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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 210 to 234 of 304. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on April 20, 2009, at 13:13:21
In reply to ((((Fayroe)))))), posted by muffled on April 20, 2009, at 13:10:59
HOW TO CLEAN THE HOUSE
1. Open a new folder on your PC ....
2. Name it 'Housework.'3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.
4. Empty the Recycle Bin.
5. Your PC will ask you,
***'Are you sure you want to delete Housework permanently?'**** :-)
6. Calmly answer, 'Yes' and press mouse button firmly ...
7. Feel better?
Works for me!
ROFL!!!! someone sent this to me!
Posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 14:33:09
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 20, 2009, at 9:22:30
So Bob had decided to re-involve himself with Babble?
Perhaps Bob could find a way to look at some of the people he has blocked more charitably.
Capricious blocks (zazenducke) inevitably lead to resentment.
Posted by rskontos on April 20, 2009, at 19:18:28
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 19, 2009, at 20:46:41
>>>The "herd" here seems to be willing to let Fayeroe fall overboard. But maybe people are trying to support her behind the scenes. I hope so.>>>>
This baffles me. How is Fayeroe falling overboard?
And another thing, Dr. Bob you said:>>understand that posters may want to feel accepted by me. I do accept all posters, but I think it's unlikely that I'll grow to accept uncivil posts. understand that posters may want to feel accepted by me. I do accept all posters, but I think it's unlikely that I'll grow to accept uncivil posts. Is not blocking posters the way for me to show I accept them?
Something I have noticed is this appears to be the first time you have taken exception to a Babbler being uncivil to you. You asked Verne to apologize to you, this I don't remember ever happening before. You always seemed ok with uncivility directed at you but now the rules seemed to change when we weren't looking. Just my observation.
>>>Is not blocking posters the way for me to show I accept them?
If you mean to show acceptance you would limit blocks to a REASONABLE time, the answer is YES!
rsk
Posted by rskontos on April 20, 2009, at 19:23:23
In reply to housework, posted by muffled on April 20, 2009, at 13:13:21
OH MY GOD,
muffled I nearly fell off my chair laughing.
I plan to do that today once and for all so I can FORGET that my house needs to be cleaned!!
I wonder if we can put Dr. Bob in that delete file.
rsk
Posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:29:24
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on April 20, 2009, at 19:18:28
For reasons not clear to me, some people get the chance to apologise and some do not.
Posted by zenhussy on April 20, 2009, at 19:38:15
In reply to Re: an opportunity » rskontos, posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:29:24
Posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:50:07
In reply to yes.very confusing as to which folk are 'some ppl' (nm) » Sigismund, posted by zenhussy on April 20, 2009, at 19:38:15
Well, one wouldn't expect some people to be given the chance, some slates taking longer to clean and all, so it's not entirely caprice.
Posted by verne on April 20, 2009, at 19:52:52
In reply to Re: an opportunity » rskontos, posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:29:24
I almost feel singled out because my apology was accepted and others weren't. Sure, my apology was vague and lots left to interpretation.
Dr Bob, please put all subsequent (not sure I spelled that reight) blocks, on my account.
I wish to rebutt, rebuff, and completely refurbish my previous apology. Whyile, I'm still sorry for all the trouble I caused, any sort of apology to Dr Bob is void. I retract it.
Please remove any previous blocks on this thread and add further blocks to MY account.
More weight.
no hard feelings, anybooble.
Verne
Posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:56:35
In reply to Clarification of Mud, posted by verne on April 20, 2009, at 19:52:52
I think jade thought quite hard and tried to come up with as close to an aplogy as she could muster, though it perhaps was more an explanation.
Posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 20:00:45
In reply to Re: yes.very confusing as to which folk are 'some ppl' » zenhussy, posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:50:07
I fear I have provoked this by suggesting Verne was given a chance that others were not.
He's certainly egalitarian.
Posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 20:23:00
In reply to Clarification of Mud, posted by verne on April 20, 2009, at 19:52:52
Salem had come to mind before you mentioned this.
There are lots of paradigms out there.
Posted by raisinb on April 20, 2009, at 21:05:08
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 19, 2009, at 20:46:41
"You're right, supporting someone who runs afoul of my policies by helping them avoid a block afterwards doesn't help me enforce those policies. Helping them not run afoul of them in the first place would, but helping them avoid a block afterwards just means one fewer missing loved one."
Actually, my point was the opposite--that helping others "rephrase" or whatever is not "supporting" them--it's supporting you and your current policies. Supporting other posters, as I said, consists of different actions that we're all involved in every day.
Posted by verne on April 20, 2009, at 21:36:36
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dr. Bob, posted by raisinb on April 20, 2009, at 21:05:08
More weight!
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 8:23:43
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dr. Bob, posted by raisinb on April 20, 2009, at 21:05:08
I hesitate to post about this, because I may be seen as part of the problem.
But I've done what Dr. Bob suggested many times, with the intent to be supportive of my fellow posters, not to help him. Before I was a deputy I did it. I do it in offline life too.
If I think it will be welcomed, or not make things worse, I still do it.
If a friend, in any situation Babble or not, is getting very upset and is on the path to having consequences that may not be what they would like, I generally try to encourage them to step back and think about what they're doing. I generally try to help them gain distance and perspective, so that they can decide if this is really something that will further their goals. If this is really what they want. If this is, pragmatically speaking, the best way to get to where they wish to go from where they are now.
I'm a pragmatist to my toes.
Even if I think someone is completely justified in how they feel in any given situation, I still think pragmatic concerns are something that it is helpful to consider. I appreciate it when my friends encourage me to do the same.
And if I think that perhaps there is more than one way to look at a situation, I think I'd consider it part of my responsibility as a friend to suggest looking into other possibilities.
To me it appears that this has come to be a discussion about posters encouraging each other to apologize to Dr. Bob. I'm not sure Dr. Bob intended it that way. I'm seeing this as a continuation of some of his previous posts, from maybe a year or so ago?, about posters taking on a larger role in the administration of Babble. In this case, not by policing and reporting, but by defusing and encouraging compliance, peer to peer, poster to poster. I think we do that many times in many situations, in a very civil way. I also think there are limits to how effective that strategy can be, and Dr. Bob might be running into those limits. If the discussion can be broadened a bit away from individual posters and apologies to Dr. Bob, and toward posters taking on some administrative responsibility for encouraging civility as well as reporting incivility, my guess is that some of the misunderstandings on this thread could be minimized. Maybe an agreement in principle could be reached. Something along the lines of "This is something that posters are willing to do and in fact already do in many instances. But there are occasions when posters do not feel this is an appropriate role for other posters, and is best left to Administration." Which is just a suggestion. I don't pretend to understand the dynamics involved well enough to come up with a comprehensive agreement in principle. Perhaps a better statement might be "Posters do not feel it is appropriate for them to take a larger role in administering Babble, and think the top down model is the way to go." Or something entirely different, but of course respectful and civil.
I *do* think that sometimes posters are fully cognizant of the results of their posts, and would not consider other posters urging them to apologize as supportive. I think that posters are trying to convey that to Dr. Bob right now. I do understand that a poster has the right to choose to protest what they see as unjust laws by choosing to do what they are aware will result in a block.
I do wonder, pragmatically, if that is the most helpful path to change. It's been going on for some time, and I haven't seen a lot of change from Dr. Bob in response. In Dr. Bob's position, I don't think I'd be as swayed as I would be by people choosing to stay around and persuade him with logic that changes should be made. I suppose there is the effect on other posters. Is it enough? A few posters have mentioned on this thread that they've received a lot of support for their stance. But the history of protests on Babble would suggest to me that the tactic is not the best route to change Dr. Bob's heart and mind. Which believe it or not, can be changed.
Just my humble opinion, for whatever it's worth. Which in this situation, given my position as deputy, is probably not worth much. I wasn't always deputy, and I'd have said the same then. If that makes any difference whatsoever.
Posted by verne on April 21, 2009, at 8:58:15
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 8:23:43
I'm such a dim bulb, I only understood about 1% of your post. How can a post be that long yet still be incomprehensible?
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, especially Dr Bob's, or appeal to any sort of logic - unless it's real low-watt or twisted.
I just like to cause the maximum amount of trouble and let others sort it out.
More weight.
the imp
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 11:57:38
In reply to Imps are never around when you need them » Dinah, posted by verne on April 21, 2009, at 8:58:15
I wish you wouldn't speak ill of yourself. I think you got the gist of what I said.
> I just like to cause the maximum amount of trouble and let others sort it out.
I will respect that you know better than I what your motivations are. But you've been posting here a long time, Verne. I've seen you give and receive support. Do you think that at one time, if not now, that was your goal for being here? If that has changed, do you think it was blocking policies that changed your goals here? The reaction you received from Administration or fellow posters?
I imagine that if the goals of some posters is to cause the maximum amount of trouble, that might be seen by Dr. Bob as in conflict with his own goals for Babble. Not that I have any particular insight into Dr. Bob's view of it.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 19, 2009, at 20:46:41
I'm so glad for these threads on admin. If it wasn't for threads like these I could almost find myself being tempted to return here. Reading threads like this reminds me how people genuinely care about posters and about Babble more generally, which prompts them to put a great deal of time and energy into clearly conveying concrete suggestions for how Babble could be more friendly and accepting (e.g., by having less punative punishments) and then how Bob manages to miss that point entirely and strongly imply that posters don't care for their fellow posters insofar as they aren't working hard to encourage them to tow his line. Somehow Bob's doing this isn't considered uncivil. It isn't thought to be jumping to conclusions about the intentions of others. It isn't thought to be being uncharitable towards the intentions of others. Any suggestion that this is so is thought by Bob to be an expression of the posters pathology. Wow. So much has changed since the two or three or however many years since I have been able to get a post on the boards which isn't up for immediate deletion. As gg was fond of saying (when she wasn't snorting in a non-sarcastic fashion) 'the wheels on the bus go round and round'. Reporting my PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTION as FACT (and not as expression of feeling or opinion) I have a little throw up in my mouth right now. Quite literally.
I really can't believe that I used to support Bob in his civility rules. Whenever I couldn't understand why he interpreted those words uncharitably I'd charitably construct a little story to myself that justified his actions. Over and over and over. Over time it got harder and harder to do. Such inconsistencies between one being blocked for f*rt or sh*t without an asterisk whereas another was not. Massive searches in the archives to try and charitably construct why on earth one was a blockable offence whereas the other was not. I was destroyed when I found that I could not. Literally blown apart. There was no rhyme or reason. Bob was blocking people for up to one year for ARBITRARY reasons that weren't consistently applied. If the blocks weren't so punative one could forgive a little inconsistency. But Bob was blocking people for up to one year for ARBITRARY reasons.
Threads like this... Posters put so much time and effort into stating their views clearly. Into providing concrete suggestions of how Bob could interfeare less with the support and education that posters provide to one another here. And Bob proceeds to... Well... It starts to look like he almost willfully misses the point. Or maybe that isn't it. Maybe it is that... He just can't face it. Sometimes people have mental blocks. Something that they just can't face. Maybe this is one of those things for Bob. He just can't accept that his blocks have been damaging in a way that isn't for the good of the group after all. Maybe it would be like being a Nazi soldior or something. If you genuinely believed that killing Jews was for the good of the Aryan people then killing Jews might be distasteful to you to be sure, but if was for the good of the Aryan people so it was justified. Finding out that the Jews were people too and that one had really damaged them a great deal... Finding out that killing them really wasn't benefiting the Aryan people in any way well... I wonder how many suicides there were. Maybe the thought that the punitative punishments here are needless is something that Bob... Just can't face. I mean it is something that both posters and other professionals have been saying to him for years.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2009, at 19:14:42
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:16:54
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
((( Alex )))
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 19:19:08
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
But he gets his small boards after all. As posters come to appreciate the situation for what it is: Seeing the wheels go round and round with not much change to the punitive punishments (or only a temporary change till the pressure is off then things can go right back to what they were). People are posting less. The archives are down. Less diversity of posting names. Sure he has got a little story to himself about how its correlated with him being around less or about how its correlated with his dissociation from google but if he really wanted to know he could manipulate those variables... He didn't need to gate entry from the community as a whole, he just needed to let the community see how the wheels were turning and the gating into the community as a whole, well, took care of that problem for him. Threads like this help to be sure.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 19:23:44
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 19:19:08
If you really cared for your black sister you would tell her to stand the hell up and give the white man his seat.
Can't you see how f*ck*ng offensive that is?
Posted by BayLeaf on April 21, 2009, at 19:40:24
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
It'a really great to hear from you again. This place needs your voice.
Bay
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 20:06:55
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
> I really can't believe that I used to support Bob in his civility rules. Whenever I couldn't understand why he interpreted those words uncharitably I'd charitably construct a little story to myself that justified his actions. Over and over and over.
And what is worse I thought that being a good friend to people meant working with them to try and help them understand why they had been blocked. I'd come up with little stories that seemed to make sense of Bob's blocking them. I'd try and help them see that that was why they were blocked thinking that if they could understand what they did wrong they could see how to alter their behavior in the future. I thought they would see that the block really was for the good of the group and that things would be nicer if they altered their behavior in future. I remember telling them that I could empathize with their feeling bad and that I was trying to help them as a gesture of friendship.
I lost friends over that. Larry Hoover. When he was blocked for being righteously angry with Deneb for posting something about how she was going to hurt herself of something like that. I thought I was being a friend to him. I thought that that was how one could be a good friend. You don't know what it means to be a good friend, do you Bob. I understand Larry's feeling on that now. He had the physiological reaction that I did above. He did not take kindly to my doing that.
I guess Bob didn't think that Larry and Deneb were good enough friends for them to be able to sort things out. I guess Bob didn't have much faith that other posters would step up to help them understand where each other was coming from. I don't think Bob knows what it means to be a friend.
Why don't you go away Bob? You were basically gone for a while and I thought I could return if you weren't around. But then you come back and post innane things like you have done on this thread. Covert incivilities and judgements of negative intent and whatever whatever all phrased so its technically within the guidelines imparted to you by God along with divine command on appropriate retribution for infractions. Why don't you go away and let people support each other? People have been saying this: Go away. If you are only going to come here to block and be uncharitable towards the intentions of others go away. Your presence here is not benign.
Posted by Sigismund on April 21, 2009, at 20:38:01
In reply to Re: an opportunity » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:16:54
Alex is back!
This has made my day.
Posted by rskontos on April 21, 2009, at 21:40:26
In reply to Re: an opportunity » rskontos, posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:29:24
Yep that is something I noticed too.
rsk
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