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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 47 to 71 of 102. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 15:59:42
In reply to Re: Suggestions and solutions, posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2008, at 18:26:02
>If we weren't notified of every small slight, and some didn't receive administrative attention, it wouldn't be the end of the world. And could even be seen as reflecting the values of the community.
*hmmmm, slippery here....if not notified and its not a major faux pas, then thats OK. Cuz people DO have the option to report if it distresses them. If they choose NOT to report...well...then thats that as far as I am concerned, and its not fair to get snarky bout something if they are not willing to act on it. There IS a choice. And this is where it becomes challenging and we have to have faith.......cuz then we have to trust the deps to make the best judgements they can....and if they get only one complaint and it doesn't appear to be a major issue...they may choose to let it go and NOT act on a complaint. At this point we just have to suck it up and move on. Cold perhapsd, but its reality. Life is NOT fair, never was.
QUESTION: I wondered if the deps are going to rteply to all notifications? Seems alot of work..... I had a thot that they could choose to reply to those they are NOT going to act on, cuz then at least the poster who reported at least feels 'heard'. I think this could be quite important to many.>> I am concerned when a former deputy replies to a poster's concerns and it comes across as if there is still "authority" there, why is this?
>Maybe because they really know the rules and how things work?
*Ewww, I agree w/Bob, they reply w/authority cuz they have knowledge.
However, that is a curious point to me, about the confusion over whether a former deputy could report etc....I found that all rather odd....and sure as heck isn't gonna want to make anyone ever even consider being a deputy...
M
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 16:07:45
In reply to Re: Suggestions and solutions, posted by Dinah on March 26, 2008, at 18:49:52
>I see a loosening of standards, along with unequal enforcement based on popularity, and the anger now directed at Admin being directed everywhere as being but three of the reasons that the Babble Dr. Bob is envisioning does not appeal to me.
*I wonder though. In so many places....leadership really does set the tone.....(look at how much effect BOB has?!)
The behaviour of admin and their responses will be VERY important indeed.
Like I said in post above, admin response is proly important, if time consuming...
Yup, admin will still be large responsibility, and unfortunately, I fear this will further separate the deps from general babblers, which makes me sad, cuz they babblers too......
Posted by fayeroe on March 28, 2008, at 16:30:31
In reply to Re: Suggestions and solutions-ADMIN, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 15:59:42
"Maybe because they really know the rules and how things work?"
Bob's answer to why a former deputy's post is having the sound of authority to it is confusing to me as well.....
I don't like being told something by someone who is not a deputy now but comes across, to me, as if they do have more authority than a "regular" poster does. I get uncomfortable because I, at times, do not know if I should reply or just keep my mouth shut......
I feel as though I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. Very, very confusing to me.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 28, 2008, at 23:37:59
In reply to Re: Suggestions and solutions-ADMIN » muffled, posted by fayeroe on March 28, 2008, at 16:30:31
Any "sound of authority" that someone infers from any post of mine that provides information about an administrative matter is simply that: inferred. I post with confidence about my understanding of the rules, just as I did before I decided to become a deputy, while I was a deputy, and now. If I sound confident, it's probably because I am in that case. When I am not, I include the appropriate caveats. I do not imply nor do I explicitly state that I have any more or less authority than any other community member. I have no control over how anyone interprets my posts. As such, I take no responsibility for any labels or beliefs about any roles others may associate with my participation here.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2008, at 0:12:15
In reply to 'Sound of authority', posted by gardenergirl on March 28, 2008, at 23:37:59
You know, one of my strengths is that I am a quick learner. That plays well with one of my values: being helpful. It's sad, though, when I wind up feeling that "no good deed goes unpunished" after offering what I can to try to help. Actually, I'm damned sick of that little aphorism. Perhaps for the time being, folks could explicitly state whether they require the "mantle of authority" with their answer or if any community member with knowledge of the subject could offer up information. Then I would know whether or not to bother replying.
gg
Posted by Justherself54 on March 29, 2008, at 10:22:49
In reply to Re: posts which have so far gone unanswered » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on March 20, 2008, at 15:05:29
>
> > I know I've been absent from my leadership role recently, and I apologize for that. I understand it may have triggered fear and anger. I'm working on getting back here. Thanks for your patience,
> >
> > Bob
>
> This terse statement is reassuring and will tend to make me more patient. My only question at this point is, it must have taken you, what, one minute to write it. Why couldn't you have written it when this whole thing blew up over a week ago?
I haven't been participating in babble since this whole thing blew up and I recognize the fact that you have apologized but there has been a lot of damage done, leaving me unsure if I will return.My suggestion is simple: when you are going to be absent from your leadership role for a period of time you simply post that, or even have one of your deputies post for you if you are unable. In my honest opinion, one simple post would have prevented the eruption of confusion, anger, fear, and a host of other emotions that arose.
I think the most devastating fallout from this has been the loss of some very giving, compassionate and knowledgeable members and I have no suggestions or solutions how to get them back.
Posted by rskontos on March 29, 2008, at 12:15:55
In reply to Re: Suggestion/Dr Bob, posted by Justherself54 on March 29, 2008, at 10:22:49
I really agree with Justherself. I have noticed a huge decrease of posting on the boards all the boards. no pun. Anyway, I have noticed within my self an inability to post something that before this fallout I would have posted. I have in the last few weeks probably written 6-7 posts to different threads that i deleted and never sent and three new threads that I deleted. I have been posting on admin more than ever. I used to come here and lurk but never posted. Now I mainly post here. The fallout for me is still not over.
I understand your statements Dr. Bob and appreciate your posting to answering some of the threads to date but the fallout is far from over. The effects as in posting back to normal is not being seen yet. I am unhappy about the lack of posting from those that used to be here and the sheer drop in volume. Babble seems lonely.
rsk
Posted by adelaide curtis on March 29, 2008, at 22:55:29
In reply to Re: Suggestion/Dr Bob » Justherself54, posted by rskontos on March 29, 2008, at 12:15:55
this is my last post, though i have said it times before..
this supportive community has turned into a small support group that i do not feel apart of.
i do not feel welcome or respected here, and i wish "every" one health and happiness.
take care of each other..
love jyl
Posted by muffled on March 29, 2008, at 22:59:36
In reply to Re: Suggestion/Dr Bob, posted by adelaide curtis on March 29, 2008, at 22:55:29
> this is my last post, though i have said it times before..
> this supportive community has turned into a small support group that i do not feel apart of.
> i do not feel welcome or respected here, and i wish "every" one health and happiness.
> take care of each other..
> love jyl* I am so dense!! Its you!!!!
Glad to 'see' you!!!
I get so mixed up w/names changing and then i read post and they seem familiar writing but I dunno who?! I can't seem to put it together! And I will forget again...
sigh.
Sorry you going, mebbe you will be back.
Again, nice to see you :-)
Muffled
Posted by twinleaf on March 30, 2008, at 12:15:17
In reply to Re: 'Sound of authority', posted by gardenergirl on March 29, 2008, at 0:12:15
I am another of the posters who, sadly, no longer feels free or comfortable sharing intimate or meaningful episodes from my therapy, or my life, on Psychology, as I used to do from time to time. Sharing knowledge-based information, such as my experience with rTMS, is still OK. It's the private, personal things; those require a basic level of trust and confidence that I am writing them for people who will understand, and connect them to similiar happenings in their own therapies. I always assumed that, but now, if I start one of those posts, I very quickly grind to a halt. The words that used to flow so easily are hard to summon up now. I am very sad that this has happened, as the mutual sharing was very helpful, as well as being fun. It seems to me that the Babble that allowed those wonderful exchanges no longer exists.....
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 15:49:50
In reply to as things stand now....., posted by twinleaf on March 30, 2008, at 12:15:17
> I wondered if the deps are going to rteply to all notifications? Seems alot of work..... I had a thot that they could choose to reply to those they are NOT going to act on, cuz then at least the poster who reported at least feels 'heard'. I think this could be quite important to many.
>
> MWe do already try to reply directly when we don't act. When we do act, we figure that lets them know we heard them.
--
> I don't like being told something by someone who is not a deputy now but comes across, to me, as if they do have more authority than a "regular" poster does. I get uncomfortable because I, at times, do not know if I should reply or just keep my mouth shut......
>
> fayeroeI don't mean to be flip, but maybe you could reply if you found their post helpful and not reply if you didn't?
> I take no responsibility for any labels or beliefs about any roles others may associate with my participation here.
> Perhaps for the time being, folks could explicitly state whether they require the "mantle of authority" with their answer or if any community member with knowledge of the subject could offer up information. Then I would know whether or not to bother replying.
>
> ggRoles do complicate relationships. I think the current deputies find that, and the "deputy" posting names are an attempt to clarify when they're in that role and when they're not. It can be hard to draw that line, though, and even when they're in their poster role, their deputy role can affect how they're perceived. And I'm sure that can happen with former deputies, too.
If people aren't explicit about who they'd like to hear from, and it would help you decide whether to reply, maybe you could ask?
--
> My suggestion is simple: when you are going to be absent from your leadership role for a period of time you simply post that, or even have one of your deputies post for you if you are unable. In my honest opinion, one simple post would have prevented the eruption of confusion, anger, fear, and a host of other emotions that arose.
>
> Justherself54I understand that more consistent communication would help. But I don't think that's the whole answer, either, since in fact it wasn't enough to post one simple post:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080204/msgs/816450.html
--
> there has been a lot of damage done, leaving me unsure if I will return.
>
> Justherself54> I have noticed within my self an inability to post something that before this fallout I would have posted. I have in the last few weeks probably written 6-7 posts to different threads that i deleted and never sent and three new threads that I deleted.
>
> rsk> I am another of the posters who, sadly, no longer feels free or comfortable sharing intimate or meaningful episodes from my therapy, or my life, on Psychology, as I used to do from time to time. ... I am very sad that this has happened, as the mutual sharing was very helpful, as well as being fun. It seems to me that the Babble that allowed those wonderful exchanges no longer exists.....
>
> twinleafI know that when there's been a loss of safety, or trust, it can take time to repair. If it's even possible to repair. I'm glad you're all still here now,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 16:19:16
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » adelaide curtis, posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2008, at 0:22:47
> > why cant you take a "suggestion" with out feeling hurt and threaten to run away from this thread?
>
> I know Dinah already replied, but I'd still like to ask you to rephrase that.Sorry, but since you haven't, I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't welcome or respect you. And I don't want anything bad to happen to you. In a crisis, please also get help in person. You may also wish to check out a listing compiled by a poster of helpful web pages on coping with crisis at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/Coping_with_crisis_001012507973
I encourage anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, to see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceDinah, I'm sorry if you felt hurt by that post.
Bob
PS: According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 1 week
period of time since previous block: 48 weeks
severity: 2 (default) + 1 (uncivil toward particular individual) = 3
block length = 1.49 rounded = 1 week
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 16:26:34
In reply to Re: blocked for week » adelaide curtis, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 16:19:16
> Dinah, I'm sorry if you felt hurt by that post.
>
> BobThank you for that, Dr. Bob. I think that's a nice addition to the block language.
For the record, though, and for whatever it's worth I'd really prefer that people not be blocked for anything they said to me in this matter.
Posted by ClearSkies on March 30, 2008, at 17:26:02
In reply to Re: blocked for week » adelaide curtis, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 16:19:16
> > > why cant you take a "suggestion" with out feeling hurt and threaten to run away from this thread?
> >
> > I know Dinah already replied, but I'd still like to ask you to rephrase that.
>
> Sorry, but since you haven't, I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
>So, what was the time frame that this poster was supposed to have rephrased the post before the block was issued? I didn't see where there was an expiration on requests to rephrase :-(
That doesn't actually seem fair at all to me, and I'd like to request that this block be rescinded for this reason. Otherwise it seems to me that you've imposed an additional requirement that's been otherwise unstated til now.
ClearSkies
Posted by twinleaf on March 30, 2008, at 19:05:40
In reply to as things stand now....., posted by twinleaf on March 30, 2008, at 12:15:17
I also feel distressed by this. I believe that it was me who asked Dinah to assume more of a leadership role in Dr. Bob's absence, in her roles as a deputy and long-time much valued and loved poster, to help us weather the tough times we were dealing with. I was so glad when she said that she would, and. like CS, was quite worried when she changed her mind. It really did seem to me, also, that she did not want to continue because she was distressed by the differing viewpoints which posters were expressing. I had assumed that she would deal in a reasonable and fair fashion with whatever views were expressed, and would have an intuitive understanding that a number of posters might be unusually stressed, and might express views that were more extreme than their usual ones. However, as it turned out, at the first hint of views different from her own, she wanted to quit. This dismayed me, and, I gather, other posters, a great deal.
It is really good to support your deputy, but what about the feelings of posters who really needed Dinah to step up to the plate and help them move beyond the anxiety and stresses caused by her original decision to resign as a deputy?
One articulate poster is now blocked just for speaking honestly, from her heart, and without malice or hostility. As you block her, you express your hope that Dinah's feelings are not hurt. That is valuable and important- but not more so than the feelings of the blocked poster, whom you have silenced.If you go on in this way, you will end up, sooner rather than later, with a few compliant deputies and an adequate number of subservient posters, whose main goal will be to make sure that they do not offend anyone. I would, personally., be thrilled not to belong to a group as intimidated and damaged as that.
I originally "joined" PB because of its liveliness, the intelligence of its discourse, the richness of the content, and the sheer fun of
all the unexpected things that happened here. Where are those wonderful, ineffable qualities now?
Posted by muffled on March 30, 2008, at 22:32:40
In reply to Re: Suggestions and solutions, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 15:49:50
>I understand that more consistent communication would help. But I don't think that's the whole answer, either, since in fact it wasn't enough to post one simple post:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080204/msgs/816450.html
*I find this very interesting, what COULD Bob best do when he can't be around???? I have wondered this before.
My best suggestion is that he tells us in advance...but he proly don't know when he gonna get swamped?
Or maybe its in the wording?
Or timing? as in getting a post in sooner before it escalates as far as it did?
M
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 23:31:09
In reply to Re: as things stand now, continued....., posted by twinleaf on March 30, 2008, at 19:05:40
> at the first hint of views different from her own, she wanted to quit.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others -- even deputies -- to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
And Dinah, I'm sorry if you felt hurt by that post.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 23:50:30
In reply to Re: as things stand now, continued....., posted by twinleaf on March 30, 2008, at 19:05:40
> That doesn't actually seem fair at all to me, and I'd like to request that this block be rescinded for this reason.
>
> ClearSkiesI'm sure she appreciates the support, but I think she had enough time.
--
> It is really good to support your deputy, but what about the feelings of posters who really needed Dinah to step up to the plate and help them move beyond the anxiety and stresses caused by her original decision to resign as a deputy?
I wasn't able to meet the needs of posters myself, so I can hardly expect the deputies to. It's hard to balance our own needs and the needs of others. I hope we can stay engaged with each other despite that.
> If you go on in this way, you will end up, sooner rather than later, with a few compliant deputies and an adequate number of subservient posters, whose main goal will be to make sure that they do not offend anyone.
In the same way that assertiveness isn't always healthy, compliance isn't always unhealthy. I encourage healthy attempts to be appropriately compliant.
> I originally "joined" PB because of its liveliness, the intelligence of its discourse, the richness of the content, and the sheer fun of all the unexpected things that happened here. Where are those wonderful, ineffable qualities now?
>
> twinleafMaybe there isn't room for them here right now. I think they'll return after we work through some issues.
Bob
Posted by muffled on March 30, 2008, at 23:55:29
In reply to Re: as things stand now, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 23:50:30
>I'm sure she appreciates the support, but I think she had enough time.
*whoah dude, like HOW much time was actually given??? and on a weekend???
Manoman.....
M
Posted by KAL44 on March 31, 2008, at 8:05:41
In reply to whoah.. » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on March 30, 2008, at 23:55:29
I used to post under different names at various times and have been blocked before under other names. Your comments echo my sentiments and reflect why I hardly post anywhere anymore. It was once good to post about therapy on psychology like twinleaf said, but I would never consider it anymore. I do not feel safe here. I would be afraid I would be talked about behind my back. I feel like I am going to get blocked for things I said here, and this is how paranoid I have become about babble.
Posted by rskontos on March 31, 2008, at 18:21:52
In reply to Re: whoah.. » muffled, posted by KAL44 on March 31, 2008, at 8:05:41
see i come back and this gets started again by you Dr. Bob and now I wished I could erase my thread on psychology. I am getting anxious again. Twinleaf expressed how she felt and you did not listen because you are now threatening to block her unless she takes something back. When did this policy change take effect? If you ask me and you did not, this is a childish way to handle things. You, the founder of this site are pitting posters against posters and I am going to leave this site if this continues. It makes me feel ill to see this happening.
But then again I guess you will just say then there is not room for me here.
rsk
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2008, at 19:02:46
In reply to Re: whoah..here we go again, posted by rskontos on March 31, 2008, at 18:21:52
> > I think she had enough time.
>
> whoah dude, like HOW much time was actually given???
>
> MIn this case, I posted my request on 3/25 and blocked her on 3/30, so 5 days.
--
> Twinleaf expressed how she felt and you did not listen because you are now threatening to block her unless she takes something back.
I did listen to her, I just didn't agree with how she posted. And I'm not asking her to take back what she said, I'm asking her to say something about herself rather than Dinah.
> If you ask me and you did not, this is a childish way to handle things. You, the founder of this site are pitting posters against posters
>
> rskThat's interesting, I thought I was doing the opposite!
Bob
Posted by ClearSkies on April 1, 2008, at 12:57:52
In reply to Re: whoah..here we go again, posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2008, at 19:02:46
> > > I think she had enough time.
> >
> > whoah dude, like HOW much time was actually given???
> >
> > M
>
> In this case, I posted my request on 3/25 and blocked her on 3/30, so 5 days.
>OK, I can't see where it's stated in the FAQ that if you don't rephrase a post when requested that you'll be blocked after a period of time - can you point that out to me?
And how was that communicated to the poster before they were blocked? (i.e., "please rephrase within xx number of days or you may be blocked" might have been an incentive for the rephrase to have happened?) I just don't see that the block was a presumed consequence of the request to rephrase according to the current guidelines, and would like to have this clarified for the future. Unfortunately, at this point I think we have lost the particular poster who has been blocked from returning to the boards again, partly because of how this matter was, or wasn't, administered.
Thanks
CS
Posted by fayeroe on April 1, 2008, at 15:07:54
In reply to Re: as things stand now, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 23:50:30
Bob said: "I wasn't able to meet the needs of posters myself, so I can hardly expect the deputies to. It's hard to balance our own needs and the needs of others. I hope we can stay engaged with each other despite that."
Why do you have deputies?
Posted by twinleaf on April 1, 2008, at 16:15:53
In reply to Re: as things stand now » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 1, 2008, at 15:07:54
Despite our hopes, and at least one request by me, for the deputies to assume a leadership role in calming peoples' fears and anxieties, they apparently did not feel comfortable doing that. This may have a lot to do with the nature and limitations of the training they received in order to become deputies.
They are very confident (if not always completely fair) with delivering PCB's and posting blocks. That is apparently their sole purpose and function.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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