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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 120 to 144 of 169. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on August 4, 2010, at 12:46:58
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling?, posted by Justherself54 on August 4, 2010, at 11:38:14
> I don't respond well to them either. It's uncomfortable. Also runs the risk of the "messenger being shot".
I get sick at my stomach when I see "blocked again" or whatever he uses for his subject line. I know then that he is trying to get the guilt train loaded and moving.
You have given me more to think about by mentioning the "messenger being shot" risk. Thanks.
Posted by fayeroe on August 4, 2010, at 12:48:53
In reply to Re: blkd for 3 weeks..who felt put down? how? » fayeroe, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 11:31:43
Is that a problem for you?
Posted by fayeroe on August 4, 2010, at 13:49:03
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling?, posted by alexandra_k on August 2, 2010, at 7:43:33
""and I see other posters as responsible for not trying to help him avoid the block."
Bob, I sure hope that you don't teach classes and use the tactics that you are attempting to use on us.
I think Bob could say "Student A, you are failing this class".
I think that Bob might then say "Class, if Student A fails this class, I will see you as responsible for not trying to help him avoid failing the class".
Posted by sigismund on August 4, 2010, at 15:31:21
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » sigismund, posted by PartlyCloudy on August 4, 2010, at 8:02:20
>Yes! And I, for one, do not respond well to requests that appear to be shame-based.
PC, let's say you or I were in this situation.
Can you imagine explaining to me how I might apologise or vice versa.
It's not that we don't care at all. It's just that it's (mostly) inappropriate.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on August 4, 2010, at 17:42:58
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » PartlyCloudy, posted by sigismund on August 4, 2010, at 15:31:21
> >Yes! And I, for one, do not respond well to requests that appear to be shame-based.
>
> PC, let's say you or I were in this situation.
>
> Can you imagine explaining to me how I might apologise or vice versa.
>
> It's not that we don't care at all. It's just that it's (mostly) inappropriate.Well, first I would want to know what was uncivil about what I had said, because I don't believe that had been pointed out - isn't the relevant FAQ usually referred to in the warning? It seems odd that a phrase has been teased out of an entire post, deemed uncivil, but none of us are told why it's considered so.
And then I would decide whether what I had said might have been construed as being uncivil or not. I might not even decide it was worthy of a response; I might wonder if I was being made an example of, and then I would mentally shrug my shoulders, let the process take its course, and figure out if it was important to me to take a stance or not.
I might decide that it was a molehill that was trying mightily to become a mountain, and that I didn't want to help it along.
But that's me.
How about you?
Posted by fayeroe on August 4, 2010, at 19:05:05
In reply to Re: The Question Remains: Why Is Babble Not Babbling?, posted by sigismund on August 3, 2010, at 15:28:17
It comes back to that famous (but not famous enough) quote of Karl Rove told to Ron Suskind -
The aide [now known to be Karl Rove] said that guys like me [writer Ron Suskind] were in what we call the reality-based community, which he defined as people who believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. That's not the way the world really works anymore, he continued. We are an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you are studying that reality judiciously, as you will, we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history, actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
The above, my friend, I found on the Politics board where I had gone to post about Prop 8's being overturned by a federal judge...I will continue on my way now. P
Posted by violette on August 4, 2010, at 23:56:41
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » PartlyCloudy, posted by sigismund on August 4, 2010, at 15:31:21
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:06:27
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » sigismund, posted by PartlyCloudy on August 4, 2010, at 17:42:58
I've never read a FAQ.
Perhaps some innate deviousness has made it natural for me to master the civility rules.
Just like home.
So, I'd (probably) know what was uncivil, and it would merely be a question of whether I was willing to do the public recant and repentance.
If you wrote to me arguing (as in "Darkness at Noon") that some greater good in which I believed justified my misrepresenting myself, or differently, if you were to argue that I had already misrepresented myself (not too hard) I would listen and perhaps agree.I grew up in a family where there were often correct and cold relations, so the civility rules seem to come naturally to me.
I remember Seldomseen's good post about form vs content, something about the spirit of the post is up to you.
That stung a bit, my spirit being what it is.
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:19:50
In reply to Re: The Question: ^^^Interesting^^^ » sigismund, posted by fayeroe on August 4, 2010, at 19:05:05
>He cut me off. That's not the way the world really works anymore, he continued. We are an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you are studying that reality judiciously, as you will, we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history, actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
Is that postmodern?
Geez. That moment has passed perhaps?
Just so no one gets the impression that I am an anti-American monomaniac, I should recount what Niall Ferguson, the conservative economic historian, said about the current (dispiriting because the issues are not addressed) Australian election.
Something like....
Australia may well become an economic colony of China's. Maybe the best option for Australia is for it to be sold to China which will then put in the infrastructure.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on August 5, 2010, at 7:57:13
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » PartlyCloudy, posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:06:27
> I've never read a FAQ.
> Perhaps some innate deviousness has made it natural for me to master the civility rules.
> Just like home.
> So, I'd (probably) know what was uncivil, and it would merely be a question of whether I was willing to do the public recant and repentance.
> If you wrote to me arguing (as in "Darkness at Noon") that some greater good in which I believed justified my misrepresenting myself, or differently, if you were to argue that I had already misrepresented myself (not too hard) I would listen and perhaps agree.
>
> I grew up in a family where there were often correct and cold relations, so the civility rules seem to come naturally to me.
> I remember Seldomseen's good post about form vs content, something about the spirit of the post is up to you.
> That stung a bit, my spirit being what it is.Ah. I hear you, Sig. (So often, much of the discussion sails right over my pointed head.) My family was a strange collection of forced happy faces, plastered over whatever we may have been genuinely feeling. Anything less than beaming sunshine-y smiles resulted in being sent to one's room. (I spent a lot of time there, as I was always the one to point out that there was an enormous elephant sharing the house with us, and it was taking up a lot of space.) Civility was not something that was apparent, as absolutely everything HAD to be Great! Lovely! Well Done! regardless of form or content. Crazy making for certain, at least for this member of the family. Consequently, and also as a result of my extensive (may I say exhaustive?) training to be the shortest-serving deputy in the history of Babble, I look for those references to the FAQs.
But, as Bob has also said with reference to civility, there are times when he knows it when he sees it. I mean you no slight in my pondering of what the original poster might have intended.
PartlyCloudy, bumbling.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 8:13:09
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » PartlyCloudy, posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:06:27
Seldomseen is very wise.
Muffled also influenced me a lot in that area.
In fact, Dr. Bob might have taught me a lot about civility, but other posters taught me a lot about generosity of spirit.
(Although I must confess that my OCD probably helps my good intentions. Cognitive dissonance makes me feel very anxious.)
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 15:36:57
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » sigismund, posted by PartlyCloudy on August 5, 2010, at 7:57:13
>My family was a strange collection of forced happy faces, plastered over whatever we may have been genuinely feeling.
I suppose it was that way until someone cracked?
A perfect preparation for an addiction.
It was with us.
I have to say that change only occurred when someone could no longer go on.
Then it came in an avalanche and it was time for ECT.
Not very flexible and adaptive :)
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 15:49:59
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » sigismund, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 8:13:09
>Cognitive dissonance makes me feel very anxious.
So you would perhaps not be keen on following two courses at once?
>When we wear out our minds, stubbornly clinging to one partial view of things, refusing to see a deeper agreement between this and its complentary opposite, we have what is called 'three in the morning'.>The truly wise man, considering both sides of the question without partiality, sees them both in the light of Tao.
This is called following two courses at once.I wonder how you would feel about something woolly like Hegel. (Not that I've bothered with him myself.) At least one of the academics being satirised in Alice in Wonderland would have been a Hegelian. Anyway, here is the relevant quote
>Oh, don't go on like that!' cried the poor Queen, wringing her hands in despair. `Consider what a great girl you are. Consider what a long way you've come to-day. Consider what o'clock it is. Consider anything, only don't cry!'
>Alice could not help laughing at this, even in the midst of her tears. `Can you keep from crying by considering things?' she asked.
>`That's the way it's done,' the Queen said with great decision: `nobody can do two things at once, you know. Let's consider your age to begin with -- how old are you?'
>`I'm seven and a half, exactly.'
>`You needn't say "exactly",' the Queen remarked. `I can believe it without that. Now I'll give you something to believe. I'm just one hundred and one, five months and a day.'
>`I ca'n't believe that!' said Alice.
>`Ca'n't you?' the Queen said in a pitying tone. `Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.'
>Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said `one ca'n't believe impossible things.'
>`I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!'
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 16:10:55
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » Dinah, posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 15:49:59
Well, I wouldn't say that. I'm a big fan of dialectical behavior therapy.
I meant it more specifically. That it causes me distress when I post in a way that doesn't coincide with my view of myself.
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 19:03:20
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » sigismund, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 16:10:55
> I'm a big fan of dialectical behavior therapy.
Does the dialectic come into that?
People use the term dialectic in different ways, and I never understand what it means really.
I think it depends on how creative you are.
As in when Lenin said of Bukharin that despite his many good qualities and his popularity that he had never understood the dialectic.Or people might use the word to suggest a process that is not linear or circular perhaps.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on August 5, 2010, at 19:05:38
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » PartlyCloudy, posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 15:36:57
> >My family was a strange collection of forced happy faces, plastered over whatever we may have been genuinely feeling.
>
> I suppose it was that way until someone cracked?I always thought that stuffing was what went into a roast goose until I started therapy :-)
>
> A perfect preparation for an addiction.Yes, there's an enormous family collection of us, for generations going back. If it wasn't an addiction, it was mental illness, or sometimes, a double whammy. The legacy is appalling.
>
> It was with us.
> I have to say that change only occurred when someone could no longer go on.
> Then it came in an avalanche and it was time for ECT.
> Not very flexible and adaptive :)I forget if you do hugs or not. I don't want to presume.
pc
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 19:10:49
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » sigismund, posted by PartlyCloudy on August 5, 2010, at 19:05:38
>I forget if you do hugs or not. I don't want to presume.
I just do what the natives do, generally :)
(PC)
Posted by PartlyCloudy on August 5, 2010, at 19:54:21
In reply to Re: Why Is Babble Not Babbling? » PartlyCloudy, posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 19:10:49
(Sig)
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2010, at 20:25:01
In reply to Ron's 3 wk blk. Please, a show of hands of all the, posted by fayeroe on August 2, 2010, at 1:30:47
> I feel that the statement is manipulative, stomach roiling, disgusting, childish, childish, childish
I'd like to ask anyone who gives a sh*t about fayeroe -- or objects to blocks in general -- to do what they can to try to prevent another block.
Protests haven't proved all that effective at preventing blocks and may even encourage behaviors that lead to them. You have the right to protest (as long as you're civil), but if your goal is to prevent another block, please consider a different strategy.
Bob
--
> You all seen my 6 week ban ... i recieved e mails from babbler,s saying sorry for the ban.But only a couple spoke on babble. That speak,s to me as you wanted me banned, or you didnt give a sh*t. I think thats what bob means about helping each other. The Block didnt hit me hard but the lack of support did.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20100716/msgs/956872.html
> You have the power to pick your battles.
>
> Battling Dr. Bob on PB Admin? Generally results in frustration and effects on policy ranging from
> - none
> - the exact opposite of what you intended to accomplish
> - some other seemingly random policy change that isn't what you wanted.
>
> Choose wisely!http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/893534.html
Posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2010, at 20:36:55
In reply to Re: another block, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2010, at 20:25:01
> > I feel that the statement is manipulative, stomach roiling, disgusting, childish, childish, childish
>
> I'd like to ask anyone who gives a sh*t about fayeroe -- or objects to blocks in general -- to do what they can to try to prevent another block.
>
> Protests haven't proved all that effective at preventing blocks and may even encourage behaviors that lead to them. You have the right to protest (as long as you're civil), but if your goal is to prevent another block, please consider a different strategy.
>
> Bob
>
> --
>
> > You all seen my 6 week ban ... i recieved e mails from babbler,s saying sorry for the ban.But only a couple spoke on babble. That speak,s to me as you wanted me banned, or you didnt give a sh*t. I think thats what bob means about helping each other. The Block didnt hit me hard but the lack of support did.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20100716/msgs/956872.html
>
> > You have the power to pick your battles.
> >
> > Battling Dr. Bob on PB Admin? Generally results in frustration and effects on policy ranging from
> > - none
> > - the exact opposite of what you intended to accomplish
> > - some other seemingly random policy change that isn't what you wanted.
> >
> > Choose wisely!
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/893534.htmlI used an "I" statement and described how a STATEMENT caused me to feel. How is that not civil?
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2010, at 20:45:50
In reply to Re: another block » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2010, at 20:36:55
> I used an "I" statement and described how a STATEMENT caused me to feel. How is that not civil?
The FAQ links to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2010, at 21:10:12
In reply to Re: another block, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2010, at 20:25:01
Bob said "I'd like to ask anyone who gives a sh*t about fayeroe -- or objects to blocks in general -- to do what they can to try to prevent another block."
I feel very privileged to have really good friends here at Babble. We've stood together, we've agreed and disagreed and then came together concerning one huge point of contention here.....the block system and how we've been told to help another poster avoid being blocked.
There have been countless heartfelt statements here about the feelings that the "suggestion" stirs within us. None of us who posted about it held back. We've listed many, many negative and hurtful feelings that come out when we read the "suggestion" that we're offered when that old block time rolls around.
I know how you feel about it! You know how I feel about it!
I do not want any one of you to feel that because you do give a "s*it" about me, you should ignore what we've posted. I do not want you to compromise your integrity by trying to talk me into doing something to avoid a block.
I want you to "stand tall" in front of your keyboard. Be proud! Remember being in the Scouts, remember the Alamo, remember Bluebirds, Campfire Girls and remember to NOT step in.
Undoubtedly some of us spilled secret feelings that we've had when we've read the "suggestion". I know I did. We have enough feelings from our past to last us a lifetime, don't compound them by giving into "giving a s*it about Fayeroe".
My user name comes from the one of the most wonderful dogs that I have been privileged to have in my life. She was killed by my neighbor after he assaulted me in 2009. Fayeroe had fought off two burglars in 2004 (at age 2) and received 4 life-threatening stab wounds. Fayedy was the bravest dog that I've ever known. I believe that Fayeroe was needed in another place and that she guards and supports while she does her job. I know that she still guards me. I feel her spirit near me.
I taught Faye to find pot and cocaine while we lived in Oklahoma. We were going to move into cadaver recovery but we moved to Texas and I dropped those plans. She was so smart. It took her 10 days to learn to find pot. 4 days on the coke. Drug searches are dangerous at times and I decided that we would not be "on call" when the local police department was overloaded.
"Faye" is for a past president of Planned Parenthood. I was honored to serve on the board of directors of the OKC chapter of Planned Parenthood for 5 years while she was our national director. "Roe" is for, naturally, roe. vs. wade. Fayeroe!
Fayeroe was loyal, strong, sweet, silly (had a stub tail that wagged her butt) and compassionate. She picked up a baby duck at our creek one day and I yelled "no" and she gently set it back down on the ground. The duckling ran to the creek, jumped in and swam away with it's siblings. As far as I know, Fayedy never hurt anything intentionally. She didn't mind it when the little terrier, Lita, came to live with us and she loved our cats. She allowed the toads, in both gardens, to live without fear of her. She might stop and look but she did not touch them.
I'm proud of my user name just like I'm proud of Faye's spirit.
She is gone but her spirit remains.
Posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2010, at 21:14:01
In reply to Re: another block........Don't do it...... » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on August 5, 2010, at 21:10:12
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 21:50:58
In reply to Re: another block, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2010, at 20:25:01
Dr. Bob, why did you phrase it that way? Don't you know that there are many of us who care about Fayeroe but don't feel that what you request is the best way to show it to *her* (as opposed to you)?
I just don't understand. People have expressed their feelings about the phrasing pretty strongly. Yet all you see is whether or not they give a sh*t about Fayeroe?
I may well have phrased my own objections in a less than politic fashion myself, and if so I'm sorry. But I hope you heard what I was saying as well as the way I said it.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 21:54:27
In reply to Re: another block, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2010, at 20:25:01
Hmmm... Never mind. I see you did, at least in part.
But do you perhaps see why doing what you wish would not feel caring to Fayeroe? When you give the gift of caring, you kind of have to keep the recipient in mind.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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