Posted by mindevolution on January 26, 2007, at 19:44:10 [reposted on January 26, 2007, at 23:07:22 | original URL]
In reply to Re: Does Mental Illness Exist? Feedback Requested!, posted by hgi698 on January 26, 2007, at 12:27:11
> On mental illness:
>
> "of all the hundreds of mental illnesses in the dsmv, we do not know the aetiology of any of them."
>
> This statement is wrong we DO know the aetiology of many mental illness.I am speaking purely from a medical point of view, rather than psychological point of view. Not only do we not know the aetiology of any mental illness, we also do not know the physiology of any mental illness. And it is that way by medical definition. When the physiology of Parkinson's was discovered, the progressive damage to the dopaminergic system (the substantive nigra to be precise), it became redefined a neurological disease and named after the discoverer, hence why it is called a disease, same with Alzeihmer's.
Neurology deals with brain diseases, psychiatry deals with psychological suffering not medical disease. Psychiatry invents the names and definitions of mental illnesses, and votes on them every year, they are not discovered and are not medically speaking real, there is no medical science behind any of them, not one.
so due to the demarcation between psychiatry and the neurological sciences, psychiatry will only ever deal with mental illnesses which from a medical perspective are undefined and unknown.
> It is complex mix of genetic and environmental factors.
If it was proved to have a genetic component, the illness would be redefined as a neurological disease and quite likely named after its discoverer.
> Sometimes vitamin deficiencies can cause depression, psychoses.
The cause and physiology of depression and psychosis is unknown and undefined. It is impossible for you to prove that statement to be true due to the medical definition of mental illness vis a vis neurological diseases.
>Many genes have been correlated with mental illness.
Not with any mental illness, a neurological disease perhaps.
>A deficiency in Omega 3 fatty acids (found in fish) has a profound effect on neurotransmitters, reducing serotonin and dopamine in key regulatory areas. Some scientists have correlated the rise in depression to an increase in trans-fat when compared to omega 3's.
Nothing has been proved, otherwise it would not still be a mental illness.
> Our unhealthy lifestyle is leading to changes in brain chemistry that cause people to become depressed and even possibly psychotic.
There is no known pathology for depression, psychosis or any mental illness.
>There are many other things that we know about specific mental illness that are too complex and long winded for me to cover here. So to say we don't know anything about mental illness and it's causes is false.
From a medical perspective we know absolutely nothing about mental illness, or they wouldn't be called mental illnesses. *sigh*
> The amount that we know about the brain and mental illness is enormous.
Sure, I agree, that is the province of the neurosciences as I said in my last post.
> Are antidepressants or antipsychotics necessarily correcting chemical imbalance? The answer is no.
not only is the chemical balance theory for mental illness unproved, any theory about mental illness is unproved. By definition, causes and physiology of all mental illness are purely speculation nothing further.
> But they are tools that we use to obtain more desired states of mind, just like caffeine and alcohol.
To compare coffee with ADs is like comparing coffee to the street drugs speed or ice. To compare APs to alcohol is like comparing alcohol to herion, except that the comparison is not really fair, APs are many times more toxic than herion. APs should be compared with substances of similar toxicity; chemicals such as MPTP, pesticides, nerve agents such as sarin or vx gas or organophosphates and chemotherapy.
> Perhaps if everyone supplemented with omega 3 fatty acids, reduced their stress and exercised more the rates of depression would decrease substantially.
I agree with you, healthy living has to be a good approach to mental health, but we still don't know what the scientific cause of depression is, let alone what cures it.
>But mental illness exists because the brain has evolved through millions of years to be good at survival and reproduction.
*sigh* there are no proved genetic links for mental illnesses, nor will there ever be.
>Psychiatry has had especially dreadful instances of quackery in the past (lobotomy anyone?) and still has its downside, but this has been the case for most fields of human endeavor.
Psychiatry is the only medical specialty that by definition deals with, and will only ever deal with, illnesses with unknown medical pathology. It is also the only medical specialty capable of taking away your right to freedom, your right to refuse treatment, and even your right to life without a single shred of medical evidence either because you self present at hospital or on the say so of one other member of the public who does not have to provide evidence that their claims are true. The medical records are then held from these “patients” so they cannot sue for damages. Imagine being treated against your will with chemotherapy without any evidence of cancer and then held potentially indefinitely against your will.
You think Lobotomy was terrible, it only reduced a persons intelligence and ability to relate to the world, placing them in a vegetative state, but they would still live out their life. Antipsychotics not only produce a vegetative state, every organ in the body not just the brain is permanently and progressively damaged, and long term use reduces life expectancy by decades, and by upping the dose at any time they are all capable of inducing sudden death by elongating the qt interval, inducing stroke, or triggering nms. Antipsychotics anyone?
> Humans have had the ability to use science and technology to their advantage throughout their existance. The brain is not magic, it can be scientifically studied just like any other organ in the body. Thus it is not outside the realm of "improvement".
I wish what you were saying was true, I really do, but psychiatry isn't a neuroscience.
>So one can hope that psychiatry like any other field will continue to get better in the future.
Based on past and present treatments, what do you think the chances of this is? Btw you didn't answer my hypothetical!?
poster:mindevolution
thread:726938
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20061123/msgs/726943.html