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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 8, 2008, at 12:31:27
I'm wondering if anyone can share their objective/subjective observations on Nardil vs. Parnate. I'm on Nardil. I'm just doing some reading and it appears that Parnate is preferred. Fewer side effects, less toxicity, similar efficacy. I think I/my pdoc chose Nardil because it is more anxiolytic than Parnate but now I'm questioning the decision. Please share your thoughts on the differences between these two especially if you've tried them both.
Phoenix1
Posted by stargazer2 on January 8, 2008, at 16:51:40
In reply to Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parnate), posted by Phoenix1 on January 8, 2008, at 12:31:27
I'm also curious about the two, being on Nardil and suffering weight gain, gas and hypotension as the most dreaded side effects. Don't want to switch if the AD effects are not as great though. I just increassed Nardil from 45 to 60 mg again, back and forth over and over, the depression is never well controlled either.
Stargazer
Posted by Justherself54 on January 8, 2008, at 17:25:27
In reply to Re: Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine/ Me 2, posted by stargazer2 on January 8, 2008, at 16:51:40
Parnate: terrible hypotension, no appetite, very tired periods during the day..slept well, lifted depression, increased libido
Nardil: no hypotenson, increased cravings for sweets, major energy, insomnia, lifted depressionm decreased libido
I feel physically better on Nardil than I did on Parnate..The hypotension was horrible..sometimes i had to go down on my hands and knees it would hit so badly..I haven't had one episode of hypotension with Nardil..I find Nardil far more energizing than Parnate..
So for me Nardil outweighs Parnate..
Posted by Maxime on January 8, 2008, at 18:47:09
In reply to Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parnate), posted by Phoenix1 on January 8, 2008, at 12:31:27
Parnate was a life saver for me. The downside to Parnate is that it is stimulating, and it didn't brighten my mood the way Nardil did. I stopped Nardil because it made me lactate and I was getting awful acne on my face and back.
That's all.
Maxime
Posted by ny2bk on January 8, 2008, at 19:52:18
In reply to Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parnate), posted by Phoenix1 on January 8, 2008, at 12:31:27
> I'm wondering if anyone can share their objective/subjective observations on Nardil vs. Parnate. I'm on Nardil. I'm just doing some reading and it appears that Parnate is preferred. Fewer side effects, less toxicity, similar efficacy. I think I/my pdoc chose Nardil because it is more anxiolytic than Parnate but now I'm questioning the decision. Please share your thoughts on the differences between these two especially if you've tried them both.
>
> Phoenix1First let me say parnate was also reformulated from a sugar coated pill to a dry film like one.Supposedly this holds no differance to the drug,however having used both,i definatly find the sugar coated non u.s version to be a reminder of how much better parnate ONCE WAS HERE.
On that note,the basics are,
Parnate initialy stimulating for some,works fast regardless in terms of effect.Parnate is both sedating and fatique causing,so its not a clear stimulant,theres no onset rush or crash like a ampehtamine.
Parnate also is good at if not lifting a mood in turn rather taking away the gut fear in depression,it sorta seems like a mood stablizer at times where if depression was fear driven,bed ridden parnate kinda crushes that and makes u kinda EH to it and able to live life.
It for me increases libido highly,very highly,however causes a extreme difficulity in orgasim.Almost an impossability at times.
Parnate also has a less accumative effect,almost as if you start the drug over from scratch every day,which gives it a scary "hard drug" feel opposed from a more therputic one.
Last i found parnate to actualy play well with many secondary meds,i.e benzos,mood stablizers,even stimulants in attempt to enhance it or stop its tolerance.
Nardil has a notorious weight gain issue,and decrease in sex drive.Unlike parnate nardil doesent have the quick onset of action,HOWEVER nardil once felt,seems to have a more solid back bone...its almost funny how the two resemble xanax to klonopins differances.
Nardil has a more potent social effect as well,however many meds can be added to parnate to attempt to come close to nardils.In my opinion id use parnate if i were bed ridden and in a dangerous time of depression,parnate will come on faster when you dont have much time to hang on and wait.
Nardil i would use for a more stable med,when your not in immediate need for reliaf and can wait a while for the drug to kick in.Nardil will be more accumative and more solid.
A few notes to be made is nardil as stated by a community of users or ex users was a almost different med pre formulation change.This is just a quick drift,however the differances of the two can be much more detailed.
Posted by stargazer2 on January 8, 2008, at 22:22:25
In reply to Re: Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine/ Me 2, posted by Justherself54 on January 8, 2008, at 17:25:27
JHS...I have had very severe hypotension on Nardil, so what works for one may not for another.
My BP on Nardil was as low as 60/40 and I was always checking it with my BP cuff since I couldn't believe how low it was. I thought I would have to stop it but it did eventually return to my pre-Nardil low of 90-100/50-60.
How but weight gain on Nardil? I have gained about 20 # but have started to lose some with daily exercise.
I tried Parnate years ago and it didn't do squat so I' m not even sure it would work if I tried it.
Also, it does not give me much energy either.
What dose were you on? Do yu remember?
We all have our own unique experiences with each medication based on age and other conditions and medications. Hard to compare apples to oranges.
Stargazer
Posted by Justherself54 on January 8, 2008, at 23:08:18
In reply to Re: Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine/ Me 2/justhersel, posted by stargazer2 on January 8, 2008, at 22:22:25
> JHS...I have had very severe hypotension on Nardil, so what works for one may not for another.
>
> My BP on Nardil was as low as 60/40 and I was always checking it with my BP cuff since I couldn't believe how low it was. I thought I would have to stop it but it did eventually return to my pre-Nardil low of 90-100/50-60.
>
> How but weight gain on Nardil? I have gained about 20 # but have started to lose some with daily exercise.
>
> I tried Parnate years ago and it didn't do squat so I' m not even sure it would work if I tried it.
>
> Also, it does not give me much energy either.
>
> What dose were you on? Do yu remember?
>
> We all have our own unique experiences with each medication based on age and other conditions and medications. Hard to compare apples to oranges.
>
> StargazerFor the life of me I can't remember what dose of Parnate I was on..the recommended dosage I think..I went off it due to weird chills which I found out later after starting Nardil were due to a long recovery from surgery and not the parnate. It is like comparing apples to oranges! I gained 6 pounds but lost them by not having anything sweet in the house, no jams, honey, brown sugar..not sure if it's the Nardil, cause I'm not hungry during the day..only when I take my seroquel and zopicone at night that I could eat a ton of sweet stuff in very weird combinations.. too..I slurped caramel sauce right out of the bottle one night..sheesh..but then again I gained 80 pounds on SSRI's in 3 years..so again it's like comparing apples and oranges..I just feel more like "myself" on Nardil than I did on Parnate..
Posted by Jedi on January 9, 2008, at 4:33:31
In reply to Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parnate), posted by Phoenix1 on January 8, 2008, at 12:31:27
> I'm wondering if anyone can share their objective/subjective observations on Nardil vs. Parnate. I'm on Nardil. I'm just doing some reading and it appears that Parnate is preferred. Fewer side effects, less toxicity, similar efficacy. I think I/my pdoc chose Nardil because it is more anxiolytic than Parnate but now I'm questioning the decision. Please share your thoughts on the differences between these two especially if you've tried them both.
>
> Phoenix1Hi,
I've been on both medications. Nardil, for most of eleven years with two short trials of Parnate. The reason for the Parnate trials was the weight gain and anorgasmia from Nardil. During the 2nd trial of Parnate, it seemed to be working fairly well while augmented with clonazepam. This supplied the GABA which Nardil has and Parnate doesn't. Unfortunately, I had a rare spontaneous hypertensive reaction while on Parnate; had to go back to Nardil.I've also had small increases in blood pressure while on Nardil, with no meds or food to precipitate it. These are not full fledged hypertensive emergencies. Just enough to make me feel sick with a strange feeling in the chest. When this happens, I lay down for a few minutes and the pain goes away. I don't get a headache, though I rarely do. This makes it pretty easy for me to tell if a hypertensive crisis is coming on. Nardil normally lowers my blood pressure at least ten points. This eliminates the need for a blood pressure med to control my normally borderline high BP.
Both Parnate and Nardil cause extreme afternoon tiredness. With Nardil, I used it long enough for that side effect to go away. I had severe somnolence every afternoon with Parnate.
Both medications cause extreme insomnia in me. With Nardil I have been able to get a good night's sleep almost every night with clonazepam(2mg) and Seroquel(25mg). It is mostly the Seroquel that causes the sleepiness in me. I am highly sensitive to antihistamines, though their affect on somnolence wears off quickly. Seroquel's antagonism of histamine H 1 receptors may explain the somnolence observed with this drug. After six months of use it still works for me at the very low dose of 25mg.
I believe you have to be more careful with hypertensive emergencies while on Parnate as opposed to Nardil. Nardil is a more relaxing medication after you get over the initial side effects. When I first took Nardil I had a several week feeling of euphoria or hypomania when the medication first kicked in. If this happens to you, don't mistake it for the antidepressant effect. Some Pdocs will take a patient off Nardil if they experience hypomania. In my case, after a few weeks the hypomania went away. Sometimes I wish I could have it back. Be careful not to make any rash decisions while experiencing hypomania. You may end up divorced, broke, etc.
Be well,
Jedi
Posted by ny2bk on January 9, 2008, at 8:13:46
In reply to Re: Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parnate) » Phoenix1, posted by Jedi on January 9, 2008, at 4:33:31
Actualy to my surprise parnate does have a large effect on gaba,google the term PARNATE GABAB B and youll find that parnate upregulates these receptors,which in short makes the sedatives,mostly gaba b much more potent.
Possably why i do personly find sedatives to be stronger much stronger when taken on parnate.
I can provide a link to the study if needed,its all so confusing really.
> > I'm wondering if anyone can share their objective/subjective observations on Nardil vs. Parnate. I'm on Nardil. I'm just doing some reading and it appears that Parnate is preferred. Fewer side effects, less toxicity, similar efficacy. I think I/my pdoc chose Nardil because it is more anxiolytic than Parnate but now I'm questioning the decision. Please share your thoughts on the differences between these two especially if you've tried them both.
> >
> > Phoenix1
>
> Hi,
> I've been on both medications. Nardil, for most of eleven years with two short trials of Parnate. The reason for the Parnate trials was the weight gain and anorgasmia from Nardil. During the 2nd trial of Parnate, it seemed to be working fairly well while augmented with clonazepam. This supplied the GABA which Nardil has and Parnate doesn't. Unfortunately, I had a rare spontaneous hypertensive reaction while on Parnate; had to go back to Nardil.
>
> I've also had small increases in blood pressure while on Nardil, with no meds or food to precipitate it. These are not full fledged hypertensive emergencies. Just enough to make me feel sick with a strange feeling in the chest. When this happens, I lay down for a few minutes and the pain goes away. I don't get a headache, though I rarely do. This makes it pretty easy for me to tell if a hypertensive crisis is coming on. Nardil normally lowers my blood pressure at least ten points. This eliminates the need for a blood pressure med to control my normally borderline high BP.
>
> Both Parnate and Nardil cause extreme afternoon tiredness. With Nardil, I used it long enough for that side effect to go away. I had severe somnolence every afternoon with Parnate.
>
> Both medications cause extreme insomnia in me. With Nardil I have been able to get a good night's sleep almost every night with clonazepam(2mg) and Seroquel(25mg). It is mostly the Seroquel that causes the sleepiness in me. I am highly sensitive to antihistamines, though their affect on somnolence wears off quickly. Seroquel's antagonism of histamine H 1 receptors may explain the somnolence observed with this drug. After six months of use it still works for me at the very low dose of 25mg.
>
> I believe you have to be more careful with hypertensive emergencies while on Parnate as opposed to Nardil. Nardil is a more relaxing medication after you get over the initial side effects. When I first took Nardil I had a several week feeling of euphoria or hypomania when the medication first kicked in. If this happens to you, don't mistake it for the antidepressant effect. Some Pdocs will take a patient off Nardil if they experience hypomania. In my case, after a few weeks the hypomania went away. Sometimes I wish I could have it back. Be careful not to make any rash decisions while experiencing hypomania. You may end up divorced, broke, etc.
> Be well,
> Jedi
>
Posted by Molitor on January 9, 2008, at 12:29:35
In reply to Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parnate), posted by Phoenix1 on January 8, 2008, at 12:31:27
My experience in a nutshell: Nardil isn't more anxiolytic than Parnate, however, Nardil is more pro-social. They are both excellent antidepressants, and although they both put me in a good mood, on Parnate I don't really enjoy things, whereas Nardil I do - Movies, food, people, art, food, sex, food, etc.
I've also found Parnate is more touchy with blood pressure, and my BP and goes up shortly after I take it, then drops to hypotension some time after. It also makes my heart beat harder, although it doesn't actually increase heatrate. I can't really tell anything after I take a dose of Nardil. I'm much more worried about food/drug interactions and hypertensive crisis on Parnate.
I vastly prefer the way Nardil makes me feel mentally.
I don't understand your statement about Parnate having "less toxicity".
Really, like all these other drugs, the only way to actually know is to try them. If your anxiety is socially related, I doubt that going to Parnate will make you feel better.
Posted by Maxime on January 9, 2008, at 19:51:25
In reply to Re: Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parn » Phoenix1, posted by Molitor on January 9, 2008, at 12:29:35
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 9, 2008, at 20:33:58
In reply to So will you switch to Parnate Phoenix? (nm), posted by Maxime on January 9, 2008, at 19:51:25
Thanks for everyone's responses. I'm doind very well on Nardil, save for a few side-effects. I think I'll stay on Nardil unless it stops working, or the side effects worsen, or I gain too much weight. I hope to get rid of the Seroquel too as I think it's only contributing to my weight gain. I stopped the clonazepam cold turkey and am feeling fine. It would be great to just take the Nardil, and then zopiclone if required for sleep.
Phoenix1
Posted by Phoenix1 on January 10, 2008, at 21:47:12
In reply to Re: Phenelzine vs Tranylcypromine (Nardil vs. Parn » Phoenix1, posted by Molitor on January 9, 2008, at 12:29:35
> My experience in a nutshell: Nardil isn't more anxiolytic than Parnate, however, Nardil is more pro-social. They are both excellent antidepressants, and although they both put me in a good mood, on Parnate I don't really enjoy things, whereas Nardil I do - Movies, food, people, art, food, sex, food, etc.
>
> I've also found Parnate is more touchy with blood pressure, and my BP and goes up shortly after I take it, then drops to hypotension some time after. It also makes my heart beat harder, although it doesn't actually increase heatrate. I can't really tell anything after I take a dose of Nardil. I'm much more worried about food/drug interactions and hypertensive crisis on Parnate.
>
> I vastly prefer the way Nardil makes me feel mentally.
>
> I don't understand your statement about Parnate having "less toxicity".
>
> Really, like all these other drugs, the only way to actually know is to try them. If your anxiety is socially related, I doubt that going to Parnate will make you feel better.
>
>
>
>There is discussion in the literature that Nardil is more toxic because of it's hydrazine structure, Issues with liver and carcinogenicity. But it is this hydrazine structure that works to inhibit GABA transaminase and increase GABA. So it is a double edged sword. Anyways, I'm going to stick with Nardil for now.
This is the end of the thread.
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