Posted by fires on February 21, 2005, at 16:00:07
In reply to Re: Civility or censorship? » fires, posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 15:03:40
> >I find it almost impossible to state my opinions without getting banned. Seems some opinions are by their very nature considered uncivil, no matter how carefully they are stated.
>
> >I've always been careful to attack ideas only -- not people -- but I still get banned.
>
> Maybe it is the 'attacking' nature of it (I am quoting you by your own admission). That kind of thing tends to result in getting peoples backs up and escalating the situation. A 'carefully stated' attack is an attack nonetheless. Not very supportive I would have thought.Attack was used loosely. Just disagreeing with someone on these forums seems to be taken as an attack, i.e., "if you disagree with me, you are attacking me".
>
> > Yes. I believe that they are facts, but to try and be more civil I state that they are opinions.
>
> Hmm. So have you made your mind up on that before you have even heard other people say what they have to say? If that is so then once again you will find that people are most likely to respond defensively.
>Certainly. I've done my homework on the issues I'm talking about. Maybe those who respond defensively need to be directed to a link which will explain how they can avoid such a response?
> >It's been my experience as a skeptic/rationalist that some people "don't let the facts get in the way of their opinions."
>
> Ouch. You don't seem to think too highly of other people and their opinions. The facts aren't fixed anyway.You stated: "You don't seem to think too highly of other people and their opinions."
I think that if I had stated that I would have been banned. I don't find the statement offensive, but I do suspect that some here would/will. "They" could/will say it could hurt my feelings.
I have a lot of respect for opinions that are based on logical reasoning, but not much for those based on pseudoscience, yet I don't use ad hominem attacks against anyone. I never have and don't plan to start now.
>> You also seem to be confusing facts with opinions (by your own admission). You say you state 'facts' as 'opinions' in an attempt to be more civil. Then you say other people don't let the 'facts' (or do you mean to say your opinions) get in the way of theirs.I think I know the difference between a fact and an opinion. ;)
>
> I think a civility buddy could be a good idea...
> I too like to argue. But I don't like to have people get their backs up when discussing things with me. If people get upset then that tends to get in the way of what could have been a productive discussion at the very least.
>I don't like to argue, I like to debate. Also, I can only control my feelings. If someone gets offended because I say I disagree with them or chooses to take offense at my comments -- who needs to reconsider their feelings?
> Nobody has a fixed view on the facts.
> Not you.
> Not me.
> Not any of us.How ture. New evidence must always be considered.
Also, it must be dismissed if found insufficient/lacking.
> If you want to discuss things so as to hear other perspectives so that you may come to learn something then that is great.
> If you just want to have an arguement and get some sort of pleasure out of upsetting people and if you are convinced you are right before you even bring up the topic - not saying you do do this, but if you do - then I think it only fair that you get blocked.
>I believe that it is possible to respect someones' "perspective", but to strongly disagree with it. BTW, this is the only site(s) which find(s) me "uncivil" -- opinionated, maybe a little arrogant, but not uncivil.
I wouldn't bring up a topic of which I had no knowledge. That seems counterproductive to me.> Just my opinion FWIW
Like an English teacher once explained to me: "It's a given that it's your opinion unless you say otherwise. Stating 'in my opinion' is redundant" ;) Also, why not leave off the "just"?
> Something to think about...
>Hopefully my responses demonstrate that I gave it some thought.
Thanks
poster:fires
thread:461256
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050219/msgs/461412.html