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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
Ive come close to applying for disability at work. It can be so hard to sit there, to think, to do anything. And then on friday i received a warning for my performance and days off. So i figured its time.
Then a friend reminded me how bad i get when i dont have work to occupy some of my time. Having no motivation and watching the clock isnt the answer. There really isnt one.
Maybe for the moment i should apply for short term disability because ive already been fired from my last 2 jobs. But i go coo-coo in a different way when im not working. what if i take a month, 2, or 3 off and come back to the same thing.
And unfortunately it would not be acting as a period to "seek treatment" and get well. My pdoc said that i've basically finished the med game. There is nothing else to play. I am trying to find a new one, which may not amt to much.
Advice? I go back and forth on the lesser of the two evils, but i may end up getting fired anyway.
I suffer through work, come home and get thru the nite. Please dont tell me i need to find something i like to do. I want to want something to do! And when even people from a psych community tell me that, i feel like even more of a loser.
Thanks.
Posted by Emme_V2 on December 10, 2012, at 4:01:15
In reply to miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
> Ive come close to applying for disability at work. It can be so hard to sit there, to think, to do anything. And then on friday i received a warning for my performance and days off. So i figured its time.
> Then a friend reminded me how bad i get when i dont have work to occupy some of my time. Having no motivation and watching the clock isnt the answer. There really isnt one.
> Maybe for the moment i should apply for short term disability because ive already been fired from my last 2 jobs. But i go coo-coo in a different way when im not working. what if i take a month, 2, or 3 off and come back to the same thing.
> And unfortunately it would not be acting as a period to "seek treatment" and get well. My pdoc said that i've basically finished the med game. There is nothing else to play. I am trying to find a new one, which may not amt to much.
> Advice? I go back and forth on the lesser of the two evils, but i may end up getting fired anyway.
> I suffer through work, come home and get thru the nite. Please dont tell me i need to find something i like to do. I want to want something to do! And when even people from a psych community tell me that, i feel like even more of a loser.
> Thanks.Have you disclosed to your employer that you have a health issue? Can you take FMLA? Would working reduced hours help you keep structure and allow you to get your health back enough to do your job better? It sounds like you need a good productive discussion with your management and HR folks about some options. Doing so might salvage your job in the long run. If you are really about to get fired, you may have nothing to lose.
Have you been for a consultation with anyone at your nearest major teaching medical center? I've recently gone for consultation at a major teaching hospital with a superb psychiatry department and got some completely surprising suggestions for treatments to try.
Good luck.
Posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2012, at 9:01:24
In reply to miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
It's tough but I was told not to work anymore and loved my job.Long story short I listened to the pdoc and it was a mistake. I should have kept working. After a year at home it gets very boring. Phillipa
Posted by poser938 on December 10, 2012, at 12:46:03
In reply to miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
You may want to make a decision quickly. It can take as long wait tyo get disability after aplying. I aplied 6 months ago and was denied. I just talked to a lawyer last week and he's going to help me repeal the decision. He said it could be an 18 month wait in all. Or you could posubly get a quick decision but thts doubtul. Depression isn't taken seriously as something like cancer.
Posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 13:00:29
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by poser938 on December 10, 2012, at 12:46:03
Because its through work it wouldnt be as difficult to approve through hr.
It is a bettet option to try and talk to mt supervisor, but i dont think she would be understanding.
Posted by Emme_V2 on December 10, 2012, at 14:36:28
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 13:00:29
> Because its through work it wouldnt be as difficult to approve through hr.
> It is a bettet option to try and talk to mt supervisor, but i dont think she would be understanding.Why do you think she would not be understanding? Have you discussed this with her before and had a negative experience? You may be right that she won't be understanding, or you may be pleasantly surprised.
It's obviously tricky to decide whether and how to discuss such issues with management. I think indicating clearly that you are being responsible with your medical care and discussing what you think you need work-wise (e.g., reduced time, some time off, FMLA, short term disability) to be able to do your job well for them in the long term is good. This should be taken by management as seriously and reasonably as if you were asking to accommodate treatment for any other serious illness.
Do you have anyone in your organization (a friend or a mentor) whom you trust and with whom you can speak confidentially about this to help you decide how to proceed?
Good luck.
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 10, 2012, at 16:04:07
In reply to miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
oh my dear, dear friend. what a hard choice you have to make. I can tell you what I think you should do, but if I do, remember it is YOUR choice and only you know deep in your heart what the right choice is.
If it were me, I'd go the disability route hands down. and you say it wouldn't be to work on your health, especially after that dingbat pdoc you had has actually make you feel worse. I swear he has. You ABSOLUTELY need to focus on finding a new and much better pdoc. there are always different solutions, as I found out when I posted my feelings that I had given up and then woke this morning to find out all kinds of different meds and combos had been suggested. I now have more hope again. I cannot state this strongly enough, so please forgive the caps, YOU FINDING A NEW, CARING, VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE PDOC WHO IS USED TO WORKING WITH TREATMENT RESISTANT PATIENTS ABSOLUTELY *IS* TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF AND IS AN ACT THAT PROVES YOU ARE TRYING TO BEAT THIS DISEASE. Take time off, make that the focus of your life, and work as hard as your depression will let you to work and work and work until you find a gem of a pdoc. Literally shop for one. It really makes ALL the difference in the world. And be sure to post here too. Try what I did, tell everyone every single med you've ever been on. You'll be surprised just as I was to see all the recommendations you get. Lastly, I know you are worried you are gonna go nuts without doing anything all day. I say make finding an awesome pdoc, and a great therapist too, your WORK. Take in just how very important it is, and make it your mission to find that right doc. To really find a good one often takes months or years. But if you have time off, and can focus all the extra time on getting a better doc, you should find one even sooner. L, I am very serious about this. It is much more important than I think you can imagine.
But, as I said, it is ultimately your decision. but holy crap, I sure wrote a lot about what I think would be best for you to do! Seriously thogh, you know yourself best, and only you can make the decisonion the end. Try to find a very peaceful place and time and let your mind wander, and see which path looks best to you; feel in your gut what makes the most sense to you. OK, the weirdo is done talkin :D
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 10, 2012, at 16:09:04
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability » alchemy, posted by Emme_V2 on December 10, 2012, at 14:36:28
P.S. Emme has some very good suggestions :)
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 10, 2012, at 17:12:48
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by ChicagoKat on December 10, 2012, at 16:09:04
I know everybodys experience is dfferent, but most studies end up showing that people who continue with work fare better than those who go on disability. This is of course talking about statistical averages, and not individuals, you it needs somt thought to apply it to your situation, howveer, if you could keep working even part time, I think it would be better for you.
I'd ask for a referal to another psychiatrist to review the meds you have tried and to check out any "end of the road" approaches that your current doctor has missed as a matter of urgency.
I'm thinking Parnate + nortriptyline
Nardil + Nortriptyline
Effexor 300mg + Remeron 45mg
stuff like that
Posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 21:57:22
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability » alchemy, posted by Emme_V2 on December 10, 2012, at 14:36:28
Thank u all so much for ur input. I do remember asking if i could go part-time and my sup said no. But maybe intermittent flma? My company is big enough. Even IF i do manage to keep my job, im already in trouble for time off and apts. And im so worn out at the end of the day i am worthless. So i at least need some time off to have dr apts. Part time is ideal for me. But going on my companys short term dis would pay more than a reg pt job and still have access to benefits. Today it seemed like more was piled on me and her expectations are higher now because i am suppose to really prove myself. My head hurts and i want to throw up.
Posted by papillon2 on December 11, 2012, at 4:56:51
In reply to miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
Could you do volunteer work instead?
Posted by Emme_V2 on December 11, 2012, at 6:35:44
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 21:57:22
> Thank u all so much for ur input. I do remember asking if i could go part-time and my sup said no. But maybe intermittent flma? My company is big enough. Even IF i do manage to keep my job, im already in trouble for time off and apts. And im so worn out at the end of the day i am worthless. So i at least need some time off to have dr apts. Part time is ideal for me. But going on my companys short term dis would pay more than a reg pt job and still have access to benefits. Today it seemed like more was piled on me and her expectations are higher now because i am suppose to really prove myself. My head hurts and i want to throw up.
Okay, it sounds like you've may have a rather nasty work situation. They would not pile more work on top of someone going through chemo, would they? This is completely unacceptable. I'm no expert, but it would seem to me that going to medical appointments might constitute reasonable accommodation under the ADA. Have you talked to HR at all? What's your HR department like?
Intermittent FMLA that you use for appointments and such would be a good solution. Also, I don't know if your company does options other than part time - maybe it just depends what your idea of reduced time is. My management has allowed me to decrease to a 4-day week for a couple of months when I've been having a hard time. That little bit of reduced time made a huge difference.
Also, how flexible is your work environment? If I am tired in the late afternoon, I go home a little early, but people know I compensate by doing some work in the evening after I've had a break. (And yeah, they have my cell phone number if they need me.) So some of the accommodation is working with your own energy levels so that you can get things done.
I have allowed a couple of managers in addition to my supervisor to know what my diagnosis is. I did so with trepidation, but I wanted to not be a mystery to them, especially since I think they can tell when I'm tired and worn. They unequivocally indicated that they will work with me, and they have followed through. I know this type of response is not going to be universal, but there are enlightened people out there. I hope there's someone at your company who might advocate on your behalf if they know what the situation is and what you need.
It's tough to have to navigate such a difficult situation while you feel crummy.
Good luck.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 11, 2012, at 20:28:47
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability » alchemy, posted by Emme_V2 on December 11, 2012, at 6:35:44
If your supervisor is being unfair, go to the next level up, and be as open as you can be with that manager about what you're going through and where you're at. A lot of middle managers are compotent at the tasks they manage, but arnt good managers, bring in a more senior manager and somebody from HR and ask whatt hey can do to help avoid losing you.
Posted by novelagent on December 13, 2012, at 15:17:44
In reply to miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
If you haven't tried Emsam, you're not finished yet. I tried seemingly everything for a year and s half of depression until I out of desperation bought selegiline from snti-aging systems.com in 2004. This was befor emsam got approved for the U.S, so you had to get it abroad.
They mailed it from s country my roommate says the U.S. State Dept. is not on speaking terms with. But it came in blister packs with sanofi-whatever pharmaceuticals, so I trusted it. I improved the same day without noticing it, although my two professors separately pointed out to the class I was smiling, In both classes, it was during a mentioning of something having to do with sexual devisnce of some sort, or something, I spaced out.
anyhow, after a week, It hi me: I hadn't craved sleep for the prior week. That was huge, Before then, I would crave going back to my bed while I was in class like it was heroin. I combined it with d,l-PA (phenylthalamine), which explains the sudden onset of efficacy.
The theory is DLPA ordinarily is metabolized so fast and used up after just s few minutes, it never quite has a chance to build up to levels sufficient to make much of sn impact as a supplement. But combine it with seligiline, and it is basically trapped in a closed loop a bit, and there's more of a chance for it to build up to levels that allow for noradeline, which Wellbutrin targets, and dopamine, which affects pleasure. I had anhedonia with my depression.
If you think you're miserable now, wait untik you're on disability, and you actually have even more time to brood over your depression. The best thing for depression, and the way to make it out, is to just lose yourself in something you can feel passionate about, or at least keeps you too busy for much introspection.
Have you tried volunteering after work? It can be very rewardingto help others, and you feel so good doing it, it's almost a selfish act. It certainly beats obsessing about your mood while on the Internet or TV (you in the plural sense; I speak from experience). The meds only go half way, so it sounds like you're trying to bet on a horse to finish that is only intended for a relay race.
Have you considered talking to a therapist about this? They can certainly tell you how f'ed up their disability benefits-receiving patients are. It would do you no favors. I'm on disability, but it's also a temporary thing for me, and I'm a full-time student, Once I have a degree, I have no intention of living off of $100 a week for all of my non-rent expenses (my $800 check goes straight to rent, and the $100 is charity from my family).
You'll have nothing to do, no incentive to try to get better by doing something useful, your depression will worsen, and you won't even be able to afford cable or eat out. And that's assuming you have Aflac and regular disability benefits from your employer and social security approves you after the standard 2 1/2 year wait. Also, it takes 2 years to get Medicare; before thst, you must rely on Medicaid, unless you have assets over $2000, which I think disqualifies you for Medicaid, I'm not sure, ask someone.
Good luck finding a psychiatrist who accepts Medicaid-- they don't exist. Same goes for Medicare, because Medicare has gotten bitchy to psychiatrists about reimbursements, and there's so much demand for patients who have insurance that reimburses more with less hassle, there's no incentive for docs to keep it. I'm in Massachusetts, which has an odd combintion of having the most psychiatrists per capita of any state, and also the hardest-to-book psychiatrists snywhere. Most don't accept insurance at all, and fees range from $200-$300 per 15 min appointments,
> Ive come close to applying for disability at work. It can be so hard to sit there, to think, to do anything. And then on friday i received a warning for my performance and days off. So i figured its time.
> Then a friend reminded me how bad i get when i dont have work to occupy some of my time. Having no motivation and watching the clock isnt the answer. There really isnt one.
> Maybe for the moment i should apply for short term disability because ive already been fired from my last 2 jobs. But i go coo-coo in a different way when im not working. what if i take a month, 2, or 3 off and come back to the same thing.
> And unfortunately it would not be acting as a period to "seek treatment" and get well. My pdoc said that i've basically finished the med game. There is nothing else to play. I am trying to find a new one, which may not amt to much.
> Advice? I go back and forth on the lesser of the two evils, but i may end up getting fired anyway.
> I suffer through work, come home and get thru the nite. Please dont tell me i need to find something i like to do. I want to want something to do! And when even people from a psych community tell me that, i feel like even more of a loser.
> Thanks.
Posted by novelagent on December 13, 2012, at 15:23:55
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by poser938 on December 10, 2012, at 12:46:03
I hope it was pro bono, because those scumbag for-profit disability lawyers take out 25% of your disability check for your entire lifetime. I was lucky, and my brother's wife is a lawyer who did it for me, She went to Harvard Law and use to volunteer helping people with their disability claims.
Although I also had a doctor who never had anyone require an appeal before "the way I write them" he said, and I wound up not needing an appeal. 90% are denied the first go-around. Even without needing an appeal, it still took a year and a half or two years.
> You may want to make a decision quickly. It can take as long wait tyo get disability after aplying. I aplied 6 months ago and was denied. I just talked to a lawyer last week and he's going to help me repeal the decision. He said it could be an 18 month wait in all. Or you could posubly get a quick decision but thts doubtul. Depression isn't taken seriously as something like cancer.
>
Posted by novelagent on December 13, 2012, at 15:43:41
In reply to miserable at work vs miserable on disability, posted by alchemy on December 10, 2012, at 0:37:56
dude,
drugs don't actually work. get transcranial magnetic stimulation therapy, Call around to teaching hospitals, and if that doesn't work, do a google search for it in your area, or contact the vendor that sells the device and ask for a doc or clinic/hospital in your area that they have sold to.
it actually works. It seems to have efficacy just as high as electro-shock therapy? I'm not sure, although I know it's a high efficacy. Your insurance may cover it, since I think medicare covers it now. I'm not sure, call your insurance co.
If that doesn't work, or you're impatient, don't knock ECT until you try it. I went to McLean Hospital, the number one ranked psych hospital in the country, and they use it all the time with great results. I swear, I am not exaggerating, I saw a guy in my ward that was so depressed, he walked like a hunchback with his head down. It was like seeing a human version of Wilbur, He must have been In a deep depression for several years without a break of luck at all, I mean none. No one sees someone as severe as he was unless they've seen him.
But one day, I saw him smiling, and he held his head up high and his back was perfectly straight. He had his first round of ECT earlier that day. I saw another person, a kid who was so depressed he turned to hard drugs, and he said he hadn't felt better in ages since the day before, when he had his first round of ECT.
You get anesthesia, so there's no pain, and the only real side effect is some memory loss, but it's only for memories formed within the prior couple of weeks, and if you're depressed, you probsbly haven't bothered to do much that would have resulted in anything worth remembering anyhow. The ones who had ECT said their memory just felt fuzzy, but it was only for a little bit, like the day after, and then they were fine. it didn't seem to trouble them much. They were just so grateful to have their lives back.
You can't live your life in fear of what might happen if you do stuff that is necessary to get better, Life is short, and the top doctors in the world are the ones who are using ECT for their worst cases. If you can afford it, you may want to travel to McLean (which accepts insurance) and have it done there. All their docs are Harvard Med teaching docs. They're right outside of Belmont. Mitt Romney recently bought s house on land recently sold that use to be part of the McLean campus. It's a beutiful campus. The food is great, too.
They fix problems after every other doc throws up their hands, and they have an expectation that they are capable of solving even the most hopeless cases, because they do it all the time. It's where you go when docs have given up on you. The fact your doc has only tried meds and won't suggest trying anything else says a lot about how pathetic he is,
Posted by novelagent on December 13, 2012, at 16:02:27
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability » alchemy, posted by Emme_V2 on December 10, 2012, at 14:36:28
Just ask for some time off and check into an institution. It may be difficult to get admitted into a hospital, since most of the time insurance says no unless there's suicidal ideation or psychosis, so you may have to be creative with your symptoms or have a doc good at doing paperwork that gets things done,
Ask your doc about a hospital stay at a teaching hospital in your area, or see if it's feasible for him to admit you to McLean in Belmont, Massachusetts. You don't need to go to an ER, because he has admitting privileges to certain hospitals, and tht lets you in the side door.
Hospital docs see patients whose doctors gave up on them a long time ago all the time, and they try things that actually get things done.
You should talk to your HR department about having some time off for a clinical evaluation over a couple of weeks, and I would keep a contact number of someone in HR on your phone to call in case your stay is slightly longer than expected. People sre very understanding about hospital stays, more than you think.
I was kicked out of my school, and switched to the night school to make up deficiencies on my transcript, and a hospital release form I gave to my school's housing department director was enough for her to make the incredible exception of letting me stay in dorms I had no right to stay in for 2 full semesters.
Also, hospitalization is incredibly liberating, oddly enough, Suddenly, no matter how stressful your obligations are, you can just hit the pause button, and everyone accomodates you like crazy, more than you'd ever expect, and you can just focus on getting better. No one's ever been fired right after coming back from the hospital. It's a huge life line on so many levels-- access to incredibly insightful doctors, the best medical treatments, and the documentstion necessary to be sble to hit that pause button for your life.
You deserve the relief with sll you've been through, and it's just not worth it to keep feeling the way you feel. Life is short.
I'm not lelling you this, but in case your insurance sucks, it's important you know that doctors require hearing a specific plan of suicide in order to compell hospitalization; I'm not sure if that's also the standard required for insurance to approve hospitalization. But as a voluntary patient, you have certsin privikeges not extended to those eho don't agree to be voluntarily committed.
> > Because its through work it wouldnt be as difficult to approve through hr.
> > It is a bettet option to try and talk to mt supervisor, but i dont think she would be understanding.
>
> Why do you think she would not be understanding? Have you discussed this with her before and had a negative experience? You may be right that she won't be understanding, or you may be pleasantly surprised.
>
> It's obviously tricky to decide whether and how to discuss such issues with management. I think indicating clearly that you are being responsible with your medical care and discussing what you think you need work-wise (e.g., reduced time, some time off, FMLA, short term disability) to be able to do your job well for them in the long term is good. This should be taken by management as seriously and reasonably as if you were asking to accommodate treatment for any other serious illness.
>
> Do you have anyone in your organization (a friend or a mentor) whom you trust and with whom you can speak confidentially about this to help you decide how to proceed?
>
> Good luck.
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 20:40:43
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability » poser938, posted by novelagent on December 13, 2012, at 15:23:55
Poser here in NC was told the max a lawyer can take is $6000. That's all. Phillipa
Posted by Zyprexa on December 21, 2012, at 21:49:54
In reply to Re: miserable at work vs miserable on disability » novelagent, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2012, at 20:40:43
I got on disability in less than a year. 6 months to wait to apply, then a few months later there was a large sum of money in the bank. It does take 2 years to get the medicare from when you were disabled. First try no lawyer. Just a good long time doc.
At the time I needed a desperate break from work, longer than the 2 weeks they offered. So SSDI was a life saver. Because no mater how hard I tried I could not get a job. I was just too unstable.
True that SSDI does not pay a living sum of money. You will have to find a cheap living arangment, or get a part time job, which is all I seem to be able to handle now.
ECTs are horable. erased all memory for most of the 20 years before. 15 years later and I still have a lot of gaps. Drugs do work! I recently took a decrease in some of my APs and it was horrible. Now the doc is slowly going back up in doses. I also medicate with alcohol, which helps a lot, wheather or not anyone wants to hear that including my pdoc.
This is the end of the thread.
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