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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TapiocaMonk on May 16, 2003, at 12:42:58
How much should I realistically expect an antidepressant to do? Yes, I am miserable, but maybe it's just me. I don't have a job, I don't have a focus in life, I don't do anything but sleep and eat too much. I have no motivation to do anything at all. Is that depression, or am I just lazy?
I am asking b/c I have tried a string of antidepressants that have had little effect (or some effect that has died out over time), so if it's not the meds, then maybe it's just who I am (lazy, unmotivated, etc.).
I just started taking Parnate, and I do hope that that will do something for me. But how much should I expect a drug to do? When is it depression and when is it just laziness and lack of motivation?
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 16, 2003, at 14:28:38
In reply to What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 16, 2003, at 12:42:58
> I just started taking Parnate, and I do hope that that will do something for me. But how much should I expect a drug to do? When is it depression and when is it just laziness and lack of motivation?
----------------It's remarkable to me that drugs can have the impact that they do, and proof that our daily mindset is due largely to the innate chemistry of our brain. It makes sense to me that the subjective experience of feeling "depressed" is a chemical state, just as the feeling of elation is. The difficulty is in knowing what molecules will be of the most value in modifying your state, since different systems can be involved in different people. If you doubt that drugs can make you feel better, meet a crack addict.
Are you really depressed? That's a dicey question. There are diagnostic tools that physicians employ to grade your depression. You could look into some of the online ones and see how your symptoms stack up. Some good indicators would be duration (feeling bad for longer than a month), causation (are you sad for a reason, or just sad in general), physical manifestations (fatigue, cognitive decline, upset stomach, loss of appetite), anhedonia (the inability to appreciate things you used to), feelings of total apathy and guilt, and sensory disturbances (things seem darker, fuzzier, less real). That's just my personal take. Another good question to ask yourself is how does your current state compare to the state you were in a year or so ago? Depression is a deviation from your normal state (with a few exceptions).
Hope that's of some use in getting started.
Posted by Questionmark on May 17, 2003, at 0:04:30
In reply to What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 16, 2003, at 12:42:58
> How much should I realistically expect an antidepressant to do? Yes, I am miserable, but maybe it's just me. I don't have a job, I don't have a focus in life, I don't do anything but sleep and eat too much. I have no motivation to do anything at all. Is that depression, or am I just lazy?
>
> I am asking b/c I have tried a string of antidepressants that have had little effect (or some effect that has died out over time), so if it's not the meds, then maybe it's just who I am (lazy, unmotivated, etc.).
>
> I just started taking Parnate, and I do hope that that will do something for me. But how much should I expect a drug to do? When is it depression and when is it just laziness and lack of motivation?Those are dang good questions. i feel quite the same. i also do little more than sleep-- but i don't eat either.
Everything's so complicated. i think it's so incredibly difficult to not be lazy when you're really depressed. But i don't think it makes much difference in the grand scheme of things-- laziness is still bad and destructive either way. Just my negative opinion.
i started Parnate recently as well. Hopefully that will help us. i think it should almost definitely be a big help to you, especially since you sound like you might like some appetite suppression.
Regardless, we have to fight, and fight hard. i just wish i knew what to fight for, and what to do. Good luck. You'll be feeling better in a matter of weeks.
Posted by TapiocaMonk on May 17, 2003, at 1:20:49
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by Questionmark on May 17, 2003, at 0:04:30
That sounds right. I guess I have to look at the reasons why I am so lazy and so lacking in motivation. I think I am that way because I have no hope and feel like there is nothing to look forward to in life.
Posted by daizy on May 17, 2003, at 8:29:23
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 17, 2003, at 1:20:49
I have tried doing that! Ive been feeling the same as you and have tried looking into why I feel like it, and everytime I do, I get more depressed. Another thing that bothers me is I keep comparing myself to others, which brings me down, especially as everyone else in my life is relatively happy and successeful, exactly the oppsite of me at the moment. I think Im lazy, emotionless, and ungreatful. Doesnt look great for the future!
> That sounds right. I guess I have to look at the reasons why I am so lazy and so lacking in motivation. I think I am that way because I have no hope and feel like there is nothing to look forward to in life.
Posted by TapiocaMonk on May 17, 2003, at 9:13:25
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by daizy on May 17, 2003, at 8:29:23
>
>I think I am that way because I have no hope and feel like there is nothing to look forward to in life.
Believe me, the more introspective I am the more depressed I get too. I guess what I just realized, though, is that my laziness and lack of motivation may not be depression. But what is depression are my feelings of total helplessness, hopelessness and despair. And it is those feelings that are causing me to be lazy and to lack motivation. What is there to be motivated about if you have no hope that anything you could do could ever make anything better? why even bother getting out of bed?
So, being in bed all day might not be depression itself, but the feelings that keep me there are.
Now I'm rambling. Are you on any meds, Daizy?
Posted by Snoozy on May 17, 2003, at 10:13:18
In reply to What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 16, 2003, at 12:42:58
I think maybe all of you are too hard on yourselves, which is a hallmark of depression too. I would guess that truly lazy people wouldn't be bothered by or care that they were lazy. If you had a really nasty flu or a bad back strain, these things would probably slow you way down too - as they probably should.
I sleep 14-16 hours a day, get a pitiful amount done and I really have to force myself to do even that little bit. I don't think of myself as lazy anymore though - I'm ill. When I'm feeling good, I have motivation and goals and I do stuff.
Just getting out of bed sometimes when you're depressed is a huge accomplishment. I'm not saying I'm ok with how I am - no way! But I try not to beat myself up about it - I have plenty of other reasons to do that ;)
And I try to limit comparing myself to others to schaedenfreude :) Easier said than done, I know.
So, I don't think it's just you.
Posted by daizy on May 17, 2003, at 11:24:30
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 17, 2003, at 9:13:25
"What is there to be motivated about if you have no hope that anything you could do could ever make anything better?"
Yes, exactly?! I have that, its just a general lack of interest and emotion.I also think snoozy is right, I do give myself a hard time, its mostly because I question why this has happened to me, it must be my fault somehow, it must be?. Maybe the same goes for you, do you think you give yourself a hard time? I just dont feel good enough to do anything, and have no hope for the future, all I can see is the time Ive wasted and things Ive done wrong. I was seeing a therapist a while back, and it did help, have you tried? Im on meds whilst they have eased the anxiety, they kinda leave me feeling numb, which is annoying.
Posted by Chris O on May 17, 2003, at 11:52:58
In reply to What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 16, 2003, at 12:42:58
TapiocaMonk:
Do you have any physical symptoms such as fatigue, stomach pain, diarrhea, muscle tension, insomnia, etc.? This might be one indication that you are experiencing depression and are not just "lazy." But calling oneself "lazy" and "unmotivated" sound like you are judging yourself too harshly, one symptom of depression. And the fact that you have sought medical treatment seems to indicate that your feelings have been going on for a considerable length of time, another symptom of depression. And as for the meds not working, that
doesn't mean you are not depressed. As anyone who has tried them knows, each med affects each individual person in different ways.I think my symptoms are a bit different from yours (I'm more on the anxiety, sleep disorder end), but I too wrestle with the same type of introspection that you do. I tend to come down on the side of:
What is the purpose of life on this earth? It just seems like there is so much suffering and pain...and why should I get motivated if everything I do results in nothing at all? Medication (SSRIs) alleviates my physical symptoms to a degree, but I still ruminate a lot on questions of motivation in life, even when taking the meds. Have you tried any "natural" approaches to your condition, such as fish oil? They haven't worked for me, but I've heard some people claim success on them.
Posted by maryhelen on May 17, 2003, at 16:17:29
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by Chris O on May 17, 2003, at 11:52:58
Hi TapiocaMonk:
You say that you are miserable, but maybe it's just you.
* you don't have a job
* you don't have a focus in life
* you don't do anything but eat and sleep too much
* is that depression, or am I just lazy
* you are not motivatedIt sounds like a Catch 22. If you did find a job you would have a focus in life. You couldn't sleep so much and would probably not eat so much and you would not consider yourself lazy.
Or, is it because you are depressed you cannot achieve these things. My personal bet would be depression.
I know many people who don't have a job, who do not have a focus in life, eat too much or too little, have no motivation, are as lazy as hell but are as happy as, well I can't use the expression I want to, but, they are happy in their life and do not want to change it. They are happy watching TV all day, visiting with their friends at night and collecting their social security cheques (and feel they deserve it). When offered any opportunities to change this they do not want to.
I have also tried a myriad of medications and combinations and continue to do so, yet I am still depressed and very hard on myself, but I know it is the depression and not me. I don't know why it happens to some of us and not others. It is just the way it is.
I do not think that what you are describing is the 'real' you. My hope for you is, that, finally the Parnate will work for you and then you will know for sure that this is not who you are.
All the best and hang in there.
maryhelen
Posted by TapiocaMonk on May 18, 2003, at 14:58:24
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by maryhelen on May 17, 2003, at 16:17:29
I guess you're right, Maryhelen. I don't have a job, but when I did I was even more miserable than I am now. At my last job, I would cry in the bathroom and the work was so stressful and the hours so long that I managed to put on about 50lbs in the course of a year.
I really do hope that Parnate works for me b/c I don't think the SSRIs have anything left to offer for me.
Posted by katia on May 18, 2003, at 15:58:02
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 18, 2003, at 14:58:24
> I guess you're right, Maryhelen. I don't have a job, but when I did I was even more miserable than I am now. At my last job, I would cry in the bathroom and the work was so stressful and the hours so long that I managed to put on about 50lbs in the course of a year.
>
> I really do hope that Parnate works for me b/c I don't think the SSRIs have anything left to offer for me.God, it's sooooo good to connect and not suffer in silence! and alone thinking I'm the wierdest person in the world! all of the above posts are soooo familiar to me. I agree w/ most in that this unmotivation you feel is a big sign of depression and the fact that you are hard on yourself and cry in the bathroom(done that!) is another symptom of depression.
good luck with the parnate.
katia
Posted by judy1 on May 18, 2003, at 17:22:37
In reply to What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 16, 2003, at 12:42:58
I think it's too much to expect a pill to fix all the problems you listed. It's really important to have a therapist help you formulate a plan and coping skills so once the depression starts to lift you'll have a positive direction to go. take care, judy
Posted by agencypanic on May 18, 2003, at 21:39:49
In reply to Re: What if it's just me? » TapiocaMonk, posted by judy1 on May 18, 2003, at 17:22:37
I've been asking myself the above question for some time now too. I'm also
unemployed and very unhappy. I spend a lot of time curled up in a ball in my bed
and can't seem to focus on anything. I was treated for depression 7 years ago with zoloft and find
myself wishing now that I'd continued taking it. The second time through with it, zoloft didn't work. Neither has lexapro and now
I'm trying Effexor xr. While I can't say that I'm happy that others are feeling this way too, it is nice somehow knowing
that I'm not alone. I wish you all the best.
Posted by Questionmark on May 19, 2003, at 0:39:10
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by agencypanic on May 18, 2003, at 21:39:49
Ah, such beautifully descriptive posts. How i identify with so much of it. Daizy said, "I just dont feel good enough to do anything, and have no hope for the future, all I can see is the time Ive wasted and things Ive done wrong." That's such a great description. And Chris O.'s explanation-- so fitting also.
Yeah, TapiocaMonk (and others), i was thinking and, they're completely right. Depression can be a 100% explanation for laziness-- it destroys the motivation of a person. And what Maryhelen (and i think Snoozy) said is such a good point. There are people who are incredibly lazy but are completely happy with it. You seem to hate your "laziness" but are just too freaking depressed to do anything-- that's a world of difference. When you're depressed out of your mind you can't help .. well, yeah.
Sorry, i don't know why i just reiterated what others said. ijustwantedto. But yes, when you're feeling good, it's amazing how much motivation you can feel that didn't even seem possible. i believe Parnate's going to help you alot.
Posted by maryhelen on May 19, 2003, at 10:14:32
In reply to What if it's just me?, posted by TapiocaMonk on May 16, 2003, at 12:42:58
It sure is nice to know we are not alone.
I woke up this morning in tears. I am so tired of my life wasting 'away', everything except the 60 pounds I put on while taking Remeron. I had a good response from Parnate and then I was starting to go down again so my pdoc wants to 'kick start' it. We tried the Lithium but I couldn't take the side effects and I am now starting out with, yet another med, Lamitcal to augment the Parnate. I am wondering if the Lithium was helping the depression. I hate these medication changes. I feel so dead inside and everything I do is a monumental effort. I went yesterday to visit with my daughter and four young grandchildren. Shouldn't that make me feel good? I know I love my daughter and grandchildren with all of my heart, but I don't FEEL it. I could make a list of what 'should' be good in my life. I know I am not a lazy person, more of a perfectionist, which has it's own problems. I could go days without getting a shower or brushing my teeth. Maybe wash the cups when I had none clean left to make a cup of tea, but, of course, I could go to the store across the street to get cigarettes. The store may as well have been 10 miles away.
Katia: I agree with you that it doesn't matter whether you have a job or not you're still miserable. I just returned to my job after 2 years and besides being depressed I now have the added stress of being the secretary in a busy school office and learning the four new computer progams I missed when I was away. This should be good. I am 51 and not at all computer savvy and even when typing this thread, I thought when I couldn't scroll down further I had gone on too long (which I probably have) but then realized you have to keep typing in the window to continue. My principal is going to love me. However, many people can become depressed because they can't find a job. We are all so different. One thing I am sure of depression 'holds our hand' no matter where we go or no matter how well we hide it.
Questionmark:
I woke up really down this morning and made myself get out of bed and come on the computer to get my mind off things. I read through this thread and your comment 'Sorry, I don't know why I just reiterated what others said. I just wanted to.' struck 'my sense of humour' and made me laugh and that I do not do very often. Thanks for getting my day off to a better start.
Hang in there Tapioca! We are in this together.
maryhelen
Posted by katia on May 19, 2003, at 13:27:35
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by maryhelen on May 19, 2003, at 10:14:32
> It sure is nice to know we are not alone.
>
> I woke up this morning in tears. I am so tired of my life wasting 'away', everything except the 60 pounds I put on while taking Remeron. I had a good response from Parnate and then I was starting to go down again so my pdoc wants to 'kick start' it. We tried the Lithium but I couldn't take the side effects and I am now starting out with, yet another med, Lamitcal to augment the Parnate. I am wondering if the Lithium was helping the depression. I hate these medication changes. I feel so dead inside and everything I do is a monumental effort. I went yesterday to visit with my daughter and four young grandchildren. Shouldn't that make me feel good? I know I love my daughter and grandchildren with all of my heart, but I don't FEEL it. I could make a list of what 'should' be good in my life. I know I am not a lazy person, more of a perfectionist, which has it's own problems. I could go days without getting a shower or brushing my teeth. Maybe wash the cups when I had none clean left to make a cup of tea, but, of course, I could go to the store across the street to get cigarettes. The store may as well have been 10 miles away.
>
> Katia: I agree with you that it doesn't matter whether you have a job or not you're still miserable. I just returned to my job after 2 years and besides being depressed I now have the added stress of being the secretary in a busy school office and learning the four new computer progams I missed when I was away. This should be good. I am 51 and not at all computer savvy and even when typing this thread, I thought when I couldn't scroll down further I had gone on too long (which I probably have) but then realized you have to keep typing in the window to continue. My principal is going to love me. However, many people can become depressed because they can't find a job. We are all so different. One thing I am sure of depression 'holds our hand' no matter where we go or no matter how well we hide it.
>
> Questionmark:
>
> I woke up really down this morning and made myself get out of bed and come on the computer to get my mind off things. I read through this thread and your comment 'Sorry, I don't know why I just reiterated what others said. I just wanted to.' struck 'my sense of humour' and made me laugh and that I do not do very often. Thanks for getting my day off to a better start.
>
> Hang in there Tapioca! We are in this together.
>
> maryhelenI'd say if depression holds my hand, it's fingers are razor blades!
sorry to hear you're so down. good luck with the new job. computers are only intimidating at first.
Posted by Snoozy on May 19, 2003, at 16:17:56
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by maryhelen on May 19, 2003, at 10:14:32
Hi maryhelen -
I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but I had a much easier time learning to use Windows XP than the new washing machines and dryers in my building! I still don't have the hang of them!
Posted by TapiocaMonk on May 19, 2003, at 16:18:01
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by maryhelen on May 19, 2003, at 10:14:32
>Hang in there Tapioca! We are in this together
That is good to hear. If it's any consolation, I really can relate to your experiences and your frustrations with medications and the feeling that life is just wasting away.
Posted by Questionmark on May 19, 2003, at 22:10:21
In reply to Re: What if it's just me?, posted by maryhelen on May 19, 2003, at 10:14:32
> Questionmark:
>
> I woke up really down this morning and made myself get out of bed and come on the computer to get my mind off things. I read through this thread and your comment 'Sorry, I don't know why I just reiterated what others said. I just wanted to.' struck 'my sense of humour' and made me laugh and that I do not do very often. Thanks for getting my day off to a better start.Oh good. i'm glad i could, thanks.
i hope everything works out well for you. It can, and should.
This is the end of the thread.
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