![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 9:15:21
I work in a state juvenile center, who has rules, many rules. But it only works if the rules are enforced ALL the time for EVERYONE. Any lapses in enforcing all the rules towards everyone, causes HUGE disruptions to the working system.
I have noticed other very successful mental health sites who have rules, but not rules on how you should phrase your words. I have not seen near the problems as I have seen here. Blocks are very rare. Offending post are removed as to stop the disruption. It seems to work very well. Maybe we should look at other boards successes and model after them, because the rules on Babble do not prevent uncivilness, if anything it creates more uncivilness.
I think since this site has very few deputies to handle many boards, and many people. Sites with this many members, who use "deputies" has a lot more people to enforce the rules.
This site either needs more deputies, less people on the site to manage, or more relaxed rules, because there will continue to be disruptions if the rules are not being enforced for everyone.If Babble is going to have so many rules, without enough deputies to enforce them for everyone, Babble will continue to have disruptions.
I am not dissing the deputies, I am just saying we need more of them in regards to how many posters that are on this site, plus the amount of rules that need to be enforced.
Posted by muffled on January 22, 2009, at 9:35:09
In reply to What I have noticed...., posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 9:15:21
Ya, I agree that there is something not working here....
I try so hard and understand, but I can't.
I too post on another board and there seems to be few problems.
I don't know what it is that makes the difference?
Blocks do seem to be a real issue.
Sigh I dunno the answers.
Wish I did.
Best wishes to all.
M
Posted by fayeroe on January 22, 2009, at 9:45:58
In reply to What I have noticed...., posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 9:15:21
> I work in a state juvenile center, who has rules, many rules. But it only works if the rules are enforced ALL the time for EVERYONE. Any lapses in enforcing all the rules towards everyone, causes HUGE disruptions to the working system.
>
> I have noticed other very successful mental health sites who have rules, but not rules on how you should phrase your words. I have not seen near the problems as I have seen here. Blocks are very rare. Offending post are removed as to stop the disruption. It seems to work very well. Maybe we should look at other boards successes and model after them, because the rules on Babble do not prevent uncivilness, if anything it creates more uncivilness.I agree with you that the civil rules cause more problems than good. It seems to me that interpetations of the rules vary day to day.
>
> I think since this site has very few deputies to handle many boards, and many people. Sites with this many members, who use "deputies" has a lot more people to enforce the rules.I suggested weeks ago that we might benefit if each forum had it's own deputy. I didn't get one reply from administration.
> This site either needs more deputies, less people on the site to manage, or more relaxed rules, because there will continue to be disruptions if the rules are not being enforced for everyone.There is a problem when the posters start moving posts and have to take such actions upon themselves. No reason for that, except the fact that we do not have enough deputies to "police" this site.
>
> If Babble is going to have so many rules, without enough deputies to enforce them for everyone, Babble will continue to have disruptions.
> I am not dissing the deputies, I am just saying we need more of them in regards to how many posters that are on this site, plus the amount of rules that need to be enforced.It all goes back to Bob. He owns the site and makes the money here. Actually, he is the banker and we make the deposits for him.
>
Posted by Dinah on January 22, 2009, at 10:36:33
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by muffled on January 22, 2009, at 9:35:09
I thought it had been made known that Dr. Bob does not wish us to patrol the boards per se. He wishes for posters to take on part of the responsibility for board civility by reporting posts to Administration. Deputies are posters as well, and can report something ourselves if we see it. But he *does not wish* for us to patrol the boards in general. He wants posters to take on some of that responsibility. There are of course exceptions. But that is his general wish.
I recognize that sometimes posts are reported and the deputy decision is that the post is not in violation of civility guidelines, and that that may be frustrating to posters. However, the fact remains that the current system depends on poster notifications for consistency, by Dr. Bob's design and by Dr. Bob's instructions to us. Our decisions are also based on Dr. Bob's policies and instructions to us. And though Dr. Bob is not as visibly present on the boards, he does review notifications and our responses to them. If he believes that something is uncivil, he will let us know and we will act accordingly. But if notifications aren't made, he won't be able to do that.
This was greeted with appreciation when the policy was first announced, but most policies have both positive and negative aspects.
However, it would be unfair to blame this situation on deputy busyness. Deputies have actually always been concerned about this change in policy because of concerns about consistency. But over time, I've come to see that there are advantages as well in that sometimes posters work things out themselves.
If you wish to ensure board consistency, please report posts you believe to be uncivil.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 15:23:15
In reply to Dr. Bob's policies, posted by Dinah on January 22, 2009, at 10:36:33
I have informed deputies including you over a month ago, maybe 6 weeks or more of several posts (now are most in the archives because it has been so long) that I thought were uncivil. You told me you were busy at the time, and would get to it, but you weren't the only deputy notified, all of them were.
I have not heard back since then about the notifications, and yes my babble mail has been on and you and the deputies have my personal email, along with Dr. Bob.I also see it as a problem that blocked posters can't use the notification button.
So if the new rules are that we (the babblers) are suppose to police ourselves and notify the deputies, then are told they are too busy to deal with the notifications, what are we suppose to do? Notify, Dr. BOb? Well yes I did that too, NO communications or attempts have been make to even address my notifications have been made.
So the notification system is not working as I see it, or only certain notifications are even reviewed. So it makes some of who have been on the receiving end of veiled uncivilness, to take the law into our own hands. So yes, my actions have been harsh to some, but it the problems were dealt with, there would be no need to take such extreme measures.
So if we are going to have these rules, and the I statement rules are VERY picky rules, then we need to have them enforced for everyone.
I believe it would be a good idea that if deputy sees a thread that could be trouble, and they warn someone on that thread, they should at least be available to review all the messages after the warnings. If there isn't time to police the whole thread or the whole problem, then all should be ignored, because it isn't fair that only some posters get warned and no other who commit the same uncivil acts.
This is why I find it best to leave here, it isn't safe for me, because I am seen as a trouble poster, my posts are viewed harsher, and more likely to have the notification button pushed by a member who don't like me.My notifications are not taken seriously or ignored. There is no safety for me here, and that is why it is my final goodbye. I have found a couple of sites who are understanding of those abuse survivors, and PTSD. They offer help and support and understand how it feels to have gone through what I have. They understand the reactions that PSTD causes, and is supportive anyway. I feel this site accept some reactions to various mental issues than others. To me it isn't PTSD, and abusive survivor friendly. I am so glad I have a place to go that can support me.
Having babble policed by other babblers will not work, it will caused prejudice and unfairness because some members will get away with things, and others will always be sanctioned.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 15:38:54
In reply to Dr. Bob's policies, posted by Dinah on January 22, 2009, at 10:36:33
I also wanted to add that the got blocked for saying something, I wasn't given a please rephrase, or a change to work anything out. I was blocked within minutes of posting. This is the post were I said I felt hurt.
I wasn't asked who I was referring to, it was ASSUMED it was about a babbler, I wasn't given another chance to rephrase.
It seems to me if babblers are suppose to try to work things out, then why sanction only certain posters. Can't it be seen that some posters are singled out and always have notifications against them, especially in a feud? Then when that person is blocked, how can things be worked out if they can't post. What about me who didn't even have a chance.
Then of course there is my post in code. It seems like you made a big effort to decipher it, even when you told me you were too busy to deal with my much older notifications? So since you made an effort to decipher it, could it be said that you were Looking for trouble because it was my post.
I don't see no difference in veiled insults than from the one's written in code.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 16:02:14
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's policies ) Dinah, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 15:38:54
Plus I really don't understand how I can be blocked for saying I was hurt by a poster.
Then I am being told that the post above is civil even though is talks about blocked posters being disruptive, causing hurt to other posters, that they need to let things settle, etc, etc, etc.
I just don't get the I statements, I just don't get the those subtle rules. That is why I don't feel safe, I don't even get the rules. I am not a dummy either, I consider myself above average intelligence, and If the rules are confusing to me, I wonder how many people are confused.
The rules of this site has caused more disruption than any so called uncivil message. The rules of this site has caused more conflicts than any so called uncivil post. This site is not working well and needs some big improvements before I become a regular poster ever again.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 16:38:02
In reply to What I have noticed...., posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 9:15:21
If rules are not going to enforced for everyone,with consistency, than they are not going to work. It will no create harmony, only discord. If there is not enough interested in running babble, then it need to be closed down, because it is doing more harm than good.
Rules only work when they are enforced consistently.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 22, 2009, at 22:25:14
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 16:38:02
> If there is not enough interested in running babble, then it need to be closed down, because it is doing more harm than good.
Perhaps for some individuals, but overall???? Can't see how anyone could be certain of the above without some empirical evidence to support the conclusion, especially considering how very many others there are here, too.
gg
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 22:35:18
In reply to Re: What I have noticed.... » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by gardenergirl on January 22, 2009, at 22:25:14
Well because I said so! lol
empirical evidence?Well Freud didn't need it, did he? lol
Sorry, just being a brat...
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2009, at 7:13:54
In reply to Re: What I have noticed.... » gardenergirl, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 22:35:18
lol, me too. :)
gg
Posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 12:55:41
In reply to Re: What I have noticed.... » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by gardenergirl on January 22, 2009, at 22:25:14
> > If there is not enough interested in running babble, then it need to be closed down, because it is doing more harm than good.
>
> Perhaps for some individuals, but overall???? Can't see how anyone could be certain of the above without some empirical evidence to support the conclusion, especially considering how very many others there are here, too.
>
> ggThis was replied to me in the above thread -
> I have been here since the year 2000. I have seen no such agenda on the part of Dr. Bob to foster one opinion over another. Psycho-Babble has neither encouraged nor discouraged the gathering of adversary opinions. Indeed, the rules of civility help guarantee that someone who stands alone in his opinion has as much protection to express that opinion as does the majority to express theirs.
> Believe it or not...
- ScottNo Frankly - I Don't believe it.
Posted by Phillipa on January 23, 2009, at 12:57:56
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 12:55:41
I utilize the notification button and have seen action taken. Well I'm only one person. Phillipa
Posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 13:02:15
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by Phillipa on January 23, 2009, at 12:57:56
> I utilize the notification button and have seen action taken. Well I'm only one person. Phillipa
> Indeed, the rules of civility help guarantee that someone who stands alone in his opinion has as much protection to express that opinion as does the majority to express theirs.
False & plainly Noddy.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2009, at 13:28:07
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 12:55:41
> > > If there is not enough interested in running babble, then it need to be closed down, because it is doing more harm than good.
> >
> > Perhaps for some individuals, but overall???? Can't see how anyone could be certain of the above without some empirical evidence to support the conclusion, especially considering how very many others there are here, too.
> >
> > gg
>
> This was replied to me in the above thread -Humminah???? It's very clear to me that I posted that to someone other than you, and in this same thread, not one above.
gg
Posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 13:40:04
In reply to Re: What I have noticed.... » Trans-Human, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2009, at 13:28:07
> > > > If there is not enough interested in running babble, then it need to be closed down, because it is doing more harm than good.
> > >
> > > Perhaps for some individuals, but overall???? Can't see how anyone could be certain of the above without some empirical evidence to support the conclusion, especially considering how very many others there are here, too.
> > >
> > > gg
> >
> > This was replied to me in the above thread -
>
> Humminah???? It's very clear to me that I posted that to someone other than you, and in this same thread, not one above.
>
> ggHumminah???? &????????? What does that have to do with anything??????????? What I posted was relevant. Your reply is also UNCIVIL!
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2009, at 14:13:52
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 13:40:04
> > > > > If there is not enough interested in running babble, then it need to be closed down, because it is doing more harm than good.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps for some individuals, but overall???? Can't see how anyone could be certain of the above without some empirical evidence to support the conclusion, especially considering how very many others there are here, too.
> > > >
> > > > gg
> > >
> > > This was replied to me in the above thread -
> >
> > Humminah???? It's very clear to me that I posted that to someone other than you, and in this same thread, not one above.
> >
> > gg
>
> Humminah???? &????????? What does that have to do with anything??????????? What I posted was relevant. Your reply is also UNCIVIL!You quoted a passage that I wrote in a post to another poster and followed that with this statement: "This was replied to me in the above thread" (See above for the sequence.) I interpreted your statement to mean that you believed what you quoted had been posted to you, which would not be correct. If I misinterpreted your statement, I apologize though remain confused about why you quoted what you did.
If you review the sequence of posts I've included above, you'll surely see that nowhere did I ever say anything about your post being relevant or not, so I'm not sure I understand your need to assert relevance. But that's neither here nor there.
Finally, thanks for offering your opinion on the civility of my post. I respectfully disagree and encourage you to re-read the FAQ section on civility.
Thanks for the chuckle, chuckles.
gg
Posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 14:57:37
In reply to Re: What I have noticed.... » Trans-Human, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2009, at 14:13:52
> You quoted a passage that I wrote in a post to another poster and followed that with this statement: "This was replied to me in the above thread" (See above for the sequence.) I interpreted your statement to mean that you believed what you quoted had been posted to you, which would not be correct. If I misinterpreted your statement, I apologize though remain confused about why you quoted what you did.
It's very simple - In my post, I quoted what was written above in this thread - Followed by -
"This was replied to me in the above thread" -
Usually a statement is prefixed by what it is relating to. If I had been leading what I had quoted from your thread - then I would have wrote "This was replied to me in the above thread" - above what I had quoted. For me to say that you had re-posted in another thread what had been replied to me in the original thread; when such a thing is plainly not true; must be to assume that I am a complete & utter retard. Do you assume such things about other posters? Surely it would be rational to assume that I had quoted this thread & then said "This was replied to me in the above thread" (Meaning the thread above this one)& then quoted what was said in that "above" thread; "above" this one! As I said - quite simple.
> Humminah???? It's very clear to me that I posted that to someone other than you, and in this same thread, not one above.
> If you review the sequence of posts I've included above, you'll surely see that nowhere did I ever say anything about your post being relevant or not, so I'm not sure I understand your need to assert relevance. But that's neither here nor there.
>You didn't appear to understand the relevance; which I was I said what I posted was relevant. You still do not appear to understand the relevance.
> Finally, thanks for offering your opinion on the civility of my post. I respectfully disagree and encourage you to re-read the FAQ section on civility.
>I respectfully disagree with your opinion too. Both your replies are uncivil, patronising & rude.
I have been told quite a few times to re-read the FAQ's & rules - I have read them thoroughly before I posted anything on this site. I suggest that you read them.
This is the point of my initial reply (in this thread)
Posted by Toph on January 23, 2009, at 15:04:44
In reply to What I have noticed...., posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 9:15:21
> I have noticed other very successful mental health sites who have rules, but not rules on how you should phrase your words. I have not seen near the problems as I have seen here. Blocks are very rare. Offending post are removed as to stop the disruption. It seems to work very well...Success is subjective. The other board may have worked well for you but did not for me despite it's lax rule enforcement. Ironic since I have been a consistent critic of the rigidity here. Every board has it's own culture evolved in part from it's rules but mostly from the history of the interchange of it's participants. Something has always drawn me to the people who inhabit Babble notwithstanding it's opressive nature.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2009, at 16:29:24
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 14:57:37
> I have been told quite a few times to re-read the FAQ's & rules - I have read them thoroughly before I posted anything on this site. I suggest that you read them.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt versus assuming any willfulness on your part. Oh and please note, I use the posting convention where the quote comes first and then the new comment. Thus, this new part added by me is in response to your words denoted above by the ">".
Borrowing now from a favorite childhood icon--Oh bother.
So long,
gg
Posted by Deputy Dinah on January 23, 2009, at 17:16:00
In reply to Re: What I have noticed...., posted by Trans-Human on January 23, 2009, at 14:57:37
> Both your replies are uncivil, patronising & rude.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
You've been warned more than once, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to block you from posting for one week.
Followups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Deputy Dinah on January 23, 2009, at 17:20:26
In reply to Re: What I have noticed.... » Trans-Human, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2009, at 14:13:52
> Thanks for the chuckle, chuckles.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2009, at 10:21:52
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's policies » Dinah, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 22, 2009, at 15:23:15
> My notifications are not taken seriously or ignored.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused (for example, of not taking things seriously), could you please rephrase that? For more about I-statements, please see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
or just ask here. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on January 24, 2009, at 14:53:08
In reply to Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by Deputy Dinah on January 23, 2009, at 17:20:26
Well heck. You can dress me up, but you can't take me anywhere. Not with all that giggling and f*rt*ng and all. ;)
Sorry.
gg
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 24, 2009, at 16:30:52
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2009, at 10:21:52
Okay I will try...
My notifications have taken over 6 weeks or more to have any actions taken or for me to be notified what the decisions are.I feel very unheard. My babblemail has been on the entire time, and you and all the deputies have had my personal email to respond to, since this is how I had to notify, since I was blocked.
I have resent my notifications more than once because I was told they were not received. I still have not heard anything.
Dr. Bob just now got the notifications today sent to him,again, from a deputy, the same one's I emailed him weeks ago.
Just to answer your questions I received from you today,Dr. Bob, I know it may seem overwhelming to get all of them all at once, sent from the deputies today. But the notifications were not made in one day from me, they spanned several days, over 6 weeks ago. I emailed you these a long time ago, as I did the all the deputies, and I haven't heard anything since. The only one who responded was Dinah, who says she will get to them, at the moment she was busy with something at work, and to be patient.
I think 6 weeks or more is very patient considering all those who can do anything about notifications, were all notified.
You say it is overwhelming, and ask where to start, well I was always told "at the beginning."
I could not use the notification button since I was blocked, so I had to take a lot of time to cut and paste all of the notifications, as requested from a deputy. It took over 3 hours to do it once, and another 3 hours to redo it since I was told they didn't receive my email and I didn't save the email. I know it is overwhelming, but can you see how overwhelmed I may be because I have received no communication, so many weeks later after all that work?
I guess since it has been so long, and most of the stuff is in the archives, it would be silly to take any action if needed, since so much time as elapsed.
If anything, I feel a sincere apology for not getting any response for all the notifications I sent, would help. I am probably not the only one who has outstanding notifications.
The notification system is not working well, so something better needs to be done, if you want your rules to be enforced on this site.
Rules only work if they apply to everyone, and if they are monitored to be sure everyone is treated fairly in response to blocks and warnings. Problems happen when the rules are enforced for only a few people on Babble, and not all.
You say blocks aren't a punishment, but when only a few of us get them for committing the same infractions, it does feel personal.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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