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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 0:38:25
I'm down to 1/8 of a pill (I think that's right, 1/2 of a 1/4?) and am feeling pretty crappy. I am taking dramamine to help me rest and to take away the nauseau. I'm not sure as to how long I will stay at this dosage; as others have said in some ways I feel like I'm just prolonging withdrawal. After this I'm going to every other day, every third day, etc.
Posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 19, 2006, at 17:01:31
i'm so glad to hear something is helping you. hang in there...
i'm going to try that breathing website you sent as i've had a lot of anxiety when going to bed lately. i think it might help.
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:41:01
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
Hello Jules:
I don't want to jinx myself but I have been using the breathing, 4 in and 4 out, and my chest stuff has abated quite a lot. I actually slept close to 7 hours the past two nights. It really freaks me out to think I can feel sooo bad for a week or more and then in the span of a few days feel somewhat better.
It really is up and down. I am very, very cautiously optimistic that I may see some up days. I do wake up early still but I am laying down on the floor about 10:30 or so and then making it into bed later. I woke up about 5:45 or so and am awake and there is no way to get back to sleep but that is ok. I am just hoping some day the alarm will wake me up. If I can get 6.5 to 7 hours I am happy. Still feel kind of weird at times and my stomach is still tense but some progress has been made. Man, that ten days or so prior to that was hell. And doctors will say there is no W/D!! What a lie.
Have you had any depersonalization stuff? It is better but I was really kind of freaked out the last week. Thank you for you posts! Keep plugging away.
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:44:49
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
Hi,
I just wanted to let you know that when I went to 3.75 mg I had a very hard 3 weeks. I almost thinkg the startle effect and some other symptoms were worse than when I went totally off. But, there are other symptoms which I have written about since going off. Nausea was one of the worst and feeling really down.
try some breathing excercise like I posted above to relax you. I don't know if alternating days is the best for this med. What does the doc say? Remember for tapering there is no prize for doing it quick ya know? Good luck
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jeninco, posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:44:49
Johnny,
Doctor says it should be completely out of my system by 2 weeks, so she's NO help at all. I barely felt the witdrawal until around that time last time.
I was okay going to 3.75; the only symptoms I felt were that it no longer knocked me out for sleep which was the reason I was put on it in the first place.
But I definitely feel nauseau at 1.875. And it seems to be coming on faster than before. My doctor would say it was all in my head. :(
Glad to hear you are having better days.
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 15:33:36
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
Believe me, it is not in your head. It is real withdrawal. I was told the same thing and my doc looked at me like I was making it up. I will take my experiences and others over med pushing docs anyday.
I went from 3.75 to zero and I was mistaken that is what you have done. Others have done the 1.85 or 2 mg too. I found the 7.5 to 3.75 to be very real in withdrawal and I know a doc would not agree. Again, I felt the same when I withdrew from my benzo. When I went to zero it was the worst, then the best.
hang in there
johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:18:24
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
>
Hello:If you dont mind I would suggest to stay on this dose for at least 2-3months.. and then Stop. if you skip days yu just mix the biochemistry up I think.. Remeron has a very long half life..and then the titer in your blood will be up and down. You want to be consistently lowering the dose at a linear rate I would think.. then it shoud be easier... That's my suggestion.. but of course its up to you.
the other posts ive read and people skipped doses ,they had trouble.. its like your brain will have an"x" amount of drug one day, then if you skip one day it will decrease to another amount"y" , then if you take a pill the next day you have now gone back to "x" dose and so on.. Then the body CANNOT adjust.... it justs yo's yo's.Good luck
Musky
I'm down to 1/8 of a pill (I think that's right, 1/2 of a 1/4?) and am feeling pretty crappy. I am taking dramamine to help me rest and to take away the nauseau. I'm not sure as to how long I will stay at this dosage; as others have said in some ways I feel like I'm just prolonging withdrawal. After this I'm going to every other day, every third day, etc.
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:21:30
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
> Hey jules .. I thought you were doing not bad?? wondering why you are getting anxiety again??? after 4months off?? I wonder cause my past experience before Remeron was with amytriptylene and I noticed that after 3months off , thats when it was kinda a delayed w/d.. and I was worse then , then at the first weeks off.. strange... but then i think thats when the body has no drug at all and needs to rely now totally on its own resources to kick in..
Musky
i'm so glad to hear something is helping you. hang in there...
>
> i'm going to try that breathing website you sent as i've had a lot of anxiety when going to bed lately. i think it might help.
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:27:13
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:41:01
>
Hi Johnny:Good to hear you are improving.. yes it sounds like you had hell days..
Me Im up and down.. today was bad day.. VERY tired.. woke up at 3am?? then stressed, and tense and lots of dizzy , weak, headaches. etc... and then anxious thoughts.. almost went back to acupuncture before my next app time(not til next week), but now it seems to have passed a bit.. just took it easy tonight and tried to change my mind... just trying to keep going..
Today is 1month off Remeron.. and like you say docs dont believe you when you say w/d .. they are full of it...they should take the drug and see how they feel!!!!keep hangin in
musky
Hello Jules:
>
> I don't want to jinx myself but I have been using the breathing, 4 in and 4 out, and my chest stuff has abated quite a lot. I actually slept close to 7 hours the past two nights. It really freaks me out to think I can feel sooo bad for a week or more and then in the span of a few days feel somewhat better.
>
> It really is up and down. I am very, very cautiously optimistic that I may see some up days. I do wake up early still but I am laying down on the floor about 10:30 or so and then making it into bed later. I woke up about 5:45 or so and am awake and there is no way to get back to sleep but that is ok. I am just hoping some day the alarm will wake me up. If I can get 6.5 to 7 hours I am happy. Still feel kind of weird at times and my stomach is still tense but some progress has been made. Man, that ten days or so prior to that was hell. And doctors will say there is no W/D!! What a lie.
>
> Have you had any depersonalization stuff? It is better but I was really kind of freaked out the last week. Thank you for you posts! Keep plugging away.
>
> johnnyj
>
>
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:37:11
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
> Jenico:
ITs NOT all in your head... you know your body better than anyone.. you are in it 24/7 how could you not..
Yes they tell yu the drug is out of the body in 2 weeks... what they DONT tell you is that the BIOCHEMISTRY has been altered and THAT is what the w/d is and takes time..
I dont see how they can say 2 weeks ,when they tell uyou when you go on it that it takes SEVERAL weeks to build a titer in the first place..
Also women metabolize Remeron much slower than men. I researched and found out that it takes 37hrs to reach half life.. and thats HALF life(for women).. and only 26 hrs (about) for Men. so when you think about it.. 1/2 of 1/2 in 37hrs. then that half has got to break down... etc.and remember when you are on the drug you are constantly BUILDING It in the bloodstream So for example say you were taking 30mg.. well in 37hrs if you didnt take anymore drug , there would be 15mg left in the blood .. BUT if you are taking the pills everyday... then 15 would be left and then after 24hrs you would take another 30mg right(next dosage)... therefore you would have the 15mg still and the new 30mg.. so my point being it keeps building in the system.. so when the docs rx. 30mg ,,, really ITS not what is ACTUALLY inthe body after weeks and weeks..
I hope this isnt too confusing.. but to me this is very scary..
Anyways keep going slowly off ... takes timeMusky
Johnny,
>
> Doctor says it should be completely out of my system by 2 weeks, so she's NO help at all. I barely felt the witdrawal until around that time last time.
>
> I was okay going to 3.75; the only symptoms I felt were that it no longer knocked me out for sleep which was the reason I was put on it in the first place.
>
> But I definitely feel nauseau at 1.875. And it seems to be coming on faster than before. My doctor would say it was all in my head. :(
>
> Glad to hear you are having better days.
>
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:43:45
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jeninco, posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 15:33:36
>Exactly johnny... its w/d.. yes and the doc looked at me strange too, that it was my IMAGINATION.. that i anticipated it.. like hell.. I got this stuff happening, then read about the symptoms... anyways it doesnt matter... the last time i trusted those doctors and kept taking the meds.. it ended me up in the psyche ward for 6 weeks... NO, this time I listen to me.. and to God.. thankyou.. i will stick it out... however long it takes.. crappy and all. I dont want to be trappped on mind altering meds... its been a pure nightmare to say the least..
I just wished i knew more then how to cope that I do now so i wouldnt have ended up crashing.. I blame being on so many meds then finally ending up on Remeron.. worse experience of my life this medication stuff...
Well good luck
keep posting.. Hope i got some good mood days coming and lower anxiety levels...Musky
Believe me, it is not in your head. It is real withdrawal. I was told the same thing and my doc looked at me like I was making it up. I will take my experiences and others over med pushing docs anyday.
>
> I went from 3.75 to zero and I was mistaken that is what you have done. Others have done the 1.85 or 2 mg too. I found the 7.5 to 3.75 to be very real in withdrawal and I know a doc would not agree. Again, I felt the same when I withdrew from my benzo. When I went to zero it was the worst, then the best.
> hang in there
> johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 22, 2006, at 8:52:24
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:27:13
Well, after two decent nights I hardly slept last night. Just could not fall asleep and then when I did I was back up at 4 AM. I just don't understand all of this up and down stuff. Everything is up and down. Head tension is back to very bad right now and dizzy, etc. It is hard to know if this is expected or not. But, the two prior days I slept better since stopping remeron so that is somewhat encouraging.
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 22, 2006, at 14:22:23
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:18:24
I guess I'm just going by past experience. I went off zoloft (half life of 27 hrs I read) pretty easily, and that was taking a sliver every other day, every 3rd day, etc. I would think with the longer half life this would work. But we'll have to wait and see. I'm not sure I want to stay on the tiny amt for 2-3 months though. I know it's not a race to be over.... The 1.8 dose seems SO FREAKING insignificant. It's hard to believe it can do anything at all to your body.
Posted by johnnyj on June 22, 2006, at 14:51:02
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:27:13
Musky,
I am amazed, but probably shouldn't be, at how many symptoms we have that are identical. I am now 1 month off and am very tired. Strange things going on inside my body that is for sure.
We had storms last night that helped keep me awake and I found out I did not pass a certain certification I was going for so I was down. This probably affected me last night.
I have been having a lot of stomach tightness, like I just did 200 situps, and it moves up and down my chest too. Some burning sensation in my chest too. If it is bad sleep is hard to come by it seems to be an extension of anxiety that keeps me from being totally relaxed. I never had this before remeron. I guess one month is a short time off this drug and I need to be patient. I may look into something to help me sleep like skullcap or something.
One thing I am not getting is the startle effect when going to sleep. That appears to have been caused by the remeron.
Hope things even out sometime soon for all of us. I am thinking we have a long road ahead of us. I remember a poster that said he/she was on remeron for neck pain and it took 2 months for the anxiety and nausea/flu like stuff to calm down and (gulp, 8 months for the sleep) to get back to normal. I don't think it will take us that long but decent sleep will come (please, please).
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by jules354 on June 22, 2006, at 16:04:49
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:21:30
hey musky,
i think it's just stress, and i think maybe the remeron has been helping me deal with stress, so now without it i'm needing to lean more on my other coping mechanisms. but if it's also a bit of w/d, i'm not too surprised. esp with the stuff you posted about women and the drug half life.
btw the breathing stuff helped. i try to be conscious of my breathing from doing yoga etc but it's hard to remember when you're really anxious!
hang in there everybody...
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 23, 2006, at 14:26:20
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 9:27:40
Hey Cashy,
I just read this post as I was looking for some reassurance as I haven't slept well the last two nights. The two nights before that I slept rather well even thought I was irritable during the day. How are things going for you? Are you sleeping any sounder? I have had a lot of chest stuff and sometimes I just want to give up and take it again. It is hard to know what is past depression and what is W/D. I have been on meds for over 10 years so I almost don't remember what I was like off of them. take care
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 23, 2006, at 14:28:51
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by jules354 on June 22, 2006, at 16:04:49
Jules,
When did your sleep start to improve some? Did you feel you started to sleep sounder at some point or just longer? I need some rest soon.
johnnyj
Posted by jules354 on June 23, 2006, at 15:49:22
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 23, 2006, at 14:28:51
hi johnnyj,
i think it was about 2-4 weeks into it when i started sleeping more soundly as well as longer, and not waking up startled and anxious. how long has it been for you again?
take care,
jjules
Posted by johnnyj on June 23, 2006, at 16:24:39
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 23, 2006, at 15:49:22
Hi,
It has been 4 weeks. I had two really nice nights, with deeper sleep, 2 nights ago and then the last two nights have not been good. They actually regressed some which is troubling. I had acupuncture today so I hope that does something. He mentioned chamomille tea so I may try it. My heavy head is not as bad but I do have heavy chest or stomach stuff that I never had before remeron. When I slept decent a few nights ago that was not that bad so I think when that abates my sleep will improve.
If I had a decent, deep, 6.5 hours I would be estatic right now. As it is around 5 or light sleep. I also have to use the bathroom so much and I try not to drink too much but AD's have always caused the opposite for me so going off makes sense to see a rebound. This is such a powerful drug. I am thinking it may take 6 weeks or so before my sleep improves. I hope the old stuff is not returning. I am trying to remain calm and use that website and tapes to calm.
Did you take anything to help sleep? benadryl?
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 23, 2006, at 21:21:09
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 23, 2006, at 16:24:39
I have been taking one dramamine pill at night. It may be helping, it may not, but I'm sleeping better than I have in months. When I got down to 1/4 of a 15 mg pill I stopped getting the drowsy affect. But, I'm still sleeping on 1/8 of a pill.
Posted by musky on June 23, 2006, at 23:05:48
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 23, 2006, at 16:24:39
>
Hey Johnnyj:I know what you mean by sleep.. mee too if I can get good sleep I am stronger, calmer etc.. Last night was pretty good , slept about 6 hrs and then woke at 6am.. instead of the 4am that it has been since stopping the Remeron.. So i think slowly maybe the sleep patterns normalizing. The problem is i wake up and then within about 20minutes have anxiety again.. always this way every morning.. thats what I hate so far about all of this.
Did you get this? or anyone else?? when does a person wake up in a good mood and feel refreshed?? I hope this all evens out as when I get this feeling it changes my attitude... ever since meds both the past and Remeron I havent felt good inside.. I hope that comes back , like the real enjoyment of things again. I think some slowly are returning(emotions). but too soon maybe to tell. Its one month for me too... I try to not get too impatient for normal again..
At least i dont have that startle reflex happening anymore these days since being off. Remeron always gave me that stupid jerking when trying to get to sleep..
yes, acupuncture should help with insomnia.. I am taking my Calcium/.magnesium supplement before bed and also some chammomile tea, or sleepy time tea, plus hot bath.. try these things.. try to avoid any meds or even otc drugs for sleep.. I know people are mentioning here benadryl. but even that is soo sedating, and leaves you groggy head in am... but whatever you want i guess. my point being is to be med free and well again..musky
MuskyHi,
>
> It has been 4 weeks. I had two really nice nights, with deeper sleep, 2 nights ago and then the last two nights have not been good. They actually regressed some which is troubling. I had acupuncture today so I hope that does something. He mentioned chamomille tea so I may try it. My heavy head is not as bad but I do have heavy chest or stomach stuff that I never had before remeron. When I slept decent a few nights ago that was not that bad so I think when that abates my sleep will improve.
> If I had a decent, deep, 6.5 hours I would be estatic right now. As it is around 5 or light sleep. I also have to use the bathroom so much and I try not to drink too much but AD's have always caused the opposite for me so going off makes sense to see a rebound. This is such a powerful drug. I am thinking it may take 6 weeks or so before my sleep improves. I hope the old stuff is not returning. I am trying to remain calm and use that website and tapes to calm.
> Did you take anything to help sleep? benadryl?
> cheers
> johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 24, 2006, at 22:37:44
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 23, 2006, at 23:05:48
Hey Musky,
I don't know what to say as so many times I read your posts and they read like my experiences! YES, I have the same thing after waking up, this anxiety feeling creeps in rather soon. It isn't like a panic attack just this weird, nagging sort of feeling. I do also have a lot of tension stuff in the stomach which moves up and down my chest, along with a burning sensation some times.
I slept ok last night and when I woke up on the couch I was in a deeper sleep than I have been but still woke up again at 4 am and then slept on and off for a few more hours. It gets to a point where the nagging anxiety creeps back and then sleep is not going to happen anymore.
I too have not had the startle since stopping remeron. I always suspected the remeron had something to do with it. I bought some chamomille tea and I hope that helps some. I am going to try and find skullcap tea too. I know what you mean about waking up and feeling rested and happy to get going. That feeling I long for too.
Have you googled "remeron, dr. Kramer"? You will find some old posts by about remeron withdrawal. It is a good read.
You mentioned something about working with research people or something? Have they said anything about remeron and adrenals? If I remember correctly I think remeron affects them and this takes a lot of time to settle down. I wish I knew what vitamins, foods, teas, etc., that would be good to take.
I am trying to plug away. It is hard, but not much of a choice right now.
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 24, 2006, at 22:40:22
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 23, 2006, at 21:21:09
Good for you! I may have to think about dramamine. I don't want to rely on one think every night but try something when I really need it as to not create dependancy. Thanks for the info.
cheers
johnnyj
Posted by jules354 on June 25, 2006, at 21:41:02
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 23, 2006, at 16:24:39
hi johnnyj,
in the first week i took Nyquil to help me sleep. i was desperate and i had enough left in the bottle to last me a week so that's when i stopped. by that time i wasn't as freaked out about not sleeping as much as i was used to. i haven't taken anything since that first week...but i didn't have sleeping problems before going on remeron, so maybe i was lucky not to have a more serious time with it?
take care
jules
Posted by musky on June 26, 2006, at 0:27:34
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 24, 2006, at 22:37:44
>Hey Johnnyj:
Ya I cant believe it either , us having so similar experiences on and off this drug..
Yes this anxiety is not fun... I just keep forcing it thorough.. Today was worse since stopping.. I was irritable ALL day, and then almost crying at little things, feeling sorry for myself.. annoyed at things, then got a huge fight over nothing with my husband.. I just wanted to run .. it was soo crazy today... I was very tense in the head, and face and dizzy... just couldnt shake it.. I almost thought maybe i should go earlier to acupuncture but my appointment is this Friday again.. Seems to have FINALLY settled down tonight.. worked on my music... that is always a good distraction for me..
Hey i meant to askyou another question.. did you or do you ever get where you have to just "scrunch up your face"? LIke its hard to explain.. its almost like i have to do this movement to release this overwhelming tension i feel.. I NEVER had this feeling until I was on the Remeron, and now again after stopping its picked up again.. it went away for a bit while i was tapering.. Im scared its a side effect, ? permaanent?? who knows... but it comes and goes.. Today was worse since i was soooo tensed up today..
AS for me working with the research people, yes, they did mention the adrenals.. its all true, and yes it will take time for those glands to settle down... months,.... so this could be what both of us are feeling right now.. who knows.. All i know is this drug did "something to me"" and I must keep plugging away as you say..
Thanks for the info on the google site, dr. kramer I will check out old posts..
I hope my mood is more stable tommorrow..
its been just over 1month now and really i thought maybe it wouldnt get worse, but now maybe the REAL Fight begins??? LIke why is all this w/d stuff so up and down and delayed i wonder???Hang in there... Its GOT to get better gotta believe it.
Oh my sleep is still not the greatest, but then better than say 2weeks ago.. I can get to sleep ok, but still waking up about 4am or 5am.. wide awake, cant doze back for the next few hours .. I hate this part.. and then the anxiety creeps in after Im up about 10-15minutes.. its soo wierd..
Musky
Musky
Hey Musky,
>
> I don't know what to say as so many times I read your posts and they read like my experiences! YES, I have the same thing after waking up, this anxiety feeling creeps in rather soon. It isn't like a panic attack just this weird, nagging sort of feeling. I do also have a lot of tension stuff in the stomach which moves up and down my chest, along with a burning sensation some times.
>
> I slept ok last night and when I woke up on the couch I was in a deeper sleep than I have been but still woke up again at 4 am and then slept on and off for a few more hours. It gets to a point where the nagging anxiety creeps back and then sleep is not going to happen anymore.
>
> I too have not had the startle since stopping remeron. I always suspected the remeron had something to do with it. I bought some chamomille tea and I hope that helps some. I am going to try and find skullcap tea too. I know what you mean about waking up and feeling rested and happy to get going. That feeling I long for too.
>
> Have you googled "remeron, dr. Kramer"? You will find some old posts by about remeron withdrawal. It is a good read.
>
> You mentioned something about working with research people or something? Have they said anything about remeron and adrenals? If I remember correctly I think remeron affects them and this takes a lot of time to settle down. I wish I knew what vitamins, foods, teas, etc., that would be good to take.
>
> I am trying to plug away. It is hard, but not much of a choice right now.
> cheers
> johnnyj
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