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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maoi_wowee on April 1, 2009, at 10:39:25
After a couple of year break from Parnate, in which time I went on Nardil and Marplan, I am now back on the drug. I have been back on Parnate for a few weeks now and am up to 50mg/day (my best dose before was 70mg/day, so Im working my way back up to that).
Two of my most pronounced side effects on Parnate used to be major insomnia and an increase in libido. This time around, though, I am finding that my sex drive is COMPLETELY GONE and, rather than having insomnia, Im tired and sleeping all of the time
Its so odd b/c this is the opposite of what it was before.anyone experience anything like this before or have any ideas what is causing this and if/when it will go away?
Oh, Im also gaining weight instead of losing itanother odd one for Parnate.
Posted by mav27 on April 1, 2009, at 11:16:50
In reply to Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!?, posted by maoi_wowee on April 1, 2009, at 10:39:25
Yeah same experiance for me. When i first tried it 6 years ago it felt like i was on speed, when i recently tried it a couple times in the last 2 years it just makes me sleep.
Posted by maoi_wowee on April 1, 2009, at 11:27:31
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!?, posted by mav27 on April 1, 2009, at 11:16:50
I'll add here that it isn't a matter of a change in formula or different batch of pills as I'm still using my original pills...
Posted by myco on April 1, 2009, at 12:00:17
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!?, posted by maoi_wowee on April 1, 2009, at 11:27:31
Have you changed changed from nardil or marplan to parnate before this time? There are studies to suggest that there are "hindering" effects left behind from one maoi that may effect another. I think it was from nardil to parnate. I remember a study about pretreatment also with parnate before going to nardil (i think this direction) alters/effects the GABA ability of nardil to be less effective.
Ive never switched maois, nardil is my first. Did you give it a good long while before switching?
> I'll add here that it isn't a matter of a change in formula or different batch of pills as I'm still using my original pills...
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2009, at 12:57:30
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!? » maoi_wowee, posted by myco on April 1, 2009, at 12:00:17
Seems quite a few for various reasons have returned to SSRI's from the Maoi's why is that if they are the strongest? Or aren't they? Phillipa
Posted by myco on April 1, 2009, at 13:10:38
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!?, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2009, at 12:57:30
> Seems quite a few for various reasons have returned to SSRI's from the Maoi's why is that if they are the strongest? Or aren't they? Phillipa
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They arent the strongest hun...nor should they be considered last line treatments.Back in the day when they were developing meds they had ideas about what depression was but nothing was really clear, as far as I know...I dont think they knew the potential heavy influence of seratonin on depression.
The old maois used the "shot gun" approach (an old term coined years ago)...they just hit everything and by hitting lots of different neuros and having other effects they found potential usefullness. As far as I know these were compounds being designed for use in the elderly/parkinsons patients...they had the connection of dopamine and parkinsons back then...L-Dopa was being studied in the 60s I think perhaps even before. Well the old maois produced side effects in these parkinsons patients (or was it alzheimers...cant remember) like happyness etc....so hense was born one of the first categories of antidepressant.
Jan since no one knows exactly what your particular issue is with neuros...the maois are a good option (for anyone really...not all are hardcore like parnate and nardil, im sorry but no one will convince me, is no way a hardcore med - mild! mild! after you stabilize). Maois will go and hit everything for you...almost everyone who is considered "atypical" in depressive issues will see some benefit (varies) with maois...serious.
They arent strong than ssri's...just not directed at anything specific (ssri's almost exclusively seratonin with indirect effects on da or ne) and come with a few risks that scare drs....but seriously...i mean they the diet clear and what OTC meds you can take...only people uncaring or not paying attention would mess this up...so you cant have aged cheese and other fermented or aged foods and you have to deal with a cold other ways....for the benefit that a maoi can potential provide?...no issue here at all.
Posted by desolationrower on April 1, 2009, at 19:39:57
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!? » Phillipa, posted by myco on April 1, 2009, at 13:10:38
i experienced all of those symptoms, i was switching from a month long trial of selegiline that mostly helped energy and MASSIVE libido, but not very good for depression. i think the weight gain is mostly just the trazadone i take for sleep continuity (antihistamines suck)
the only directly i know of one MAOI interefernig with another is going -> phenelzine (and possibly other hydrazines, if it is the hydrazine strucutre that is doing the GABATi) because the MAO-produced metabolite of phenelzine is the GABATi. w/o the extant MAO, you don't get metabolite (or you have to wait around a lot longer for it to accumlate.) and in someone w/o MAO, TCP can act unopposed as a stimulant and cause the bp problems easily.
-d/r
Posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 13:27:09
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!?, posted by desolationrower on April 1, 2009, at 19:39:57
D/r...did you try augmenting the selegiline for a 5ht effect? Somepeople combine 5htp or bits of ssris with selegiline, if i remember discussions here.
Also...did you find selegiline gave you "unbearable" energy levels...to the points of anxiety? this maoi, albeit a maoi, is "more acceptable" to many gps...for those interested in maois but can't get the classics (nardil & parnate).
> i experienced all of those symptoms, i was switching from a month long trial of selegiline that mostly helped energy and MASSIVE libido, but not very good for depression. i think the weight gain is mostly just the trazadone i take for sleep continuity (antihistamines suck)
>
> the only directly i know of one MAOI interefernig with another is going -> phenelzine (and possibly other hydrazines, if it is the hydrazine strucutre that is doing the GABATi) because the MAO-produced metabolite of phenelzine is the GABATi. w/o the extant MAO, you don't get metabolite (or you have to wait around a lot longer for it to accumlate.) and in someone w/o MAO, TCP can act unopposed as a stimulant and cause the bp problems easily.
>
> -d/r
Posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 13:30:53
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!? » desolationrower, posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 13:27:09
One more possibly difficult quesion for you lol...would selegiline, because it hits DA hard (you mentioned energy and huge libido) increase the chance for relapse of cocaine abuse?....sounds alot like a coke high to me...lets dance kind of energy and hitting on everything that moves. lol coke is a dopamine transporter inhibitor if i remember....huge surges of DA...mabye like selegiline?
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> D/r...did you try augmenting the selegiline for a 5ht effect? Somepeople combine 5htp or bits of ssris with selegiline, if i remember discussions here.
> Also...did you find selegiline gave you "unbearable" energy levels...to the points of anxiety? this maoi, albeit a maoi, is "more acceptable" to many gps...for those interested in maois but can't get the classics (nardil & parnate).
>
>
> > i experienced all of those symptoms, i was switching from a month long trial of selegiline that mostly helped energy and MASSIVE libido, but not very good for depression. i think the weight gain is mostly just the trazadone i take for sleep continuity (antihistamines suck)
> >
> > the only directly i know of one MAOI interefernig with another is going -> phenelzine (and possibly other hydrazines, if it is the hydrazine strucutre that is doing the GABATi) because the MAO-produced metabolite of phenelzine is the GABATi. w/o the extant MAO, you don't get metabolite (or you have to wait around a lot longer for it to accumlate.) and in someone w/o MAO, TCP can act unopposed as a stimulant and cause the bp problems easily.
> >
> > -d/r
>
>
Posted by desolationrower on April 5, 2009, at 20:48:42
In reply to Re: Parnate: No Libido and Sleeping all the Time?!?!? » desolationrower, posted by myco on April 5, 2009, at 13:27:09
> D/r...did you try augmenting the selegiline for a 5ht effect? Somepeople combine 5htp or bits of ssris with selegiline, if i remember discussions here.
well i started with a low dose, along side an ssri, but ssris are nothing but negative for me.
> Also...did you find selegiline gave you "unbearable" energy levels...to the points of anxiety? this maoi, albeit a maoi, is "more acceptable" to many gps...for those interested in maois but can't get the classics (nardil & parnate).
no. i don't really have too much problem with physical energy, more just motivation/'drive' type thing. i mean even when depressed i still have my adhd fidgeting. i'd say a good rule is -> more acceptable to GP=less effective.
> One more possibly difficult quesion for you lol...would selegiline, because it hits DA hard (you mentioned energy and huge libido) increase the chance for relapse of cocaine abuse?....sounds alot like a coke high to me...lets dance kind of energy and hitting on everything that moves. lol coke is a dopamine transporter inhibitor if i remember....huge surges of DA...mabye like selegiline?
well i've never used coke, but since it isn't going to hit you like BAM, its mostly going to [sidebar: my theory of stimulant 'addiction' vs therapeutic use is focused a lot on speed of onset, so whether you get conditioning to the idea of reward being related to drug related things like seeing white lines, or whether you get conditioned to think of rewarding things in life that are normally mildly rewarding but for some people just not rewarding enough, like doing homework or cleaning the aparment, is largly dependent on how fast the stimulant works] make you interested in life, and not need to go skiing.
-d/r
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