Posted by tealady on February 4, 2006, at 21:26:57
In reply to Re: big enough and ugly enough, posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2006, at 12:54:40
> > > > I think he's ... ugly enough
> > >
> > > Please respect the views of others and be sensitive to their feelings.
> >
> > Its an English expression Dr Bob and is used as playful banter and not meant in the literal sense.....the terms big enough and ugly enough are used together to suggest he can handle a bit of "rough and tumble".
>
> Sorry, I wasn't familiar with that expression. I guess that's "ugly" in the sense of:
>
> > 4 b : SURLY, QUARRELSOME <an ugly disposition> <the crowd got ugly>
>
> as opposed to:
>
> > 2 a : offensive to the sight : HIDEOUS
>
> http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ugly
>
> OTOH, I'm not sure how respectful and sensitive it would be to refer to him as surly or quarrelsome, either. Anyway, there would've been less room for misunderstanding if you'd just said:
>
> > I think he can handle "rough and tumble" well enough to come and stand up for himself should he choose to do so ;-)
>
> OTOH, he may be, but posters who support him may not be.
>
> BTW, have you seen:
>
> E-mails and egos
> An inability to step outside of one's own head may be behind e-mail miscommunication, according to recent research.
> By Lea Winerman
> http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb06/egos.html
>
> Bob
>its actually meant as "not very good looking" but as a demonstration that the person is big enough to take a little knock in a friendly rough and tumble kind of way.----------------
Dr Bob, "surly and quarrelsome" is still not the right way to look at the expression either.
I guess it's unlikely you are going to get the correct meaning from a US dictionary.I'll try to explain my understanding of the phrase..
Think back to the stereotypes of the upper class of English society in the period that historical romance novels are set.. ones like "Pride and Prejudice".
Now I'll try grouping a few phrases together for the supposed stereotypes
think of what might arguably be aimed for differing stereotypes(I'm not saying females or males fit or ever did fit these stereotypes.. it's only a way of trying to explain the phrase)1. female.... pretty, small, delicate, needing a chaperone, needing someone to take care of them, sheltered, not educated in the ways of the world
2. male not pretty in a feminine way, broad shouldered, educated in the ways of the world, well travelled, maybe visited various colonies..at least done a tour of Europe, seen many sides of life, been about, opposite of sheltered, perhaps been in a war but probably some duty somewhere as an officer, able to stand up for himself and take care of others, tough and experienced with a strength
3. The differing kind of male.. a pansy, a dandy, a fop, main aim seemed to be "not ugly" .. spent time preening himself etc.
Now I KNOW none of these stereotypes hold.. but stereotype 2. is the closest I can think of to "big and ugly"
.. maybe its the known strength and toughness thru experience .. as with all phrases nothing exactly fits, not exactlyrelated to size or looks
Well that's my understanding of it.It's a phrase usually applied to males ...not to females :-)
Jan
poster:tealady
thread:603925
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060111/msgs/606422.html