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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on September 18, 2003, at 20:33:36
Babble is really testing me lately. I was really struggling over my first PBC, and Bob's policy regarding the impostor, and Gabbi's block. I found myself thinking many of those anti-Bob thoughts the expats are always posting. I could see myself posting furious diatribes on Admin, or leaving in anger, or both.Then I actually came to terms with it. The impostor, and Bob's policy, and the fact that I probably can't influence him one bit. I had this whole revelation about 'attack and defend' mentality, and how that plays out in my life, and why the impostor event pushed my buttons. I applied my church teachings to it. It was a growth experience, dang it! It's clear, I don't need to insult the impostor. It won't make the site better if we can all do that. It won't make me feel better. It won't heal my hurt or anyone else's. The impostor didn't take anything away from me, so I don't need to put them down to get my power back. If I really believe what I posted, that the impostor is acting out of hurt, I wouldn't want to heap more hurt onto them. I was just acting out *my* hurt and anger. Exactly what I was accusing them of! No wonder I was so peeved.
Then I got a 'citizen's PBC' from stjames and I'm having a whole slew of new angry thoughts, and feelings of shame.
The odd thing is, after over a year of posting, and never getting a PBC, lately I was feeling like I'd become more supportive. Like before I was just there to have fun, and talk to my favorites, and lately I was really wanting to just give support to everyone, even people I didn't think of as friends. My therapist said it shows I've become more supportive of myself, so I'm feeling more supportive to others. Yet now I get 2 PBCs in a week. And I didn't really see either one of them coming. I felt bad about my insult to the impostor, but I still didn't expect a PBC. And I thought nothing of the comment that irked stjames, until I saw his reaction.
It's confusing. I don't know if the site has changed, or I've changed, or if it's just random events. But my civility radar seems to be broken, and I'm afraid I'll get blocked any moment.
Sigh...
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 10:25:18
In reply to Struggling, posted by Tabitha on September 18, 2003, at 20:33:36
I congratulate you, Tabitha. You show a lot more compassion than I do. Not that I'm particularly angry or anything. Except for the times he mentioned my dogs, or you and Gabbi. But you and your therapist should be proud of you for being able to come to this insight (and your church too, did you find one?).
I'm sorry Babble is causing your to doubt yourself at the moment. I've always found you to be a wonderfully civil poster, and I wouldn't let either of these incidents make you feel otherwise. Don't worry about it, and keep posting in a way that feels comfortable for you. I can't help but feel that you won't get in much trouble that way. You've been posting here for a very long time, and this was your first PBC, wasn't it? I'm just sorry that it came because of me. :(
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2003, at 18:53:22
In reply to Struggling, posted by Tabitha on September 18, 2003, at 20:33:36
> I had this whole revelation about 'attack and defend' mentality, and how that plays out in my life, and why the impostor event pushed my buttons. I applied my church teachings to it. It was a growth experience, dang it!
Good work, and thanks for sharing that here.
> The odd thing is, after over a year of posting, and never getting a PBC, lately I was feeling like I'd become more supportive. Like before I was just there to have fun, and talk to my favorites, and lately I was really wanting to just give support to everyone, even people I didn't think of as friends. My therapist said it shows I've become more supportive of myself, so I'm feeling more supportive to others.
Maybe it's related to "attack and defend"? I think posts I consider uncivil not infrequently come from wanting to support someone by defending them by attacking someone else. The more seriously you take things, the harder it may be to let something go...
Bob
Posted by madwand on September 19, 2003, at 21:18:32
In reply to Struggling, posted by Tabitha on September 18, 2003, at 20:33:36
Tabitha,
Thank you for that! That was a beautiful insight and I am glad you shared it with us. It certainly helps remind me of how easily I can give away power to others and the behavior that leads me to.
For some reason I am reminded of the old Tom Lerher quote: "There are people in this world who do not love their fellow man and I *hate* people like that!"
Posted by kara lynne on September 19, 2003, at 22:45:35
In reply to Re: Struggling » Reaper, posted by madwand on September 19, 2003, at 21:27:11
"I do not think any cybersex is wrong."
equals
"I do not think *all* cybersex is wrong."As in "I do not think that any instance of cybersex you could think of would necessarily be wrong."
Not: "I think any instance of cybersex is right."
Posted by kara lynne on September 20, 2003, at 0:48:04
In reply to any or all cybersex, posted by kara lynne on September 19, 2003, at 22:45:35
Well now this seems entirely out of context since the post I was responding to has been deleted.
Posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 9:52:29
In reply to Re: any or all cybersex , posted by kara lynne on September 20, 2003, at 0:48:04
Kara Lynn,
Yes, it appears that when Reaper's note was deleted, any note that specifically responded to him (or her?)is deleted. I notice that Sabina's note from last night (to Reaper) is gone, and one of the Admin messages that came through in my email notifications was gone by the time I clicked on.
I am of two minds of on that. I truly sympathize with Dr. Bob's desire to minimize the discord caused the original note (and its clones elsewhere) and that apparently motivated the decision to remove anything addressed to Reaper.
However, I am a bit disappointed in one way.
I had gotten the impression that a guiding principal of this board was to be supportive rather than negative, even to those who are perhaps being less than supportive themselves. I really thought that my note to Reaper and Sabina's fell into the "supportive" category and perhaps should have survived as an example of the principles we are asked to strive toward here.
I see that Sabina has reproduced one of her notes on a different thread (the one Gal started). I had seen her other one -- I guess this is the one from this morning that appeared as a "ghost" on my email notice.
I thought about that last night with respect to mine, but I do not have a copy of and trying to reproduce it from memory does not quite work for me (i.e. the "moment" is gone).
Essentially, all I said to this person is I don't know what happened in the past between him/her and Dr. Bob and thus cannot judge it either way. However, I hope that they are able to find somewhere what the sought (and were for whatever reason unable to find) here.
Posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 10:01:13
In reply to any or all cybersex, posted by kara lynne on September 19, 2003, at 22:45:35
While as you mentioned the underlying post was deleted (addressed in my other note), am still trying to figure out what you are getting at here. Could you clarify? I have read it several times, and it is still unclear whether you agree with the majority that Dr. Bob's phrasing was a bit ambiguous and thus taken out of context, or whether you believe he meant what Simcha originally (but no longer) thought he meant.
In case it was unclear from my [now missing] posting, I could see both meanings in the original quote, and to me Dr. Bob's explanation made sense (although I could understand Simcha's original reaction -- if one suffers from a condition that is sometimes not validated as "real", one can be more sensitized to apparent invalidations of that condition.)
BTW, glad to "meet" you Kara Lynn. I have seen a lot of your posts but we have not interacted before.
Posted by kara lynne on September 20, 2003, at 13:41:05
In reply to Re: any or all cybersex » kara lynne, posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 10:01:13
Hi madwand,
I may have missed some of what you're referring to--I'm sorry if I did because I like to have all the info. before I respond.There's got to be an English teacher who can say this better than I can. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anything Bob said, but trying to clarify the way the word 'any' was interpreted. To me he is obviously saying that he doesn't think *all* cybersex is necessarily bad--not that he doesn't think any of it is bad. There may be an instance (he uses for an example a couple using cybersex to enhance their lovelife) where it is not damaging anyone.
I'm still working on this one! Gotta run, but I'll read your other post more thoroughly later.
Thanks.
Posted by Sabina on September 20, 2003, at 13:43:36
In reply to Re: any or all cybersex » kara lynne, posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 10:01:13
maybe it sounds strange, but what dr. bob says or does outside this forum (regarding porn or anything else) is of absolutely no concern to me. after all, i don't answer to anyone else here concerning my words or actions off the boards.
for all we know, these boards *could* be filled with folks who are racist, homophobic, misogynistic, nazis. they could also be accused at every turn (in their personal lives) to be double-talking, two faced, jerks. still, no one is going to be blocked for any of these things unless they are brought into this space.
our brief within this forum is to abide by one man's civility rulings while sharing our experience with others. it seems simple enough and i'm okay with it. i wouldn't choose to bandy about terms like fascism to describe it, either. in my mind, to do that kind of disrespects the experience of people who know all-too-well the meaning of that word in its fullness.
until i attain a state of perfection ;) i'd just like to read, learn, and share in a place of peace and respect. dr. bob spends time and money to provide such a place, so i don't find it odd that he retains the right to run it as he sees fit and to use our posts however he sees fit.
people don't smoke in my house: it's *my* rule. if they don't like it, they are free to go home. fortunately, no one has ever insisted upon repeatedly barging into my house, running around with a lit cigarette and calling me a fascist until i manage to usher them out again.
they do, of course, have the right to tell me that they don't *want* to smoke out on the porch because it's too hot or what have you. if that ever happened, i would say, point taken, thanks for sharing, sorry for your pain...now go *outside* if you want to smoke. oddly, i don't consider myself to be a fascist.
in my view, this is dr. bob's virtual house, after a fashion. his name is on the door, if you will. even if i don't agree with his every decision, it is my decision to come in or stay outside if i disagree with the house rules.
Posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 14:36:20
In reply to Re: misquoted, out of context, whatevah....., posted by Sabina on September 20, 2003, at 13:43:36
Sabina,
For the record I agree with you. (Not sure how much of your note was directed toward me. It responded to my post but did not name me specifically). When people starting tossing around the term "fascist" (or equivalent), then things have pretty much departed from the realm of civil interaction.
I also agree that this is Dr. Bob's house where he is free to cultivate the atmosphere that he desires. My main concern about the deleted posts was that there seemed to be a bit of a conflict, in that the posts that were deleted (despite the nature of the post they were directed to) almost seemed to typify the atmosphere I thought he was trying to cultivate. Especially given the recent flap where people were PBC-ed and later blocked for responding negatively to a negative post.
However I can see where it would be a tough call either way, so it isn't really a big deal (I just thought it needed to be noted).
BTW, glad to "meet" you Sabina.
Posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 14:38:15
In reply to madwand, posted by kara lynne on September 20, 2003, at 13:41:05
Ah, now it makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
Posted by Dinah on September 20, 2003, at 15:19:34
In reply to Re: misquoted, out of context, whatevah..... » Sabina, posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 14:36:20
Sorry about that. The first time someone reregisters and posts while blocked, I think Dr. Bob just doubles the block. After that, posts by the same poster who reregisters while blocked are deleted. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in blocking since the poster would just be continuing to post, under a series of names. And unfortunately all the posts responding to that post in the thread are also deleted for the sake of continuity. I've lost some darn good posts myself that way (she said modestly) :). As you can see, some people have started a separate thread to discuss the post (which would properly be here on Administration) and so far Dr. Bob has seemed to leave those posts up.
Posted by Sabina on September 20, 2003, at 17:06:28
In reply to Re: misquoted, out of context, whatevah..... » Sabina, posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 14:36:20
it wasn't really directed toward you, kara, or anyone in particular. i was just sharing my latest thoughts on one facet of what I'm struggling with here.
nice to meet you, too. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2003, at 20:20:27
In reply to Re: any or all cybersex (and to Dr. Bob) » kara lynne, posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 9:52:29
> I thought about that last night with respect to mine, but I do not have a copy of and trying to reproduce it from memory does not quite work for me (i.e. the "moment" is gone).
I see what you mean, thanks for being supportive, and sorry about your reply. In the future, if you think a post may be deleted later, you could, to be on the safe side, start a new thread with your reply instead of posting it as a follow-up...
Bob
Posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 20:33:53
In reply to Re: note fell into the supportive category, posted by Dr. Bob on September 20, 2003, at 20:20:27
Dr. Bob,
No problem! (And not meaning to ignore Dinah's response, which also made a lot of sense). I will do that in the future (form a separate thread). Keep up the good work!
This is the end of the thread.
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