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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 58 to 82 of 173. Go back in thread:
Posted by AuntieMel on July 9, 2005, at 10:18:55
In reply to ((((Auntie Mel)))) (nm), posted by gardenergirl on July 8, 2005, at 15:25:01
Sorry, gg. I love you dearly, but I need to protect myself and the only way to do that is not talk to any one that also posts on the 'other site.'
Posted by Jen Star on July 9, 2005, at 11:02:36
In reply to Re: **Boycotting Board** re: Larry Hover's Block.. » Sarah T., posted by All Done on July 9, 2005, at 2:53:15
I'm sorry Larry's away for a while, but I don't agree that the block was senseless. I think most of us know what will get a block (or might get one!) but post certain things anyway.
I think this is especially true for people who've been posting for a long time. Like me, for example! I recently had a week-long block for saying something I was pretty sure MIGHT get me a block...but I said it anyway (b/c I was feeling peevish). I probably shouldn't presume to think for others, but I ASSUME that many other people also have a feel for what's blockable and what's not. And sometimes our emotions get the better of us and we blurt something out that gets us in trouble.
I think the rules are there to make sure that people stay in check.
Do you think that people who've been posting a long time have MORE responsibility for upholding and role-modeling the rules to "youngsters", or less? Should they get free passes b/c they're highly loved?
But it IS cool to see how many people really like & miss Larry. Very interesting. It seems that it would be hard to leave a board like this after participating for so long. Do you think he'll come back?
JenStar
Posted by TamaraJ on July 9, 2005, at 11:23:40
In reply to Larry Hoover's block » TofuEmmy, posted by gabbii on July 9, 2005, at 9:27:08
What happened has been a sad thing in so many ways. Some people assume that the protesting of Larry's block is based soley on his popularity. Many have, however, acknowledged, that, although Larry is a well-liked and valuable member of the community, the protest was more about the block being given in spite of the fact that there not only clearly was ambiguity in the rules, but also administrative action for such an offense had been inconsistently applied previously.
The hard part, for me at least, is, although the rules do provide posters with a safe and secure environment, the rigid enforcement of those rules can, in some instances, do more harm than good, resulting in hurt feelings, strained or even ruined friendships, feelings of vulnerability and insecurity and good people leaving a site that is here to provide a community of supportive and compassionate people who are struggling with the same or similar demons and issues. It is clear that the rules, in some instances, can pit posters again posters, and the damage that does to a people's confidence, sense of self-worth and feelings of safety and security can be deep and long-lasting. Nobody should be leaving because of disagreements over the enforcement of the rules, but, unfortunately, it is happening and has happened, and that is a bloody shame.
Perhaps not a popular opinion, but the "spare the rod, spoil the child" theory of discipline is not necessarily effective in modifying behaviour (I know we are not children, so I do apologize for not being able to come up with a more suitable expression). In my own experience, I have always found that people of all ages learn more valuable and lasting lessons in civility, decorum and appropriate/acceptable behaviour by being given the opportunity to correct their behaviour immediately, rather than being given a "time out" or being harshly punished. I believe that, for certain breaches, a poster should be asked to rephrase, retract or apologize, or a combination the three. I think people do learn just as much from having to really think about how their words can affect others, and being able to do something about that and apply lessons learned sooner rather than later.
I don't expect others to agree with me, and I am not looking for a debate. I just had to express my feelings on this.
Tamara
Posted by Tamar on July 9, 2005, at 12:09:55
In reply to Re: Larry Hover's Block, posted by TofuEmmy on July 9, 2005, at 6:57:01
> "And if he does return, is there some way to try to keep this from happening again?"
>
> Absolutely -- I won't be coming back to Babble.
>
> My pals all know how to reach me.Hello Emmy,
May I ask for clarification?
Are you saying that you will leave if Larry returns?
Or are you saying that you will leave if Larry returns AND posts to you again?
I wasn't sure which you meant (maybe you meant something else again...)
You don't have to answer if you don't want to, of course.
Tamar
Posted by 10derHeart on July 9, 2005, at 12:40:57
In reply to Please, everyone . . ., posted by TamaraJ on July 9, 2005, at 11:23:40
....makes me feel ill. It's like I can't take a full breath, and I have a sick knot in my stomach :-(
I don't know why I read here.
I certainly can't blame anyone but myself.
I think it's partly because...
All of Babble seems like a big family/community
With just different rooms, parts or whatever...
And so I visit to learn what more I can about each and every poster
On every board - this one, too.
And it's good to understand where someone is coming from with some issue over here, when I'm talking with them on another board.But I shouldn't. It's way too sad.
I miss Larry.
I'd hate for Emmy - or ANYONE - to leave.
There's SO much leaving IRL, and it hurts so much
And now here :-(
The DNPs above are....well, shocking to me.
Guess I'm just naive and idiotic to think this could have turned out some other way.
Please, I'm not looking for anyone to tell me I'm not idiotic...and if you say I'm not naive
I'll have to shake my head and say, "oh, yes I am" because I really never anticipated this.I hope in time, people change their minds.
This is too much potential loss.
I need to find a way to block myself from just this board.
Guess I'm a hypocrite, too, since I'm posting that it's so upsetting, yet I know I'll want to still read here.
I suppose I might not be in therapy if I fully understood these kinds of contradictions in me.I do understand people are hurt and mad.
This is so, so sad.Probably no one's receptive, but
(((((((((everyone))))))))) from me anywayToo bad cyber hugs aren't powerful enough to wipe all these bad feelings away :-(
(Sorry, Dr. B, not sure if this was very Admin.)
Posted by Jen Star on July 9, 2005, at 13:09:27
In reply to Re: Larry Hover's Block ^^^ above for dr. bob ^^^, posted by AuntieMel on July 8, 2005, at 15:03:01
Mel,
I'm so sorry. I hope your friend will be OK. Please take heart and post about this on grief or social if you need to talk more. I'm sending hugs your way!take care,
JenStar
Posted by Jai Narayan on July 9, 2005, at 15:21:06
In reply to Re: Larry Hover's Block ^^^ above for dr. bob ^^^, posted by AuntieMel on July 8, 2005, at 15:03:01
oh, Auntie Mel...
I am so sorry.what are you going to do?
my best to you
Jai
Posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 15:45:37
In reply to All of this..., posted by 10derHeart on July 9, 2005, at 12:40:57
because none of this is making a lick of sense.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 16:01:09
In reply to Please, everyone . . ., posted by TamaraJ on July 9, 2005, at 11:23:40
> > And if he does return, is there some way to try to keep this from happening again?
>
> Absolutely -- I won't be coming back to Babble.
>
> emI'd like people to feel free to come and go. OTOH, I value you, too, and hope you don't leave because of this. I think there's something to be said for working out ways to co-exist. But I know it can be hard.
> It is clear that the rules, in some instances, can pit posters again posters... Nobody should be leaving because of disagreements over the enforcement of the rules, but, unfortunately, it is happening and has happened, and that is a bloody shame.
>
> I have always found that people of all ages learn more valuable and lasting lessons in civility, decorum and appropriate/acceptable behaviour by being given the opportunity to correct their behaviour immediately
>
> TamaraI think rules and their enforcement are part of it, but not all of it. People will sometimes pit themselves against each other no matter what the circumstances. And posters already have the opportunity to revise their behavior immediately.
> I think the issue is more around what all of us can do to prevent situations escalating so that people end up being blocked. Sometimes people do post things warning others to be careful or whatever. A well timed apology can work wonders. Maybe we need to do this more.
>
> alexandra_kI do think that's one strategy. It's another way of taking care of each other.
--
> I need to protect myself and the only way to do that is not talk to any one that also posts on the 'other site.'
>
> AuntieMelPsych Central? I'd be curious how you think it might be related to this. If you'd feel comfortable sharing. Speaking of co-existing, that may also apply to John and me...
Bob
Posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 16:06:07
In reply to Re: co-existing, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 16:01:09
i was wondering the same thing.> > I need to protect myself and the only way to do that is not talk to any one that also posts on the 'other site.'
> >
> > AuntieMel
>
> Psych Central? I'd be curious how you think it might be related to this. If you'd feel comfortable sharing. Speaking of co-existing, that may also apply to John and me...
>
> Bob
Posted by jay on July 9, 2005, at 16:06:30
In reply to Re: Truth » so, posted by gabbii on July 8, 2005, at 18:18:33
Posted by AuntieMel on July 9, 2005, at 17:03:22
In reply to Re: co-existing, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2005, at 16:01:09
No, I do not feel comfortable sharing. At least not publicly. Just asking me that question is asking me to say something that will come out as accusing - and I'm not going to go there.
Those involved know what I mean. Or they should.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 9, 2005, at 17:18:34
In reply to All of this..., posted by 10derHeart on July 9, 2005, at 12:40:57
I'm sorry if I upset you. It certainly isn't intended to hurt someone as kind as you are.
I am doing what I have to do for me. Maybe those requests will allow me to stay here. Maybe not. We'll see. I just know I'm so angry right now that I have to put up a wall or I will melt down.
I've always tried to stay out of emotional arguments around here, but this time I just can't. And it hurts me, too.
Posted by KaraS on July 9, 2005, at 17:26:44
In reply to Re: Larry Hover's Block » TofuEmmy, posted by AuntieMel on July 9, 2005, at 9:54:12
Tamara has already said a lot of what I wanted to say but there are a few additional things I like to add or emphasize.
Yes, Larry is popular for lots of good reasons but that's not why the block was unfair. It was unfair because of all of the gray area involved here. I won't repeat the details because they have been given previously. The point is that Larry did not think he was breaking the rules. Isn't everyone entitled to know EXACTLY what the rules are, without question, so they can respond accordingly? It's very clear that Larry didn't know he was breaking the rules. Also, when someone posts something that has all kinds of information about you and what you have done and you don't think it's fair or accurate, how do you set the record straight? How do you not respond to it? I think there absolutely should have been a warning to Larry stating in absolute terms that what he was doing was against the rules and how he could set the record straight from his point of view with breaking the rules. Given all of the ambiguity here, there should have at least been less time given to account for that factor.
I think that Emmy is also a victim here. Because the block was so long, and even she felt it was out of proportion to the alleged offense, she is feeling the wrath of other babblers and so now she is leaving here. The unfairness of the length of the block put her in a very bad situation too. She needed her concerns listened to and acted upon. I think that had Larry been given adequate clarification and warning, he would have desisted. She would have felt relieved and both of them would still be with us!
Kara
Posted by gabbii on July 9, 2005, at 17:38:37
In reply to psych central, posted by crushedout on July 9, 2005, at 16:06:07
I don't post on the "other site" but whatever...
Posted by gabbii on July 9, 2005, at 17:57:38
In reply to Re: Larry Hover's Block, posted by KaraS on July 9, 2005, at 17:26:44
>
>
> I think that Emmy is also a victim here. Because the block was so long, and even she felt it was out of proportion to the alleged offense, she is feeling the wrath of other babblers and so now she is leaving here. The unfairness of the length of the block put her in a very bad situation too. She needed her concerns listened to and acted upon. I think that had Larry been given adequate clarification and warning, he would have desisted. She would have felt relieved and both of them would still be with us!
>
> Kara
>Amen! God knows, Lar's one of my favorite people but his block was for what he posted on Admin *after* Emmy had publically made everyone aware of things. Dr Dr. Bob didn't block him for the two slips Emmy had brought to his attention, it was for what larry posted after that. So It was entirely out of her hands by that point, but even if it hadn't been she had every right to have been listened to.
This has been horrible experience for both of them.
Posted by All Done on July 9, 2005, at 18:02:22
In reply to Re: psych central, posted by gabbii on July 9, 2005, at 17:38:37
> I don't post on the "other site" but whatever...
Interestingly enough, Larry does.
I just don't understand what it has to do with this, though.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 18:07:31
In reply to Re: Larry Hover's Block » TofuEmmy, posted by AuntieMel on July 9, 2005, at 9:54:12
Well... Maybe I'll get a DNP from you too because I post the odd post over there. Maybe 3 or 4 in the last month or so. (Actually I could go check I was praising their individual stats feature that even I could understand just yesterday). But I do have to say that I have absolutely no idea what is up with you and that site.
I wanted to reply to this:
> You say you think 6 weeks was too long, but why did you bring it up here if this wasn't the intended consequence?
If someone attacked me or posted to me after a DNP request I'd jolly well bring it up. Because it is not nice to be attacked. And it is not nice to be posted to when you are trying to get some space from a poster.
Would I forget about it in virtue of the block length that the poster is likely to get? No - I would not. Its about getting people to stoppit. The intention is to stop them doing that again. The intention isn't to have a nasty punishment delivered (at least it shouldn't be).
But then I have ideals about rehabilitatory justice rather than retrubutive.
Posted by gabbii on July 9, 2005, at 18:14:46
In reply to Re: psych central, posted by All Done on July 9, 2005, at 18:02:22
> > I don't post on the "other site" but whatever...
>
> Interestingly enough, Larry does.
>
> I just don't understand what it has to do with this, though.You've got me there Laurie.
"Hell is a place without Reason"
Posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 18:15:36
In reply to Re: psych central and civility infractions » AuntieMel, posted by alexandra_k on July 9, 2005, at 18:07:31
I also want to say that I am rather dumbfounded that people are going on about the block being 'senseless' and 'arbitrary' etc etc.
While I understand that people could have issues with the LENGTH of the block, I don't see how people can call it senseless and arbitrary.
And... Well... I guess I've said this before but he was warned... then blocked.
What else could be done???
I liked what someone posted about WHY Larry is so popular. There is a lot of sense to that. But I also liked the point that a lot of people get blocked for things and most of us don't even notice. And a lot of lesser known posters get blocked for even greyer things than this and nobody gets this upset about it.
I'm sorry Larry is hurting.
I'm sorry Emmy is hurting.
I don't know whats up with Mel, but I'm sorry you are hurting too.What I kind of regret now is not jumping into the thread when Dinah warned Larry to be careful. I could have jumped in to back that up. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. But then at least I'd be able to say that I did what I could.
Posted by 10derHeart on July 9, 2005, at 19:19:33
In reply to Re: All of this... » 10derHeart, posted by AuntieMel on July 9, 2005, at 17:18:34
> I'm sorry if I upset you. It certainly isn't intended to hurt someone as kind as you are.
*You* didn't upset me. The entire situation does. Didn't mean to post in a way that made it sound like it's just you. I shouldn't have mentioned the DNPs, since I have ZERO knowledge about the situation behind that. Sorry about that - I slipped, and was insensitive because I was so surprised to suddenly see them...
> I am doing what I have to do for me. Maybe those requests will allow me to stay here. Maybe not. We'll see. I just know I'm so angry right now that I have to put up a wall or I will melt down.
I totally understand and respect your right to do that. I really do.
> I've always tried to stay out of emotional arguments around here, but this time I just can't. And it hurts me, too.
I know. I hope I didn't say anything that sounded like I didn't think so. Choosing to say *DNP* to anyone, from someone as friendly and reasonable as you, has to come from a pretty darn hurt place, for sure. For me, the pain comes right through in your posts.
It's part of what got me impulsive enough to post. Too much pain seeping through the keyboards of many... :-( I'm lousy at avoiding or not soaking uo too much of other people's emotions sometimes. Okay, I'm lying....ALL the time. It's something I learn to live with. (Thank goodness for therapy.)
I shouldn't have posted. Just "crying for my friends (and potential new friends)" - in public, I guess. But I'm hardly suffering like the rest of you. Hopefully time and distance will do a world of good.
And Mel, I completely missed the post about your (IRL) friend earlier. That's awful. You must be under so much pressure, and completely frustrated. My mom was a cancer victim many years ago, when medicine wasn't nearly what it is today. And I've dealt with this with others I love, too... (((Mel))) I pray it's a cancer that can be aggressively and successfully treated - we've come a long way with that. I'm sure your friend understands the limitations of distance, etc., when these things happen..but it still s*cks.
Ahhh..this is creeping away from admin issues again....anyway, I'm thinking of you.
Posted by gabbii on July 9, 2005, at 19:54:48
In reply to Re: All of this... » AuntieMel, posted by 10derHeart on July 9, 2005, at 19:19:33
you're just lovely, tenderheart
Posted by 10derHeart on July 9, 2005, at 21:57:57
In reply to Re: All of this... » 10derHeart, posted by gabbii on July 9, 2005, at 19:54:48
Posted by gardenergirl on July 9, 2005, at 23:04:19
In reply to Re: psych central, posted by All Done on July 9, 2005, at 18:02:22
I take a bit of time away and I fall down the rabbit hole without realizing it.
Can somebody else who is supposed to know what the hell any of this has to do with PC please explain it to me? Apparently I should know, but either I'm dense or clueless or both. Feel free to babblemail me or to post it, I don't mind either.
But I's confused.
gg
Posted by KaraS on July 9, 2005, at 23:53:00
In reply to Well bless my whiskers!, posted by gardenergirl on July 9, 2005, at 23:04:19
> I take a bit of time away and I fall down the rabbit hole without realizing it.
>
> Can somebody else who is supposed to know what the hell any of this has to do with PC please explain it to me? Apparently I should know, but either I'm dense or clueless or both. Feel free to babblemail me or to post it, I don't mind either.
>
> But I's confused.
>
> gg
>
I'm guessing it's the fact that PC was the cause for the arguments between Lar and Emmy which led her to request the DNP to begin with.
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