Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2008, at 17:41:12
In reply to Lou's reply to Scott's post-phlthwuhl, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2008, at 11:42:11
> > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing. Consider PB just one more unmoderated blog that is so pervasive on the Internet. I think we should just be glad that this forum exists at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone would care to answer: Exactly what is it that you find it necessary for Dr. Bob to be here?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What can't you do while he is not here?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > He has no duty to make you happy.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In the 8 years I've been posting here, I have never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice. What else do you need him for?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Simple question: How does Bob's absence affect YOU.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So far, I've asked this question with other words. No one has attempted to answer it. If you cannot answer this fundamental question, I don't see that there is much to discuss. I think there is a mob mentality here, and I wish people would just talk about themselves rather than allude to some global consensus.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What do we need Bob for? That's another attempt to get to a straight answer out of somebody. Saying that some percentage of people are mad and sad and lost without our leader, Dr. Bob, does not address the questions I've posed in previous posts.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I hear children whining. It must be me.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > - Scott
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > > > > It is written here,[...Dr. Robert Hsiung owes us nothing...what is it..for Bob to be here...he has no duty to make you happy...never seen ..giving medical advice...Simple..how does Mr. Hsiung's absence affect YOU...no one has attempted to answer...mob mentality...some global consensus...What do we need Bob for?...hear children whining...].
> > > > > > > > > > > Let us consider several aspects of this situation here one at a time by the use of established reasoning. One way of reasoning is by comparative analogy.
> > > > > > > > > > > In an analogy, we could try to compare this communnity with another like community. If we compared this community to , let's say, an emergency room, would there be a proper analogy? Let's try and see.
> > > > > > > > > > > Let us say that in an ER the main doctor that supervises all the other doctors leaves without saying when he will return and leaves the ER open to be run by his assistants that do not have the expertise as the main doctor and that the assistants do not have authority to act in a final decision as to do a critical surgery or not, for only the leader of those doctors is allowed to decide and the leader did not replace himself before he left with an equivalent doctor.
> > > > > > > > > > > Then a 17 year old girl is brought in and emergency treatment that the doctors need authorization to perform is delayed because the main doctor has left the hospital that authorizes the procedure or not and the doctors ready to perform need the main dosctor to have his expertise to do the procedure. The family brought their daughter in in an expectation that treatment could be given.
> > > > > > > > > > > Now in this community here, one could ask as to if an {agency} has been created from the past practice that one could expect.
> > > > > > > > > > > Memebrs have expected here support and education that is moderated by the leader and that his policy is that his assistants do not have to act and can defer to the leader and that the assistants (deputies) are themselves members that share some of the psychological/emotioanl states that the members came to this community for support for. By the nature that the leader is not responding to pleas from members that have psychological/emotional states that they came to the forum for support and education about, and that notifications have been posted as being outstanding, could we determine if there is the potential that some of those members could slide into deeper depression and hopelesness and other psychotic states from the main administrator not responding to pleas from the members?
> > > > > > > > > > > Then there is the question of the site being at no cost. Well, what if the ER in question was a free clinic? Would that change anything? If so, what? more...
> > > > > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > > > > > It is written here something like,[...where has Dr. Hsiung posted as a clinician?...].
> > > > > > > > > > In order to have a determination concerning that aspect here, it is the generally accepted meaning of one to be a clinician if one presents him/her self as being qualified as a doctor or a psychiatrist or psychologist. The email address and such for Dr. Hsiung and his picture can identify him as a doctor and a psychitrist. But there is much more to this.
> > > > > > > > > > In Mr. Hsiung's TOS he has a section called something like, {what medicine to take?}. In that section, could not some think that Mr. Hsiung is establishing an agency for others to get clinical expertise concerning medicine? If not, why not?
> > > > > > > > > > And would it depend on if the member or the doctor is giving the opinion concerning the medicine? After all, if you take the position that it is the members, then since Mr. Hsiung could controll the content of the forum, then is there not the potential for one to see a controlled aspect of medictions here? If not, why not? more...
> > > > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > > Let us look a what members here have access to in reagrds to medicines. A member here can click on the following:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/
> > > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > > > Let us look at the link that members can acccess here concerning advice about medicines and such and if this does or does not have the potential to lead some others to think that there is advice or not concerning clinical pharmacology.
> > > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/experts.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > friends,
> > > > > > > Here is a link where it is th epotential IMO for some others to think that Dr. Hsiung is writing about medication.
> > > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60424.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Friends,
> > > > > > Here is a link to one of Dr. Hsiung's guest experts that members could read about the drug Serzone. Dr. Kramer writes:
> > > > > > A. Serzone's liver problems are quite rare
> > > > > > B. Serzone is a good drug
> > > > > > Now that was written here in 2002
> > > > > > In 2004, Serzone was taken off the market 9citation sz1) because
> > > > > > C.liver failure (people die from liver failure and there were 21 deaths linked to Serzone in the US, one possible, a 15 year old girl).
> > > > > > D.The FDA had forced the manufacturer in 2002 to add a serious liver warning, but problems continued
> > > > > > E. The drug was taken off the market in Europe, New Zealand, Austrailia and Canada and was continued to be prescribed in the US.
> > > > > > Now let us reason together here. Has not Dr. Hsiung allowed this post to remain without being updated in the thread that it appears? If so, could a member here be influenced to think that Serzone is a good drug as Dr. Hsiung's expert guest , Dr. Kramer, writes? Could it be determined as to if Dr. Kramer knew about the taking off from the market the drug in 2002 in Europe? Even though the drug has been taken off the market in 2004 in the US, could there be now some people in the US that have shelved the drug in 2004 think that they can reinstate it now if they have no knowlege of that the drug has been taken off the market?
> > > > > > Lou
> > > > > > citation sz1
> > > > > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/eveningnews/main612150.shtml
> > > > > >
> > > > > Friends,
> > > > > Serzone was known to cause liver failure well befor 2004 and was taken off the market in 2003 in Europe, Canada, Austrialia and New Zealand.
> > > > > But the drug could be still available in the U.S. as a generic and I do not know if it is or is not availble as this is written, but it could be.
> > > > > You see, that drug is from a chemical class called the Phenylpiperazines that I have been wanting to post about here. If one was prescribed a generic form of Serzone, how likely in your opinions could it be that a person receiving the drug as a generic could know that it was a phenylpiperazine as like Serzone if it still being prescribed?
> > > > > I ask in your opinions, could (you could email me for this if you like)
> > > > > Lou
> > > >
> > > > friends,
> > > > Here is the link to the post by DR. Kramer where he writes,[...Serzon's liver problems...are quite rare...] and,[...Serzone is a good drug...].
> > > > Lou
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/101267.html
> > >
> > > friends,
> > > Scott wrote that he has never seen medical advice given by Mr. Hsiung here.
> > > On the opening page of the {medicine} board, it writes that you can clik on the name of several medicines to get infomation about that drug. Mr. Hsiung has his photographic image on the top of the page. This could IMO give some people the idea that what is on the page is placed there by Mr. Hsiung for the benifit of the members.
> > > When you clck on the drug Serzone (citation sz2) you get a list of many of the things that one could like to know about that drug. Is it advice? The generally accepted meaning of {advice} is that there is infomation given that could help one make a decision. Here in this section about drugs, there is infomation that could IMO help one to make a decision as to take the drug or not. But there is not the infomation there that the drug has been associated with numerous deaths due to liver failure and that the drug was taken off the market in Europe, the U.S. in Canada, Austrailia and New Zealand around 2003-4. So is the advice such that one could have an imformed body of knowlege to make an well-informed decision as to take the drug or not in your opinions? Also, is there not the aspect of that there may be the generic equivalent that could be given by a general practioner that also may not be aware of the drug being taken off the market? Then I ask, why is the section that is on the opening page of the board called Medicine not accurate in terms of this situation that deaths could occure from liver failure by taking the drug?
> > > Lou
> > > citation sz2
> > > http://dr-bob.org/tips/nefazodone.html#side-effects
> >
> > Friends,
> > Now on the board called medication, there are many medicines listed to click on to get infomation concerning the drug, which IMO could have the potential to be considered by some to be advice about the drug. Another of the drugs is Remeron. Clicking on the link gives infomation but is there the FDA's warning that drugs of that class and others could have the increased risk of suicide to those that take the drug? If not, why not, in your opinons.
> > The FDA issued a second warning in 2005 that people taking antidepressant drugs be monitored for signs of suicidal thoughts and deepening depression. The FDA ordered manufacturers to place a warning on the lables of all antidepressants detailing those heightened risks (citation FDA1). There has been more about this since 2005.
> > Now is there this warning from the FDA in Mr. Hsiung's offering infomation about these drugs? If not, why not in your opinions? Is the offering to members to click on the links to get infomation about these drugs considered to be medical advice in your opinions?
> > Lou
> > citation FDA1
> > http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1199/0
>
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...I've never seen Dr. Hsiung give medical advice...].
> Does not that bring up as to what is meant by {medical advice}?
> When one comes to this forum, there is a wide selection of material offered by Dr. Hsiung that includes his photographic image on the top of the pages where this material about psychotropic drugs could be seen by the member.
> One board is called {medication}. This could lead some here IMO to believe that psychotropic drugs are {medication}. But what is the definition of medication?
> Let us look at this. The term {antidepresant} could lead some people to believe that there is a drug that helps to rectify some biological abnormalities that give rise to symptoms of depression as they could be led to believe IMO that the drug is a {medicine} for such. This is generally called the {disease centered} idea of the action of psychotropic drugs such as antibiotics as medicines for infections, insulin for diabetes and such that some branches of psychiatry enbrace. But is it fact? This model suggests that antidepressants help restore normal functioning by acting on the neuropathology of depressive symptoms by releving biochemical abnormalities. But is there evidence that the drugs themselves cause abnormal states?....more...
> LouFriends,
If psychotropic drugs are medicines, as Dr. Hsiung has a board called medication, then the generally accepted meaning of a medication, which is a substance that is used to treat disease, could be looked at here along with that the generally accepted meaning of to practice medicine means that a doctor does things to alleviate or cure a disease by some type of treatment that could be with medicines.
When one drinks alcohol, they may have some of their symptoms relieved, but does that mean that the alcohol corrected a chemical imbalance that was the cause of their symptoms or that the person has a disease? If one drank alcohol for years would they have their symptoms healed? Is in your opinion alcohol a {medicine}?
Now let us look at psychotropic drugs. They may releive some symptoms of distress by causing indifference or blunting of the mind in the short term, or cause euphoria as in opiates in the short term, or sedation and such, but does that mean that those drugs are medicines? If one took the drug for years, what could happen to them, would they be healed of some disease?
My friends, the effects of psychotropic drugs after a short use are well-documented with the possibility that the drugs will cause a disease such as parkinsons-like disease, and neuroleptic malignant syndrome that could lead to death and liver disease and blood disease and other diseases well-documemted in the liturature concerning these drugs along with the possibility of death by overdose and/or suicide. And what could be the quality of the life in relation to peace and joy of a person after years of taking psychotropic drugs?
What are these drugs? Do you know what they are and where they originated from and the reason that they were formulated? If you could know that and would like to, could you email me, for the new rules here make it so that I am unsure if I can post links to this infomation here so that you can make your own determination as to if psychotropic drugs are medicines or not?
Lou
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:817501
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/818685.html