Posted by alexandra_k on June 8, 2005, at 3:37:15
In reply to Re: Decriminalisation would at least be step in right, posted by Nickengland on June 7, 2005, at 10:05:00
> >Nicotene. Nicotene is more addictive than opiates with respect to the percentages of how many people successfully give up.
> The PHYSICAL withdrawal symptoms from opiates are no worse than a severe case of the flu. The PSYCHOLOGICAL withdrawal is worse for nicotene than it is for opiates.
> Are you saying the two are not in the same class??I'm saying that there is a lot of hype about how 'bad' opiate withdrawal is. Its simply not that bad.
> If someone quits smoking, sure they go through some pretty bad psychological withdrawal symptoms...I think overall though the heroin user goes through worse withdrawal symtoms lol..have you seen Trainspotting?!Yes. And how was that worse than a severe case of the flu???? The flu is nasty, don't get me wrong. But it isn't the end of the world.
>The heroin user who relies on burgling peoples houses and mugging people, selling every posession they have, proves this case - as people who quit smoking do not go to such extream lengths to feed there habit.
People who quit smoking do not have to go to such extreme lengths to feed their habit.
Same with obtaining alchohol.
If they did...
I think they would.>Regardless of whether heroin is legal or not, the drug remains the same.
Sure. I guess I just don't think it is all that bad.
> >I think the damage comes because of the criminal association.> I think the damage comes from the drug its self.
Hmm.
> > Alcohol and drink driving offences continue to rise...if alchol was illeagal would they be still rising at the rate they are now?
> I think so.
> > Smoking related diseases continue to rise, if smoking was illeagal, would they continue to rise at the rate as though they were legal?
> I think so.My point there is that if you have a social problem resulting from a substance then making that substance illegal isnt' going to solve that social problem. In fact... IMO making it illegal is going to make that social problem worse because then you have the criminal element (and the associated crimes) to deal with too..
> So you have answered you're own question, with regards to some of the damage these drugs cause, would still continue to rise if heroin would be made legal.
No. I'm sorry but that doesn't follow from what I said at all. I was making a claim about the ineffectiveness of making something that is legal illegal in order to solve the social problem. That doesn't say anything at all about what will happen if you have a social problem with something that is illegal and you think you can solve the social problem by making it legal.
I think that making it legal AND providing more funds (via taxes on the substances) for education and rehabilitation will help with the social problem. That is the claim that I would like to make.
> I was talking about prison, with regards to the crime involved in obtaining money to feed a heroin habit eg 80 or 90% of burglaries over here are commited by heroin & crack addicts. (new zealand maybe different)And if heroin was more easily available then addicts would not have to resort to burglary
> Yes masively reduced prices to start with to get you hooked. Sometimes the first samples will not even cost a penny..but as you want more the prices increases etc.. There was a report of given out freebies to school kids too if I remember corectly.Yeah. Thats where if you legalise it there can be a standardised price. The tax from there can go into really cracking down on the illegal market. And there won't be such a demand for the illegal market if the substances are freely available legally anyway.
> Cigarette smuggling here is BIG buesiness, people much prefer to buy cigarettes "illegally" for £2.50, through crime, than rather pay £5.00 and pay the tax man...it would be the same for smack too im sure. Tax here is a joke lol.
Sure.
Thats a bit steep... We pay around $10NZ for a pack of 20's. I thought that was a bit steep...
> Its how you get to the stage of making them legal is the toughest thing.Yeah.
> For example what does man-kind benefit from Crack?..Does crack make the world a better place and so the government should be telling people and our children that its right to smoke crack?...making something legal gives the message its ok as opposed to something that illegal is not ok.
Breaking your promises is legal - but society does not think it is acceptable
Sleeping with everybody you meet is legal - but society does not think it is acceptable
F*rting in public is legal - but society does not think it is acceptable.Just because something isn't legal doesn't mean it is socially acceptable.
> How would you like to see crack made legal, the age limit for smoking here is 16, would this be the same for crack?Our smoking limit went up to 18
Our drinking limit is 18
At 18 you can get married without parental consent
Voting age is 18
Casino - 20.
I guess I'd say 18
To bring it into line with everything else...Except the casino... Which suprises me a little.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:506791
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20050509/msgs/509525.html