or even a day and then to approach the other and talk calmly and rationally to the other and explain how their actions or words made them feel. This approach has worked incredibly well. I am informed so I know what is going on in terms of conflicts, but the employees have always risen to the occasion and worked things out among themselves and suprisingly have continued to work extremely well together.
All the long-windedness is to say that pointing out to someone how their behaviour affected you (and could affect others, and the person's relationships with others in the future), once you have had a chance to step back from the situation and put it into perspective, can not only be therapeutic, but also remedial.
It amazes me how society, at times, has become so self-centered, not thinking about how words and actions affect others. You, actually, as an educator, are in a unique position to shape young minds. You have an opportunity to instill some, in my opinion, long-forgotten values - respect, compassion, manners, etc.
If you are concerned about approaching the student, could you perhaps discuss the situation with the principal and explain what approach you want to take in dealing with the student? It might give you some peace of mind to have some support before proceeding.
Whatever you decide to to, I wish you luck.
Tamara
> True
> The tricky thing about gentle questioning is that you might make the other one feel trapped, which also can create negative feelings about oneself...
>
> To be really extreme, that is.
Posted by verne on November 9, 2004, at 2:10:02
In reply to Dr. Bob, could you explain me this, posted by Sad Sara on November 6, 2004, at 16:33:10
Quoting part of your question, my observation follows:
"I see that you PBC someone who writes this:
"I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received".Can you please tell me a civil way to tell someone that their way of responding to someone elses feelings is not a respectful way of reacting? I think it is important to be able to tell someone when he is acting in a disrespectful way to someone elses explanation of how they feel about something"
That's just it, there's no babbivil way to tell an another, "I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received". Any statement that attempts to correct, scold, or shame should be left to parents, teachers, and those in a position of authority but doesn't belong on a safe board among equals.
When someone writes, "I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received" it is really just scolding them for not being more understanding or receptive.
To me, it's an obvious example of a "put down" under the babble rules.
verne
Posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2004, at 2:40:28
In reply to Babbivility » Sad Sara, posted by verne on November 9, 2004, at 2:10:02
I was not intending to correct, scold, or shame.
It was an honest attempt to communicate.
To attempt to improve the situation.
However, it blew up in my face quite badly...
Posted by verne on November 9, 2004, at 2:58:35
In reply to Ouch » verne, posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2004, at 2:40:28
Alexandra,
I wish I had read the entire thread a little more closely. I missed your response.
I was just lost in babble language theory and not thinking at all about who posted the sentence brought into question - or that there was even a human being behind the post.
I had been musing about the question for a day or two and came back a bit late, to whip a dead horse I think. I can't count the times I've done that.
No offense was meant. Sorry.
verne
Posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2004, at 13:58:26
In reply to Sorry » alexandra_k, posted by verne on November 9, 2004, at 2:58:35
This is the end of the thread.
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