![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 42. Go back in thread:
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 16, 2003, at 16:19:31
In reply to I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by zarathustra on September 16, 2003, at 2:43:38
> I have turned to 'psycho-babble' for advice as I dont believe I can trust psychiatrists anymore; ...enormous message...
> Andrew.
-----------------If I read you correctly:
-You're gifted
-You're unsociable
-Your're fascinated with how things work. With subunits
-Drugs don't help youI'm just an armchair psychiatrist, but it seems to me that you've described the rough outline of someone in the autism spectrum (aspergers). Maybe investigate that.
Further suggestions:
You've been diagnosed with depession before. Do *you* feel like you're depressed? Is your mood relatively static over the years, or does it vary? Have you contemplated suicide? Do you desire anything? To me, depression is a subversion of the mind that simply limits our thoughts and motivations into an inert holding pattern, perhaps waiting for the environment to change. It's the brain giving up, having come to the conclusion that your life is no longer of any utility to the continuation of the species. It's evolution.
I've rambled on in previous posts about the fact that we are our minds, and our minds are mushy software with an objective. We don't control it through some higher function because there's no place for it. We blindly accept the thoughts and moods of our minds as our own, because we feel responsible for their existance (it works best that way). We resist changing our moods because they feel true; they feel "us."
If your brain has taken a dismal turn, it must be subverted, and the only source of useful subversion lies in input from outside yourself (things not from your brain). Outside information, and the acceptance of it, can really change people (scientologists and terrorists are some effective examples, if poor role models).
If you accept that you are depressed, then take some ADs (they'll help your brain form new connections), and take in some good information about yourself and the world. It doesn't have to be spiritual or anything, just positive and empowering. Resist that cynical part of you that you feel is you, and just do it. It's the only way. It's not cheating, it's just evening the odds against your maladaptive biology. You need to wrest control away from the current program.
As for the ADHD deal, depression can produce the same effects, so nobody's going to diagnose you as ADHD until that's ruled out (it's statistically more likely than ADHD so they treat for that first).
You've obviously got the capacity for change in you. No one else I know would take suggestions about their sexuality with any seriousness. That takes an open mind.
Posted by utopizen on September 16, 2003, at 17:23:29
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post) » zarathustra, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 16, 2003, at 16:19:31
Wait a second, Dexedrine doesn't work on me, I lack some social skills, I'm smarter than most of the kids in my top-tier college classes, and um, I still am properly treated and doing well.
Dexedrine isn't the only drug, or predictor of other drug efficaxy, for an individual.
Asperger's isn't treatable with drugs. Even if he has Asperger's, that doesn't rule out potential treatment for ADHD.
I suggest a comprehensive neuropsychological evaluation, it will help any future doctor with your treatment. No, realistically a psychopharma won't read anything beyond the executive page, but that's all that really matters anyway. : )
As for me, I saw my doc, it turned okay, he lacks a secretary, appologized for things. I got my Desoxyn refilled.
Oh, and um, 70-90% of patients fail their drug treatments for ADHD. That's why Desoxyn was bought from Abbott last summer for $40 million. Lots of people don't find efficacy with non-Desoxyn stimulants, that doesn't mean to not try Desoxyn.
And friggin' effexor would be neurotoxic if you inject it and took it without sleep or food for days and took it at 25x your daily dose. For crying out loud, 10mg of Desoxyn ain't neurotoxic.
Besides that, um, suggesting that it is ignores recent findings reported in Scientific American that show toxicity is good for your neurons, and is the mechanism by which any mental benefit occurs from exercise. Exercise, as we all know, helps our bodies by initially straining ourselves and depriving ourselves of oxygen, increasing toxic things like lactic acid, etc., and this is hypoxic, it causes neurotoxicity, and that's why it's good for you. Ha!
Yup, psychiatry is a science, not everything is common sense-- just because something's "neurotoxic" doesn't mean it must be "bad." And no, Desoxyn isn't anyway.
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 17, 2003, at 13:21:45
In reply to I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by zarathustra on September 16, 2003, at 2:43:38
Hi Andrew
I just have time for a short answer...I tried 5mg dexedrine(generic) and it depressed me and made me spacey. For some reason dexedrine sr (capsule generic) work fairly well. However, I would ask your pdoc to try you on adderall. Be sure you take your medication on an empty stomach, and avoid taking vitamin c until bed time. This goes for OJ or any acidic drinks like pop and coffee.
You have had one heck of a time of it. I hope it gets better for you!
You are worth the effort to get well :)
Blondegirl
Posted by Kacy on September 17, 2003, at 15:05:35
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post) » zarathustra, posted by blondegirl47 on September 17, 2003, at 13:21:45
I haven't taken dexedrine, but I have taken Ritalin and Adderal. With Ritalin, for sure, coffee increased its effects. Often, I couldn't even get any response to Ritalin without a 'coffee back'.
Is it supposed to be the same as dexedrine in that way?
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 17, 2003, at 15:10:39
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. blondegirl47, posted by Kacy on September 17, 2003, at 15:05:35
In my humble opionion caffiene kill adderall and dexedrine. Do a search on food and adderall or acid and adderall or dexedrine. It will explain. Coffee will also make your heart pound more and the medication is doing that enough.
Blondegirl
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:02:29
In reply to I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by zarathustra on September 16, 2003, at 2:43:38
I stated in another post that *real life*, the *real world*, is unique to everyone. Your individual reality is how you perceive your world. How you feel and think is everything, to you.
My experience in school was different. I made straight A's without trying. I was the quiet one that the teacher's adored. Painfully shy. I endured very little harrassment by other kids because I was simply beneath their notice. Music and math were my favorites. Music because it moves my spirit and math because it has rules. Memorize the rules and you can achieve perfection every time.
So much talent. Musically gifted on the piano, but I hated to play for others. Zero ambition. I loved to learn... everything. One of those people who knows alittle about everything, and alot about nothing. When I go to a doctor's office, I tell him what's wrong with me. Because I've already researched it thoroughly.
<smile> 3 paragraphs to go through. not nearly as long as yours. The point is:
I don't have many friends. I am married, for the 4th time, to a semi-stranger. So many times, I look at him, and wonder.. "is that all?" just food, sex, practical jokes & sleep? that's all he needs and thinks about? what about theories? analyzing things? learning new things? seeing the world?
He doesn't think like I do. Hardly anyone does. I'm an oddball and sometimes even take pride in being unique. other times i realize i'm destined to lead a lonely existance. even as a child, i had thoughts that God was a scientist and i was his experiment. nothing existed except for me and God monitored how i reacted in an environment that he controlled.
I don't get much pleasure out of life. The majority of people live life in pursuit of pleasure, be it sex, good food, fun, wine or whiskey. I can't deal with the thought that I'm just an animal on one planet in one of many galaxies.
I was depressed, and self-medicating with alcohol. Now I take Effexor and I don't look through depression-tainted eyes. I still feel different from everyone else. I'm newly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and now take Strattera. It helps me focus which helps me to complete my 1001 halfway finished projects... But I'm still an oddball.
Enjoy what you are feeling while it lasts, if the medicine makes you feel better. The way you feel is your reality. If you feel better, you are better.
KDi in Texas
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 17:10:24
In reply to WOW » zarathustra, posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:02:29
>I am married, for the 4th time, to a semi-stranger. So many times, I look at him, and wonder.. "is that all?" just food, sex, practical jokes & sleep? that's all he needs and thinks about? what about theories? analyzing things? learning new things? seeing the world?
---------How long did you date before you married this guy? I've been through one marriage to an incompatible before. As you said, she didn't really think about anything that wasn't required for her to get through the day. I think a lot of people are like that (or they don't let on otherwise, anyway). It's the difference between people who live in the world, and people who live in their head. If the things in your life don't interest you, you've got nowhere else to go for novelty than into yourself. If only it didn't typically lead to isolation and depression.
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:17:57
In reply to Re: WOW » KimberlyDi, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 17:10:24
Got married for practical reasons. 1) he was my boss. 2) he has 3-times the senority at work than i do, 3) he threatened to have me fired, 4) i finally have a job that challenges me and didn't want to lose that, and 5) being single wasn't working well for me either.
I married to continue an existance that I found acceptable. Make any sense?
I'm not sure it is a good thing that I live in my head. Oh well, can't change it anyways. I like your comment that we are our minds. i concur.
> >I am married, for the 4th time, to a semi-stranger. So many times, I look at him, and wonder.. "is that all?" just food, sex, practical jokes & sleep? that's all he needs and thinks about? what about theories? analyzing things? learning new things? seeing the world?
> ---------
>
> How long did you date before you married this guy? I've been through one marriage to an incompatible before. As you said, she didn't really think about anything that wasn't required for her to get through the day. I think a lot of people are like that (or they don't let on otherwise, anyway). It's the difference between people who live in the world, and people who live in their head. If the things in your life don't interest you, you've got nowhere else to go for novelty than into yourself. If only it didn't typically lead to isolation and depression.
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 17, 2003, at 17:20:03
In reply to WOW » zarathustra, posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:02:29
Enjoy, your uniqueness...there are too many cookie cutter people out there. :)
Blondegirl
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 17, 2003, at 17:33:15
In reply to Re: WOW » Eddie Sylvano, posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:17:57
Do you all let your mates know whats going on in your head?
Its hard to find the engergy and the brain power to think about theories, analyzing things, learning new things and seeing the world when you can't find your keys or the purse you put them in :) te he.
Blondegirl
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 18:02:28
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post) » Eddie Sylvano, posted by utopizen on September 16, 2003, at 17:23:29
> Wait a second, Dexedrine doesn't work on me, I lack some social skills, I'm smarter than most of the kids in my top-tier college classes, and um, I still am properly treated and doing well.
------------symptoms of aspergers:
http://web.syr.edu/~rjkopp/data/as_diag_list.html> Dexedrine isn't the only drug, or predictor of other drug efficaxy, for an individual.
------I agree.
> Asperger's isn't treatable with drugs. Even if he has Asperger's, that doesn't rule out potential treatment for ADHD.
---------------
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 18:18:53
In reply to Re: WOW » Eddie Sylvano, posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:17:57
> I married to continue an existance that I found acceptable. Make any sense?
--------I can appreciate the fact that it is sooooo difficult to find "real" people. I've spent plenty of time looking, and have been lucky to finally find one.
I feel like everyone else has objectives that satisfy them (career, appearance, global social approbation), and I'm off in left field watching ants, or staring at clouds (literally. I do this.). It's supposedly cool the be different or "quirky," but it really isn't enjoyable to be unable to relate to the vast majority of people in the world. Unique needs to fit into the fat part of the bell curve to be appreciated.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 17, 2003, at 21:11:57
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 18:02:28
Interesting article about Asperger's -- my 24 y.o. cousin has been in complete remission from this disorder for several years due to a combination of fluoxetine 5mg, clozapine 25mg b.i.d., and Adderall 5mg q.i.d., so I pretty much have to believe that drug treatment is possible.
Posted by fachad on September 17, 2003, at 22:14:20
In reply to I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by zarathustra on September 16, 2003, at 2:43:38
I have many things in common with your experience(s) of life. I'll share a few ideas, and link to some older posts pertinent to those ideas, because I'm too lazy to re-type them.
I have been having the sense of philosophical emptiness for as long as I have been able to reflect on my experience.
I majored in philosophy in college, because it seemed like if I could not resolve these existential issues, no vocation would matter or be worth doing.
I responded to stimulants, first Ritalin, then Dexedrine in a major way and have struggled with the same (drug or med) question for years.
Here are a few ponderings...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020307/msgs/97442.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020307/msgs/97130.html
As to what your REAL diagnosis is, and whether a particular med is the right one for THAT diagnosis, see below
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020408/msgs/103154.html
I have even contemplated the issue in the minds of others, specifically a hypothetical suspicious physician in my future who is reluctant to RX for me.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020416/msgs/103521.html
I think the most productive approach for you would be to leverage your natural intelligence to work on making your life experience better.
To that end, the cognitive, rational-emotive therapies would be ideal. You can buy the works of Albert Ellis and David Burns very cheaply, and work thru them yourself.
I think you would be very impressed by Ellis' (corny titled) "Guide to Rational Living", and if you got the hang of the dialogue, you'd be well on your way to a better philosophical perspective and more pleasant life experience.
Plus, Ellis is also an atheist and has written a title on addiction recovery without resort to supernatural beliefs so predominant in 12 step programs.
If Dexedrine helps, then by all means ask your doctor to RX for it - don't be hung up on DSM diagnosis. But the kind of life problems you are describing will not be resolved by medication, IMHO.
Some people, who are less reflective and more oriented to ordinary life, may do fine with medication only.
But your issues are philosophical at root, and are manifesting behaviorally (including cognitive behavior patterns and resultant emotional experiences) so the intervention needs to be at that level. "Plato not Prozac" is a book that you may find helpful.
I could say a lot more but for time will end here for now.
> I have turned to 'psycho-babble' for advice as I don’t believe I can trust psychiatrists anymore; I have seen several and they always seem to diagnose me differently. I have followed this board for about ten years now, posting infrequently. I know there are some very intelligent people here (salarmy4me, Cam.w st.james to name a few)including pharmacists and doctors. Also, experience speaks for itself.
>
> I am frustrated with my life and chronic 'underachievement' and still have no answers after years of seeking help.
>
> So, I leave my long story in your hands, open to any input, encouragment, ideas, thoughts or advice.
>
> I will begin at the beginning including details which may or may not be relevant (It helps to have all the facts I think). Appreciation to all that read my story, and thanks to those who respond.
>
> I was born in 1974 with an extra thumb on my right hand. The thumb was removed without problem however I was forced to learn to use my left hand to write as my right thumb does not bend. As a child I was a cry-baby and very shy, always seeking my mother for security. This of course drove her nuts over time, and I have been told that on several occaisons she would bribe the neighborhood kids with popsicles to play with me. Predictably, I would cry when they came around and run to her. School started and almost immediately difficulties were evident. I refused to do any type of work whatsoever and was always "day-dreaming", I was not hyperactive at all. At home, I kept myself very very busy with independant projects which I deemed to be important. I invented things, was fascinated by bugs and ants, and had uncanny skills in electronics. At around ten years old I recall having made an electronic burglar alarm system for my room out of a popular magazine. I built and invented many things from scartch and had an insatiable curiosity to know how things worked.
> The point being that outside of school, I appeared to be brilliant yet in the classroom I would produce absolutely nothing. The school became very concerned in grade 4 and decided to have me tested using the WISC-R for a learning disability. Both the school and my parents were absolutely shocked to find that my full-scale score was "at or above the 99th percentile", and that "on a subtest thought to involve practical reasoning, Andrew received a perfect scaled score". My math scores however were at the 37th percentile. After many meetings, an IEP was developed and they decided that I would be put into the county's 'mode3 enhanced learning program'. I didnt like the idea of being stuck in 'nerd class', as I already did not fit in with school kids and was alienated from their activites because I was different.
> So, in grade 5 my life began to go down hill.
> My marks and attention didnt improve with a 'tailored curriculum'; they continued to plumet.
> Report cards from my school years are riddled with remarks like "I am sure if Andrew would apply himself, he would do better" or "Andrew appears to have alot on his mind, little to do with his schoolwork". My memories fail me somewhat, however I believe that I simply just wasnt interested in school work. I wanted to do what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. At home I was busy reading my mothers college nursing books, creating things and LEARNING LEARNING LEARNING. But (in retrospect) I think that it was a kind of passive agression which caused me to do absolutely nothing in school; I refused to let anyone tell me what I needed to learn or how to learn it, I was kind of a 'fuck you' attitude. In grade eight I was selected by a Toronto television station out of thousands of written stories to be a 'student reporter'. I remember when the selection committee was interviwing me and the the other finalists, they were blown away by me (or so my father said who was present) I was talking about how I would changed the world and my inventions and how a television worked and my feelings on Hitler and Korea etc. etc. etc. they were fascinated by this young child who was so aware of the world. Anyways I went on t.v. and intervied a blind lady who used a seeing eye dog.
> I dont mean to toot my own horn, I am trying to convey that as a child I was brilliant and had much potential. Everyone saw it. Everyone was perplexed and frustrated that I would not apply myself in school.
> I dropped out of the mode3 program at the end of grade eight, to the dismay of my parents. I was longing to 'fit in' with my peers and felt that this could not be achieved if I was a nerd. So, grade nine I went to a regular high school. It was a nightmare. I was bullied badly for the first two years. I had no friends. I felt different. I failed most of my courses. I went to summer school and night school but I failed there too. My attendance was excellent, but I refused to do written work, homework, or to study. It was at this point in my life that I began to develope very bad self esteem. I was constantly picked on and called things such as a fag, loser, fat boy etc. I remember eating my lunch in the stairwell under the stairs. Perhaps if a teacher or counsellor had have opened their eyes a little they would have seen that what I needed was some support and somone to talk to, NOT more homework or detentions. I dropped out of high school in grade 14 :-) (I stayed an extra year to try to graduate but gave up) I immediately began working in a warehouse and blew every cent on stupid things, never saving (impulsive). My parents were seperating again for the third time and my mother was verbally abusive. This is when I began to take anti deppresants. My doctor gave my Zoloft and it worked ABSOLUTE WONDERS. It was awesome, fantastic, life was beautifull. Colors were more intense, music sounded better, I was sociable for the first time in my life. I couldnt believe it, It was like I had been transformed or put on a different planet. It was like I had woken up from a long nasty nighmare. I stayed on zoloft for about three months and then discontinued it myself because I couldnt achieve orgasm (let alone get it up) anymore. Of course the 'depression' returned. My doctor gave me a new script for zoloft several months later after life became intolerable again. To my dismay it did not work, he upped the dose and it still did not work. Many years and trials later (I am 28) it still does not work. I have tried at least 15 different antideppresants in a seemingly neverending quest to achieve that same profound effect zoloft had. I wonder if it was a 'better than well' reaction that zoloft had given me? Thats what the controversy over prozac was.
>
> I am getting tired of typing, so I will sum it up. Thanks for hanging in this far!
>
> My life is a sad tragic story of a smart kid who never went anywhere. I start 10 things and finish none. I have very low self esteem and I hate myself. I believe I am ugly and worthless. I am feminine and extremely emotional and empathetic, This actually led to a period in my life where I THOUGHT I was gay; women were never atracted to me and people frequently called my gay. So I figured (in my search for belonging) that they must be on to something. I moved to the gay district in Toronto and started working in gay bars and dating gay men. Of course they welcomed me with open arms; this 20 year innocent young guy who was very eccentric and naive to the 'tricks' of men. ****I have nothing against gays and Its not my intention to offend anyone, however those are MY opinions and experiences******
> To my dismay, I soon discovered I was not gay and was left with mountains of sexual guilt.
>
> I am 28 now. Up until a few weeks ago I was working as a child and youth worker in group homes
> (I kind of sneeked my way into the field through volunteering and using connections) I have worked in this field for the last 5 years.
>
> A year ago, I developed a nasty compulsive gambling problem with slot machines. I have blown about 35 thousand dollars. I am going to gamblers anonymous and I guess it helps a little, however, being an agnostic It is difficult to find a 'higher power'. Three weeks ago I gambled again, my whole pay-cheque again. In the last year I have slept in my car, stolen, borrowed, got fired from the best job of my life due to fraud, attempted suicide. Anyways, I blew my cheque and flipped out in a huge ragefull anxiety attack. I was very scared and drove myself to the hospital; they admitted me on a 'form 1' to the psych ward for about a week. After hearing my story, the psychiatrist there concluded that I have ADD. He started me on dexedrine 5mg BID a week ago.
> The dexedrine hasnt really improved my attention or focus I dont think, however, my mood has lifted to something which resembles that zoloft experience I earlier spoke of. I am VERY confused....Everyone responds to dexedrine..right?
> Am I on a medication or a drug (you know what I mean) I feel like I am cheating somehow.
> Aside from this, I have been in a long argument with my G.P. for years, he is the one who has given me the antideppressants over the years. He says I DO NOT have add; I have depression. I raised the add possibility years ago, but he has always dismissed it. He further says that the depression in my life has caused all of my failures and my view that the world is disgusting and that we are animals. I argue
> that the reason I am depressed is that the world is shitty and digusting and meaningless.
>
> Do you see my dilema? He (g.p.) says that I have been rationalizing the depression. I say "NO!" thats just the way the world is and I see it for what it is because I am smart and different.
> That brings to mind another question; does the depressed mind see life as it really is? Or, Is the 'normal' person being denied reality via ample neurotransmitters? I am really fucked up. I dont know what is what anymore, I think too much, over analyse too much, read my dsm too much and I am very introspective.
> I have always felt that I am "different", profoundly different. I just dont fit in. I feel like I have this deep insight into life that other people just dont see. Maybe nothing is wrong with me, and I am just a loser trying to justify (or rationalize) my failures with diagnoses like add or depression. Who knows?
> Another problem is this; I have read that psychiatrists should be very carefull not to misdiagnose gifted people with A.D.D. They can co-exist however, it is rare. Gifted people tend to be all over the place, hence the old saying "there is a fine line between genius and insanity". If this is true, then what is a smart or gifted person to do? Why dont they have a DSM classification for "too smart disorder".
> I feel that my suicidal ideation is increasing, I cant be strong and percevere forever
> I also question my intelligence; "how can somone so smart be such a fuck-up" maybe I was just having a good day when I was tested and it was mere coincidence.
>
> Are you still with me? Thanks.
>
> I read philosophy now, in my search for answers about conciousness and existence. Unfortunately its all pretty discouraging and morbid stuff. Espescially Nietzsche. I have fallen into this kind of lonely alienated pit of my own thought. I dont know how to get out. And the doctors and psychiatrists in my life seem to be just as baffled as I am. Or they say that nothing is wrong with me and that everyone goes through experiences like mine. I think I need a little validation from people of my intelligence sometimes, however its very possible that some doctors are intimadated by it.
> At the heart of me I think my problems might lay in my longing to fit in. However, its very hard to fit in with people when I see them so condescendingly. People are so shallow and crass. They are selfish, jealous, greedy, conforming pigs. Compounding this, I realise that I AM TOO!!
> I am only human. So maybe its my very existence that sickens me? OR am I depressed? OR do I have add? OR am I just a stupid fucking loser who cant deal with it?
>
> WHAT THE HELL IS DEPRESSION???????????????????
>
> I is absolutely impossible to be objective about that matter if the very brain thats looking at the problem is looking at it though 'depressed eyes'. and if I have always been depressed as my g.p. says, then I dont know the difference! I only know MY reality. So therefore that IS reality.
> I am rambling.
>
> I am just really confused about all this. Humankind has been trying to answer these question forever, and for some reason, I feel like I should be able to do it: maybe I am being to hard on myself. If I am basically taking a 'street drug', Dexedrine, and its making me happier (and maybe focusing me a bit but the doctor says that will take 1-2 week to notice) then is it correcting my brain, or is it drugging me? Is it clouding reality? beyond that, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? If you feel good, then who cares? Well, I do, because I feel like I am lying to myself and denying the truth. But.........They say that MY truth is depressed. whatever.
>
> Please help me. I dont want sympathy, just answers.
>
> Thanks for reading all this crap :-) I am actually suprised that I have been sitting here for over an hour typing, my attention and focus must be getting better.
>
> Andrew.
Posted by loolot on September 18, 2003, at 0:35:52
In reply to Re: WOW » KimberlyDi, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 17:10:24
> How long did you date before you married this guy? I've been through one marriage to an incompatible before. As you said, she didn't really think about anything that wasn't required for her to get through the day. I think a lot of people are like that (or they don't let on otherwise, anyway). It's the difference between people who live in the world, and people who live in their head. If the things in your life don't interest you, you've got nowhere else to go for novelty than into yourself. If only it didn't typically lead to isolation and depression.>>I have noticed that depression makes me question my own judgement. In a situation like this I think a depressed person might think, maybe its just me, he/she is probably interesting to everyone else.
Maybe its not just you!!!
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 18, 2003, at 8:51:37
In reply to Re: WOW » KimberlyDi, posted by blondegirl47 on September 17, 2003, at 17:33:15
> Do you all let your mates know whats going on in your head?
After getting a few blank looks, I stop trying.
> Its hard to find the engergy and the brain power to think about theories, analyzing things, learning new things and seeing the world when you can't find your keys or the purse you put them in :) te he.
> BlondegirlSure Blondegirl! :) ADD interfered with my thinking. Strattera sure helps that. I can remember where I put my keys and purse now.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 9:05:11
In reply to I could spend hours responding to each item... » zarathustra, posted by fachad on September 17, 2003, at 22:14:20
> But your issues are philosophical at root, and are manifesting behaviorally (including cognitive behavior patterns and resultant emotional experiences) so the intervention needs to be at that level. "Plato not Prozac" is a book that you may find helpful.
---------Do you think that it's the stories people believe about the nature and purpose of their existance that keeps them from depression? I have to wonder how many religious people truly believe the things that they report. I know that studies support the idea that relgion helps people live longer. What about it works? Is it the belief in an afterlife? Religions answer questions, but beyond the fear of death, I don't see people really asking the questions. On the occasions that I've talked to people about their religious beliefs (usually because they're trying to save me, being an atheiest), I come away with the impression that I know more about their religion than they do (12 years of Catholic school does that).
Personally, I imagine that natural death for most people isn't horrific because the brain is usually in such a degraded state at the time that the passage into it isn't alarming (or even identifiable). It's like HAL getting his memory removed in 2001. Awareness is whittled away like a dimmer switch, and you can't really point to the moment that conciousness is gone. People tend to think of death in terms of their typical state of awareness and anxiety, though, which is more like facing down a gunman.
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 18, 2003, at 11:48:03
In reply to Re: WOW, posted by KimberlyDi on September 18, 2003, at 8:51:37
I understand completely about the blank look. I think I was feeling a little insecure, because my S.O. has said things like I don't have anything to say to him. Its hard to make conversation when they look at you like you have two heads when you are talking about something.
When I talk with him my first response to what he says is usually wrong, because I take things so literally and speaks figuratively which at times confuses the heck out of me.Anyway enough of that :). I tried Strattera, it helped me sleep really well. Then I started gaining weight. It would help me focus, but I would have trouble not hyper foucusing. I still have trouble with that with dexedrine sr and adderall, but not as bad.
I have a spot for my purse now and my keys automatically go in my purse when I get home. Now if I can just remember to pay the bills I have in my purse...thats getting better too. :)
Blondegirl
Posted by fachad on September 18, 2003, at 12:58:59
In reply to Re: I could spend hours responding to each item... » fachad, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 9:05:11
> Do you think that it's the stories people believe about the nature and purpose of their existence that keeps them from depression?
I think it can work either way - the stories people believe about the nature and purpose of existence are often the cause of depression.
Religious beliefs that are absolute, and include a negative picture of human nature (humans are sinners, an abomination in the eyes of a god or gods) can lead to negative self image and feelings of guilt and worthlessness.
>I have to wonder how many religious people truly believe the things that they report.
Well, some do and many just don't question things that much.
>I know that studies support the idea that religion helps people live longer. What about it works?
Maybe it is the fear of the wrath of an angry god that keeps them in line. You are less likely to indulge in life shortening vices if you think a god is going to eternally torture and punish you for doing it. That could explain why religious people live longer.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 14:02:42
In reply to Re: I could spend hours responding to each item... » Eddie Sylvano, posted by fachad on September 18, 2003, at 12:58:59
> Maybe it is the fear of the wrath of an angry god that keeps them in line. You are less likely to indulge in life shortening vices if you think a god is going to eternally torture and punish you for doing it. That could explain why religious people live longer.
---------If I really believed that I would go on to either never ending torment or endless bliss upon death because of the parameters of my life, I would become a preist (or rabbi, or whatever) in a hearbeat, and I would welcome death. Compared to the afterlife, this would just be considered an abberant, forgettable, immeasurable blip of existance. I'd also be a bit suspect of God. Eternal torture for ~70 years of animal behavior?
Of course, the Big Bang is an artifical end point as well.
Posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:02:10
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post) » Eddie Sylvano, posted by utopizen on September 16, 2003, at 17:23:29
Has Dexedrine improved social skills for anyone here? i suffer from social anxiety and ocd. please help!
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 18, 2003, at 21:21:33
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:02:10
Absolutely! With the dexamphetamine + clonazepam combo, conversation just seems to flow so naturally. It's the most wonderful feeling in the world to be talking to someone and, for the first time in your life, realize they're not judging you, and that they're actually *interested* in talking to you. I've really been loving going to parties and meeting new folks, and I'm usually the one to approach others and introduce myself. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get out much lately as my fibromyalgia has flared up *very* badly, and I may need to switch from Ultram to Subutex, Xyrem, or something.
Posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:44:39
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post) » matthhhh, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 18, 2003, at 21:21:33
Hey Ame, thanks for the reply. So it sounds like the dex or stim med really puts the final touch in eliminating your social phobia.
Do u find that its hard to flow, motivate yourself, connect in conversation with the klonopin alone?
By the way, ive been on wellbutrin now for about a 3 1/2 weeks in combination with the klonopin. So do u think that wellbutrin will give me the same effects as the dexedrine would?
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 18, 2003, at 21:48:05
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:44:39
> Do u find that its hard to flow, motivate yourself, connect in conversation with the klonopin alone?
Definitely. The anxiety would be absent, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable.
> By the way, ive been on wellbutrin now for about a 3 1/2 weeks in combination with the klonopin. So do u think that wellbutrin will give me the same effects as the dexedrine would?
Ummm... I really doubt that. Wellbutrin is said to be more "Ritalin-like" than amphetamine-like, and Ritalin is, in general, a nasty drug for social phobia. But who knows, YMMV.
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 19, 2003, at 11:08:57
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:02:10
When I add 12.5 mg to 2 15 mg dexedrine sr, I get quite chatty. :)
Blondegirl
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