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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2008, at 7:47:23
In reply to Re: excersise-- » sam K, posted by Bob on December 19, 2008, at 3:18:09
The application of a *long term* aerobic exercise regime has been shown to improve mood in depressed patients.
For some people, extreme dysphoria after exercise is a sign that they are out of shape or that they have pushed to hard.
Exercising for mood disorders is not necessarily about intensity.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2008, at 11:56:09
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by linkadge on December 19, 2008, at 7:47:23
Being consistent. Work up gradually right? Love Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on December 19, 2008, at 17:08:41
In reply to excersise--, posted by sam K on December 18, 2008, at 22:21:51
> hey guys how are you? I'm just wondering if anyone on this board feels worse and more depressed/anxious after working out. I do every time no matter what, maybe I need more anti depressant or something. My mood clearly goes down afterward. Maybe I need a mood stabilizer. well thanks cya
Personally I think exercise is overratated. I've had depressive episodes while exercising daily
and I've never been able to exercise out of a depressive episode. If anything get a rebound effect for a couple hours. Possible stimulant effect to the brain like a cold shower.
My p-doc says he feels exercise has helped his patients recover about 25% on average.I've known paralyzed people in wheelchairs who were very happy with the quality of their lives while known exercise fantatics who had severe depressive episodes.
But it's worth a shot. Good for your body. Personally I believe from a holistic point of view that being passionate about something in life is a key component.
As far as overexercising goes beware. Exercising with disc damage can lead to a total disability where one will hardly be able to walk. Pain will than be your constant companion.
Posted by paddo on December 19, 2008, at 17:23:20
In reply to excersise--, posted by sam K on December 18, 2008, at 22:21:51
I had a major meltdown/breakdown in the autumn of 96.Troubled for many years with a hurt different from just exercise. Still just kept pushing through with regular vigorous workouts before then after work inside or outside of company gym, the blokey never give into ones self was just one of many mantras. Crying whilst running or cycling in the gym not always though ...should have seen as the the red lights. Ok since then ..depending on the chronic side of this misery ..i still manage to jog twice a week only after seeing my therapist. I have a several thousand dollars pushbike that i look at ..no longer care. I no longer receive any satisfaction during or after..therapist suggests that i do it ..not quite his words ..something like you wont to know your still alive. Chronic depression, on a witch hunt for a med that will help to give back some energy. Present meds are Parnate 30 morning 30 after lunch. lamictal 200/2oo morning nite. Avitan depending on angst 1/4 to half depending on level of angst. One day at a time .. who bloody knows i may run a marathon again. Keep at it sam. Try your best not to give into yourself, things change. May this season give you some peace of mind. paddo
Posted by jms600 on December 19, 2008, at 17:45:45
In reply to excersise--, posted by sam K on December 18, 2008, at 22:21:51
I feel more anxious after fairly strenuous exercise (going to the gym) - I guess because of an increased level of adrenaline. My main diagnosis is anxiety, so I guess I'm always going to be more prone than others anyway.
I have read (numerous times) that exercise is good for depression.
Posted by bulldog2 on December 19, 2008, at 18:40:35
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by jms600 on December 19, 2008, at 17:45:45
> I feel more anxious after fairly strenuous exercise (going to the gym) - I guess because of an increased level of adrenaline. My main diagnosis is anxiety, so I guess I'm always going to be more prone than others anyway.
>
> I have read (numerous times) that exercise is good for depression.I don't doubt those studies however subjective experience is more important than studies since we are all different. Possibly a less vigorous exercise since exercise that is to vigourous may be depleting you more. perhaps walking?
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2008, at 20:37:04
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by bulldog2 on December 19, 2008, at 18:40:35
It has to be very fast walking then as aerobic excercise which means with oxygen requires pulse to go up with a formula based on age. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2008, at 7:11:45
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by bulldog2 on December 19, 2008, at 17:08:41
Perhaps the successful use of exercise to alleviate depression is depression subtype specific. I would guess it would help with true atypical unipolar depression with reactive mood. It almost certainly won't work with bipolar depression. I doubt that melancholic (classic endogenous) unipolar depression with severe psychomotor retardation would benefit either.
When it comes to mental illness, I think it is counterproductive to think of it in terms of global properties.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 7:24:44
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by bulldog2 on December 19, 2008, at 17:08:41
>Personally I think exercise is overratated. I've >had depressive episodes while exercising daily
>and I've never been able to exercise out of a >depressive episode.I think antidepressants are overrated. I've had depressive episodes while taking antidepressants daily and they rarely fully pull me out of a depressive episode.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 7:27:41
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by jms600 on December 19, 2008, at 17:45:45
Actually, while regular arobic exercise does increase adrenaline during the activity, it will decrease 24 hour adrenaline in the time afterwards.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 7:45:17
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by SLS on December 20, 2008, at 7:11:45
>I doubt that melancholic (classic endogenous) >unipolar depression with severe psychomotor >retardation would benefit either.
Well, you could consider my first depressive episode 'classic endogenous'. The first month of exercise was hell since I had never embarked on a steady exercise regime. However, after about 2 weeks I noticed I was sleeping better. Also the only times I would feel hungry was after a good run. After about a month I noticed that I would feel good about 20-40 min into the activity. It was like a light starting to turn on. Admittiedly, the blissed out feeling only lasted about 6 hours afterwards, but it was enough to get me through.
The next episode, I just sat on my behind and popped celexa 20mg. This didn't prevent the weight loss and it made the apathy unbearable. 40mg was worse. Eventaully, I lowered it to 5-10mg which helped, but it was only when I started exercising again that I really had any energy or motivation to do anything. Also, like the first time, the exercise caused a substantial improvement in sleep.
SSRI's don't do much for my depression. TCA's work better but I don't think they're all that safe. Nevertheless, I'd say one of the best combinations I was on was low dose elavil (20mg) plus exercise.
The norepinephrine active drugs seem to greatly increase the mood improvements I get with exercise. Parnate plus exercise was also extremely potent. Lithium however seemed to totally block the exercise induced mood improvement.
Linkadge
Posted by bulldog2 on December 20, 2008, at 8:48:05
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 7:24:44
> >Personally I think exercise is overratated. I've >had depressive episodes while exercising daily
> >and I've never been able to exercise out of a >depressive episode.
>
> I think antidepressants are overrated. I've had depressive episodes while taking antidepressants daily and they rarely fully pull me out of a depressive episode.
>
> LinkadgeI thought we were discussing exercise and not ads. Perhaps you should start another thread on ads.
If exercise was a cure for depression than the assumption would be that people get depressed because they don't exercise which simply is not true.
As stated i know people who are daily exercisers who have gone into depressive episodes. The causes of depression are varied and complex and there are no simple answers. I also believe that there are times when psychic energy is low and exercise may even exacerbate the depression.
I think Scott hit it right on the head with his analysis and he appears to be the most knowelable on these issues.
Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2008, at 12:48:56
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by SLS on December 20, 2008, at 7:11:45
Scott so my depression is? And What meds? Just your opinion of course thanks. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2008, at 13:03:02
In reply to Re: excersise-- » SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2008, at 12:48:56
Well don't overeat oversleep as don't go to bed til 2:30 or 3am so also don't put on weight. I just need to be doing things not sitting around. And excercise pumps me up and gives me energy and takes away anxiety motivates me. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 14:21:14
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by bulldog2 on December 20, 2008, at 8:48:05
>As stated i know people who are daily exercisers >who have gone into depressive episodes. The >causes of depression are varied and complex and >there are no simple answers. I also believe that >there are times when psychic energy is low and >exercise may even exacerbate the depression.
I agree. I was just trying to prevent a one sided exercise bash.
>I think Scott hit it right on the head with his >analysis and he appears to be the most >knowelable on these issues.
Yes, it does seem that way when he agrees with you.
Linkadge
Posted by bulldog2 on December 20, 2008, at 17:19:07
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 14:21:14
> >As stated i know people who are daily exercisers >who have gone into depressive episodes. The >causes of depression are varied and complex and >there are no simple answers. I also believe that >there are times when psychic energy is low and >exercise may even exacerbate the depression.
>
> I agree. I was just trying to prevent a one sided exercise bash.
>
> >I think Scott hit it right on the head with his >analysis and he appears to be the most >knowelable on these issues.
>
> Yes, it does seem that way when he agrees with you.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>No bashing of exercise. It's one of many tools available when one is depressed. Generally psychic energy is low and any tool that elevates that energy may help the depression. For me it can be a cup of coffee. Right now it is very cold where I live and that seems that the shock of cold air elevates my mood. For some reason exercise flattens my mood right now. Long sessions suck out my energy. I find that doing a bunch of short tasks and keeping busy helps my mood.
Posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 20:50:26
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by bulldog2 on December 20, 2008, at 17:19:07
>For me it can be a cup of coffee. Right now it >is very cold where I live and that seems that >the shock of cold air elevates my mood. For some >reason exercise flattens my mood right now. Long >sessions suck out my energy. I find that doing a >bunch of short tasks and keeping busy helps my >mood.
It is cold where I live now too and many times exercise is not possible for long periods of time.
It is usually when I cannot exercise in the winter that I get most depressed. I can tollerate the short daylight if I can get out and run during the day.
One thing about exercise is that (after long term application) you totally change the way the body utilizes energy. There is a lot of new research regarding how arobic exericse, like resveratrol, activates the SIRT-1 gene, which in addition to extending lifespan changes the way the body uses energy. Exercise has the ability to make the body much more efficiant at producing and utilizing energy at the cellular level instead of boosting brain chemicals and tricking your body into thinking it has more energy than it does.
Its the same thing with periodic fasting. You activate the genes that makes your cells a little more cautious about how they use energy.
I agree that depressed people don't often have the energy to exercise, but you don't exercise when you have energy, you exercise to get energy.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on December 21, 2008, at 0:51:11
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 20:50:26
Exactly!!!! Oh how I miss running and the runners high . Back problems and age prevent that so ride bike fast. Love Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on December 21, 2008, at 10:09:36
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 20:50:26
> >For me it can be a cup of coffee. Right now it >is very cold where I live and that seems that >the shock of cold air elevates my mood. For some >reason exercise flattens my mood right now. Long >sessions suck out my energy. I find that doing a >bunch of short tasks and keeping busy helps my >mood.
>
> It is cold where I live now too and many times exercise is not possible for long periods of time.
>
> It is usually when I cannot exercise in the winter that I get most depressed. I can tollerate the short daylight if I can get out and run during the day.
>
> One thing about exercise is that (after long term application) you totally change the way the body utilizes energy. There is a lot of new research regarding how arobic exericse, like resveratrol, activates the SIRT-1 gene, which in addition to extending lifespan changes the way the body uses energy. Exercise has the ability to make the body much more efficiant at producing and utilizing energy at the cellular level instead of boosting brain chemicals and tricking your body into thinking it has more energy than it does.
>
> Its the same thing with periodic fasting. You activate the genes that makes your cells a little more cautious about how they use energy.
>
> I agree that depressed people don't often have the energy to exercise, but you don't exercise when you have energy, you exercise to get energy.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>I know some people who are passive but are passionate about things such as music or art. That seems to keep them happy. I think that exercise (when it works) stimulates a certain portion of the brain that is associated with happiness. But I think in the end one has to have a purpose in life. For some it may be a satisfying job and for others a hobby that is very stimulating. The point is to get the mind looking outward instead of a state of contraction or inward looking. I think exercise is a temporary fix in that it needs to be constant or the brain goes back into depression. I find my depression which seems reactive responds very positively to news which seems to indicate a positive trend for me. I just can't see how riding a bike would be more than a temporary fix to energize one for a few hours. The human mind needs purpose and hope for a brighter day.You have holy people who meditate in caves for hours and live in a state of bliss. But they have a very strong sense of purpose and direction.
Posted by bulldog2 on December 21, 2008, at 10:09:52
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by linkadge on December 20, 2008, at 20:50:26
> >For me it can be a cup of coffee. Right now it >is very cold where I live and that seems that >the shock of cold air elevates my mood. For some >reason exercise flattens my mood right now. Long >sessions suck out my energy. I find that doing a >bunch of short tasks and keeping busy helps my >mood.
>
> It is cold where I live now too and many times exercise is not possible for long periods of time.
>
> It is usually when I cannot exercise in the winter that I get most depressed. I can tollerate the short daylight if I can get out and run during the day.
>
> One thing about exercise is that (after long term application) you totally change the way the body utilizes energy. There is a lot of new research regarding how arobic exericse, like resveratrol, activates the SIRT-1 gene, which in addition to extending lifespan changes the way the body uses energy. Exercise has the ability to make the body much more efficiant at producing and utilizing energy at the cellular level instead of boosting brain chemicals and tricking your body into thinking it has more energy than it does.
>
> Its the same thing with periodic fasting. You activate the genes that makes your cells a little more cautious about how they use energy.
>
> I agree that depressed people don't often have the energy to exercise, but you don't exercise when you have energy, you exercise to get energy.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>I know some people who are passive but are passionate about things such as music or art. That seems to keep them happy. I think that exercise (when it works) stimulates a certain portion of the brain that is associated with happiness. But I think in the end one has to have a purpose in life. For some it may be a satisfying job and for others a hobby that is very stimulating. The point is to get the mind looking outward instead of a state of contraction or inward looking. I think exercise is a temporary fix in that it needs to be constant or the brain goes back into depression. I find my depression which seems reactive responds very positively to news which seems to indicate a positive trend for me. I just can't see how riding a bike would be more than a temporary fix to energize one for a few hours. The human mind needs purpose and hope for a brighter day.You have holy people who meditate in caves for hours and live in a state of bliss. But they have a very strong sense of purpose and direction.
Posted by Phillipa on December 21, 2008, at 13:30:13
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by bulldog2 on December 21, 2008, at 10:09:52
I believe when your whole life was excercise from childhood swim teem, tennis competitive, running competitive and that wonderous feeling of accomplishment that some were meant for intellectual persuits and others for physical activities. I've always been phycially active sitting still drives me crazy. But I'm only one in millions of people. Just my own history and why excercise is so important to me. Even nursing if not busy ran errands for other nurses. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on December 21, 2008, at 14:35:51
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by Phillipa on December 21, 2008, at 13:30:13
> I believe when your whole life was excercise from childhood swim teem, tennis competitive, running competitive and that wonderous feeling of accomplishment that some were meant for intellectual persuits and others for physical activities. I've always been phycially active sitting still drives me crazy. But I'm only one in millions of people. Just my own history and why excercise is so important to me. Even nursing if not busy ran errands for other nurses. Phillipa
One can enjoy exercise as one can enjoy any hobby. But life moves on and our ability to exercise dimishes as our bodies grow old and decrepit. But as your body will fail you your spirit is still there. There has to be some meaning in our lives beyond our ephemeral pursuits.
Posted by bulldog2 on December 21, 2008, at 16:46:20
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by Phillipa on December 21, 2008, at 13:30:13
> I believe when your whole life was excercise from childhood swim teem, tennis competitive, running competitive and that wonderous feeling of accomplishment that some were meant for intellectual persuits and others for physical activities. I've always been phycially active sitting still drives me crazy. But I'm only one in millions of people. Just my own history and why excercise is so important to me. Even nursing if not busy ran errands for other nurses. Phillipa
old age is coming fast..soon you will no longer be able to ride your bike..we become decrepit and feeble..the body wastes away..
But you still have your soul..that is the path to happiness..
with your bike riding you cling to the past which is no longer relevant..
Posted by bulldog2 on December 21, 2008, at 19:13:19
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by Phillipa on December 21, 2008, at 13:30:13
> I believe when your whole life was excercise from childhood swim teem, tennis competitive, running competitive and that wonderous feeling of accomplishment that some were meant for intellectual persuits and others for physical activities. I've always been phycially active sitting still drives me crazy. But I'm only one in millions of people. Just my own history and why excercise is so important to me. Even nursing if not busy ran errands for other nurses. Phillipa
That may be your history but that does not mean it has to be your future...ride your bike if you enjoy that...but as I said before you're at an age where you'll be able to do less and less athletics...you need to find the path to happiness...what you did in the past is fine but that is the past...one can find a new path
Posted by Phillipa on December 23, 2008, at 13:34:39
In reply to Re: excersise--, posted by bulldog2 on December 21, 2008, at 19:13:19
Well it didn't work last night remained exhausted. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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