Posted by zeugma on March 7, 2006, at 16:52:29 [reposted on March 7, 2006, at 22:17:37 | original URL]
In reply to Re: random discourse on mortality, redirect if nec. » zeugma, posted by 838 on March 7, 2006, at 4:54:38
> > President Bush is quoted as saying that less regulation means less lawsuits, and less headaches for big business.
>
> Hmm. Well other countries have regulation without being litigious (or however you spell it)... But I don't really know what you are talking about.>>Sorry for not making myself, or President Bush's policy, clear. I was referring to a specific instance, of the Governor of New York's lawsuit against a federal agency for not meeting its own standards, and then juxtaposing it with a statement of President Bush's that is a paraphrase, and unfortunately I have neither a photographic memory nor the space in my apt. to keep stacks of newspapers, nor infinite time to surf the net in search of specific quotes.
I do not know how regulation of industry is seen in Australia or NZ, for example. In the US there is a strong belief in the free market, which is clearly an ideal (in the philosophical sense ) state- one can only approximate it in reality. One comes closer to it, theoretically, by removing as many obstacles to profit by businesses large and small that are imposed by government- one of which (an obstacle, the specific obstacle that is the cause of the Governor of New York's bout of litigousness) is not to use certain materials that are highly damaging to the environment. That is the application of the principle that I meant when I gave a rough paraphrase of President Bush's economic philosophy (my paraphrase, obviously my own interpretation). Suppose someone develops cancer as a result of being exposed to a toxin contained in an industrial product- e.g., the one suspected by the State of New York of being used by Federal workers in New York. That person then sues. Obviously this ties up the courts and potentially cuts into corporate profits. there are certain products listed by the Environmental protection Agency that are not legal, in that scientists know or suspect a causal relation to some kind of illness. Clearly if an unknown product is used it makes it that much harder to appeal to scientific evidence in a court of law that causality was involved and the corporation supplying the product was at fault. So the stance that the State of New York is alleging the Federal Government of taking is that they are insulating corporations from this kind of lawsuit by allowing corporations to conceal indredients in products used by government contractors. The corporations may also find it cheaper to make the product using the proscribed ingredients (those on the list of environmentally dangerous substances). That was quite a long-winded reply, but I am all for clarification, and the situation is actually quite explicable (I just wish I had more economy of words).
>
> Today... After a few beers I got up the courage to ask about the 'general atmosphere' after 9/11 and about the 'general atmosphere' about the Iraq situation and what the 'general atmosphere' was around my Iran comment (yes I repeated it). And... It is fair to say that the people I was talking to are fairly liberal... And yet... I could tell from their looks that there was something a bit funny...
>
you can tell a lot by body language and such.> Then the topic moved to how I find it freaky that cops over here carry guns. I do. I'm not used to that. And that in Sydney there are billboard advertisments with a hotline to call if you have information on suspected terrorist activities and about how I burst out laughing the first time I saw that... And about how different... My culture is in general.
in New York we are subjected to random search of backpacks, we are surrounded by signs that say "If you see something, say something," we see pictures of unattended bags sitting ominously under seats. In the leadup to the Iraq war we witnessed the spectacle of Mr. Colin Powell brandishing a vial of a toxic-looking substance, and we were also assured that Saddam was an even more inviting target than Osama bin Laden. We were told by Mr. Dick Cheney that when we went into Baghdad, "we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators." We heard many many things. You know, the United States is a large place, New York and Boston are not typical of the U.S. at all. But the Revolution was planned in Boston, that is where the first blows against foreign tyranny were struck. It is good to keep that in mind.
>
> And the moral of the story is that...
> There is more of an American bias here than you might think.
> And that no, I don't get it.
> I don't get it.>>well, see above. America? I have my doubts about the State of the Union. The motto of New Hampshire, one of the original Thirteen Colonies, is "Live free or die." New hampshire, Boston, New York... sorry, I have been thinking a lot about American ideals lately, and how they relate to secret courts and secretive government agencies and newspapers suing in order to print the news. >>
>
> And do I really want to?
>
> I don't know.
>
> Some things just seem clear to me.
> If cops carry guns then people will get shot.
> If there are billboards with a free hotline for 'suspected terrorist activities' then people will report things out of paranoia.
>I think I'm paranoid enough by now. The random searches went into effect on July 22, 2005. As it happens I was searched a day or two after the policy went into effect. It is not that I have such a flawless memory for dates, it is that the date "As of..." always prefaces a public announcement of the policy, broadcast throughout the transit system, and is written on the marker boards of every train station in New York, and on countless posters. It's a small thing, but it's like an apology for the policy, a reminder that this is one of the Thirteen Colonies and the motto of one of those Colonies, not far from here, is "Live free or die."
> I don't know.
>
> "Tis a funny world.
>
You must remember President Bush's poll ratings are the lowest of any President since these measurements began. This is just a fact, a most interesting fact.-z
poster:zeugma
thread:617294
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20060304/msgs/617300.html