![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 7:21:25
Lou,
I'm sure nobody means to defame you at all. I'm sure no one means to hurt your feelings, if you feel hurt. I know you are a valuable poster here and I've seen some of your supportive posts to people. I think one was to Music, a pastor's wife. I'm certain that brought her great comfort.
But I see a tone of frustration in your posts. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But it bothers me when someone is hurting, and frustration is just another way of hurting.
As I'm sure you know, there is SO much to communication that we cannot use here to express ourselves. No facial expressions, no body language, no tone of voice. We have to rely on the precision with which we choose our words, and also know that a group of words is going to have a *tone* to them. And often, this tone can be misconstrued. And just as often, I think, we can write something that frustrates others without meaning to.
For example, I sincerely don't want to offend you in any way with this post. But perhaps the words I've chosen aren't conveying that, and you might feel offended or hurt by what I'm writing. Or think I'm being condescending, which I'm not. If I am frustrating or offending you -- or anyone else - I try to take a look at my writing style and try to improve on it. We are all flawed, there's no sin in improvement. :-)
The best thing my therapist ever told me was that you cannot control the actions of others. You can only control what *you* do. If you are frustrated at all with how people respond to some of your posts, or feel hurt by them in any way, I might be able to offer some suggestions of what *you* can do to make the situation more comfortable to *you*.
I'm no expert, not by a long shot, but I do write for a living.
Personal question. I've see a lot of your posts offering advice to others, which is great. But most people here are also *looking* for advice and support. I never see you ask for any. Do you ever want to?
Good luck with everything,
Susan
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 7:31:36
In reply to Lou - Civility and the Drawbacks of Writing, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 7:21:25
Susan J,
You wrote,[...I'm sure nobody means to defame you at all...].
Could you clarify how you made that conclusion, for one would have to examine over 2 years of this forum. Have you done that?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 7:37:21
In reply to Lou - Civility and the Drawbacks of Writing, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 7:21:25
Suesan J,
You wrote,[...you are a valuable poster here...]
Thank you for writing that. My point of view is that all posts here are valuable and can be used for support and education.
Lou
Posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 7:42:28
In reply to Lou's reply to Susan J's post » Susan J, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 7:31:36
> Susan J,
> You wrote,[...I'm sure nobody means to defame you at all...].
> Could you clarify how you made that conclusion, for one would have to examine over 2 years of this forum. Have you done that?
> Lou<<<< Hahahahah! Thanks, Lou. You made my day with your post.
I'm pulling myself out of this thread now for my own mental health. I tried with great sincerity to help end the frustration I felt from these posts. My people skills aren't as good as I thought.
I wish you the best.
Susan
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 7:48:38
In reply to Lou - Civility and the Drawbacks of Writing, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 7:21:25
Susan J,
You wrote,
[...I write for a living...].
What field of writing are you employed in at this time? I have a rare neurological condition that interfers with my ability to write and spell correctly. I am disabled and do not belive that people here have to be language experts to post here. I am writing Washington to get a rulling based on the American's with Disabilities Act to see if this forum complys.
Lou
Posted by Simcha on August 22, 2003, at 9:26:31
In reply to Lou's reply to Susan J's post-WRT » Susan J, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 7:48:38
Lou,
You write:
>[I have a rare neurological condition that interfers with my ability to write and spell correctly.]I'm amazed! Everything you write seems to be spelled correctly and your grammar is good. I'm not an English Professor and still I do a lot of writing in Grad School. I find your posts very clear and I believe you articulate well.
I'm not denying your disability. Whatever this disability is, if it makes writing and spelling difficult then I am truly amazed at your clarity and writing skills. I have found your posts to be more clear and spelled better than many I have read on lots of boards. (Not just here.)
[You wrote:
I am writing Washington to get a rulling based on the American's with Disabilities Act to see if this forum complys.]Can you please let us know what compliance with the American's with Disabilities Act would look like for you on this board? I know that Dr. Bob has a virtual dictionary below. Does that help you with your spelling?
I know I rely on Word 2000 to help me with my spelling and grammar for posts on this board. And sometimes I go to the Writing Assistance Center at my University with papers I write to help me with my papers.
Would you want Dr. Bob to add a grammar check like Word 2000 has? Would that help?
Just curious because I really don't know what your disability is or how the board would have to be brought into complianced.
Honestly, I believe that your grammar and spelling are great, and I'm amazed that you are able to post with such clarity in light of the fact that you have a disability that prevents you from doing so.
With Blessings and Sincere Compliments,
Simcha
Posted by jlo820 on August 22, 2003, at 14:41:18
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Susan J's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 7:42:28
Lou wrote.."Could you clarify how you made that conclusion, for one would have to examine over 2 years of this forum. Have you done that?"
I think this is sarcasm and I demand that action be taken!!!
Always civil,
jlo820
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 15:08:07
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Susan J's post, posted by jlo820 on August 22, 2003, at 14:41:18
Jlo 820,
You wrote that my request to Susan J for clarification was in your thinking sarcastic. On the contrary. Susan J is representing herself as an attorny and it is my understanding that an attorney would have facts to base a conclusion on and she said that she made a conclusion that she did not tghink that anyone was making defaming statements to me. That cou;d mean that her being an attorney that she could have reserched the site thgrough the serch function to see for herslf and I made a request to her asking if she did. She wrote back that she did not. That means that her conclusion was not based on her actually examiming posts that go back 2 years or so and let me know that her conclusion was not based on that which was important to me for if an attorny is going to say something, they useually are not going to say something that they do not have some foundation to rest on and if it was true that she did do such an examination, then that would be something that would be extreamly relevant to that discussion.
Lou
Posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 15:24:40
In reply to Lou's response to jlo 820's post » jlo820, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 15:08:07
>>On the contrary. Susan J is representing herself as an attorny and it is my understanding that an attorney would have facts to base a conclusion on and she said that she made a conclusion that she did not tghink that anyone was making defaming statements to me.
<<That's correct, Lou. I do not think anyone has written anything about you that has injured your reputation.
>> That cou;d mean that her being an attorney that she could have reserched the site thgrough the serch function to see for herslf and I made a request to her asking if she did. She wrote back that she did not.<<That is incorrect, Lou. I never responded to that specific request. I, in fact, have read this site extensively. Additionally, it's very easy to search by poster's name so it's very easy to trace threads that you have posted to.
>>for if an attorny is going to say something, they useually are not going to say something that they do not have some foundation to rest on<<In all honesty, I find that to be a hurtful comment. I think I can reasonably infer that you are criticizing my legal skills. I must clarify that I am not legally acting as an attorney on these boards. I merely stated my profession so that people would have a reasonable idea of how and why I'm drawing certain conclusions. Just like Larry the chemist. I always find his posts on the medication board to be very interesting and on point.
My comments were based on these recent threads about defamation, requests for determination, civility, and outright insults. I researched these threads very carefully, and put a lot of CARE AND THOUGHT into my posts so that I would not offend you or anyone else.
>>and if it was true that she did do such an examination, then that would be something that would be extreamly relevant to that discussion.<<I've read back to about March 2003, and I've read a statistically-relevant portion of posts from 2001 and 2002. You can take that as you will.
I can take constructive criticism as well as the next guy, but please don't post untrue things about me.
Susan
Posted by jlo820 on August 22, 2003, at 15:41:10
In reply to That's Not True » Lou Pilder, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 15:24:40
Quick! Get the duct tape!!
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 15:48:06
In reply to That's Not True » Lou Pilder, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 15:24:40
Susan J,
Let us look at your response to my request to you asking if you reserched the site back 2 years to make the conclusion that no body was defaming me.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/253022.
if that is incorrect, try:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/253622.html
Your reply to my request as to if you reserched the site back 2 years to make the conclusion that nobody ... was
hahahahah! Thanks Lou
Now it is my understanding that when an attorny answers in an evasive manner that it stands that in this case the attornet did not reaserch 2 years to make the conclusion.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 15:54:20
In reply to Lou's reply to Susan J's post » Susan J, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 15:48:06
Susan J,
Try this for the corrected link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/253022.html
Lou
Posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 16:01:21
In reply to Lou's reply to Susan J's post » Susan J, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 15:48:06
> Susan J,
> Let us look at your response to my request to you asking if you reserched the site back 2 years to make the conclusion that no body was defaming me.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/253022.
> if that is incorrect, try:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/253622.html
> Your reply to my request as to if you reserched the site back 2 years to make the conclusion that nobody ... was
> hahahahah! Thanks Lou
> Now it is my understanding that when an attorny answers in an evasive manner that it stands that in this case the attornet did not reaserch 2 years to make the conclusion.
> Lou<<<<<Those links don't work. Here is the post:
> Susan J,
> You wrote,[...I'm sure nobody means to defame you at all...].
> Could you clarify how you made that conclusion, for one would have to examine over 2 years of this forum. Have you done that?
> Lou<<<< Hahahahah! Thanks, Lou. You made my day with your post.
Lou, I laughed in that post because I really, truly TRIED to communicate with you and offer my assistance to you IF you were feeling frustrated and hurt by the way some posters may have responded to your posts. I sincerely reached out to you, and your subsequent parsing of my post, asking for clarification, was remniscent of the tone you have conveyed in other "determination/defamation" posts. I LAUGHED BECAUSE THE JOKE WAS ON ME, not because your inquiry as to my knowledge of this board was funny. But instead because I tried to reach out to you in a constructive way and I was rebuffed.> Now it is my understanding that when an attorny answers in an evasive manner that it stands that in this case the attornet did not reaserch 2 years to make the conclusion.
> Lou
<<I did not answer in an evasive manner. I did not answer you at all. I am hurt by your tone, if not your words. Again, please do not insult my competence as an attorney. I was not, am not, and will never function as an attorney on this site. I'm a HUMAN BEING with a legal background.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 16:11:23
In reply to That is Insulting to Me » Lou Pilder, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 16:01:21
Susan J,
It is my understanding that when someone represents themselves publiv\cally, in this case as a lawyer, that they have the same professional responsibilities as if they were in practice. Now when you did not give me a straight answer to my request, I took your answer as unprofessional and as a default to my request just as when I ask for clarification from posters and they do not respond. I consider a non-response, or an eveasive respons, for I asked if you did and did not get an answer thatanswered my request for clarification. Instaed, I got hahahaha.
Well to determine if youer conduct as an attorney is acceptable to the profession, I sugget that we submit this to the bar assosiation in your state, not to anyone here including the moderwtor who is a psychiatrist, not an attorny. I am submitting this to an attorny in columbus Ohio now and asking him to arbitrate this. If he says thaT YOU CAN ANSWE ,E THAT WAY ON A PUBLIC FORUM while you represent yourself as an attorney, then I will apologise to you immediatly. But it is my underatanding, that an attorney does not shed their prfea\ssional code whebn they walk throught the gates of a public internet forum
Lou
Posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 16:37:13
In reply to Lou's response to Susan's post, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 16:11:23
> Susan J,
> It is my understanding that when someone represents themselves publiv\cally, in this case as a lawyer, that they have the same professional responsibilities as if they were in practice. Now when you did not give me a straight answer to my request, I took your answer as unprofessional and as a default to my request just as when I ask for clarification from posters and they do not respond. I consider a non-response, or an eveasive respons, for I asked if you did and did not get an answer thatanswered my request for clarification. Instaed, I got hahahaha.>>I responded that way because I thought you were being mean to me. I have stated your words have been hurtful to me. An apology from you for hurting me would have been nice, gallant, and civil.
> Well to determine if youer conduct as an attorney is acceptable to the profession, I sugget that we submit this to the bar assosiation in your state, not to anyone here including the moderwtor who is a psychiatrist, not an attorny.<<I am not practicing law here. I don't think a reasonable person would ever infer such. In addition, by posting to this site you have agreed to Dr. Bob's requirements and have read his terms. Included in these is an FAQ that addresses whom to trust and the quality of information provided.
"You can find a lot of information on the Internet. In general, that's good, but it does also leave you with the task of separating the wheat from the chaff. Before you act on something you read -- even if you read it here :-) -- take a moment first to consider the quality of that information. You probably already do that automatically to some extent, but the links below may also help."
You have been specifically warned not to rely on the information you have found posted here.
>>I am submitting this to an attorny in columbus Ohio now and asking him to arbitrate this. If he says thaT YOU CAN ANSWE ,E THAT WAY ON A PUBLIC FORUM while you represent yourself as an attorney, then I will apologise to you immediatly. But it is my underatanding, that an attorney does not shed their prfea\ssional code whebn they walk throught the gates of a public internet forum
> Lou<<I have not violated any rule of the Model Code of Professional Conduct, ABA or otherwise. The entire purpose of this board is to provide education and support and held to a "reasonable person" standard, all of my comments fall into this category. I am not practicing law, Lou. I'm here as a person with major depressive disorder, seeking support and trying to give it, just like everyone else.
Why are you here? Please clarify, because I truly don't understand.
Posted by jlo820 on August 22, 2003, at 16:45:24
In reply to What Did I Do to Make You Attack Me? » Lou Pilder, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 16:37:13
Susan -
Don't get frustrated...it's not worth it, especially with respect to this.
There are things (including people) in life we will never be able to understand.
Besides, I think you might have been defamed. We will have to get a determination on that.
jlo820
Posted by jlo820 on August 22, 2003, at 16:46:25
In reply to Lou's response to jlo 820's post » jlo820, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2003, at 15:08:07
>> You wrote that my request to Susan J for clarification was in your thinking sarcastic.
Yes, it was. That IS what I said.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2003, at 17:03:57
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Susan J's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Susan J on August 22, 2003, at 7:42:28
> > Susan J,
> > You wrote,[...I'm sure nobody means to defame you at all...].
> > Could you clarify how you made that conclusion, for one would have to examine over 2 years of this forum. Have you done that?
> > Lou
>
> <<<< Hahahahah! Thanks, Lou. You made my day with your post.
>
> I'm pulling myself out of this thread now for my own mental health. I tried with great sincerity to help end the frustration I felt from these posts. My people skills aren't as good as I thought.
>
> I wish you the best.
>
> SusanSusan, I just wanted to say that I think your people skills are great. It's the medium that is flawed. Your considerable skill with language is negated by the absence of all the other tools you probably use every day, to great effect: inflection, tone, volume, eye contact, body language, and so on.
It's just so darn easy to be misunderstood in a text-only forum, that lacks even the immediacy of something like a chat room.
Lar
P.S. I'm glad you find my chemist-head alter-ego valuable.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.