Posted by Shar on April 8, 2002, at 3:24:30
In reply to Re: Civility vs. Propriety – Words, posted by mist on April 2, 2002, at 23:59:17
My handy dandy Funk & Wagnall's says elite is 'the choicest part, as of a social group.' It doesn't really talk about money or power, nor do I think of it in those terms. Every group has its elite; academia, arts (and subdivisions thereof), government, community organizers. The elite is like 'the in crowd.' The elite may be accepted as leaders or may not be; some may be above the conventions of leadership. Then, there is the 'real' elite group that thinks the group that thinks it is elite is actually NOT elite but rather bourgeois. And so it goes.
What gets my goat about distinguishing one group from another as below:
Mist said:
"One thing to keep in mind is that original self-expression is a **much stronger need and value** among artists than among other personality types. And particularly for writers, the words they choose to express themselves **are not incidental or interchangeable.** The thing about "four-letter" words is that they can be used to convey an energy and power in the face of oppressive circumstances and an undiluted honesty of feeling that you can't get with other words. And even if this isn't an outlet for art or other types of writing, **writers and other artists are who they are,** and they need to be welcome here too." (emphasis mine.)This type of thinking paints people with a pretty broad brush, and SEEMS to suggest that one group gets a special dispensation from social custom because of their special status (in this case artists). This type of thinking is never applied to only one group, it is everywhere. And, frankly, words are extremely important to MANY people, including non-artists. Even to people in cubicles, or who work 8-5 jobs, or just appreciate language. I love words, it is a major weakness of mine that people who couch things in certain ways can seriously get to me. Even if that person is a carpenter.
I don't think anyone really deserves a special dispensation from the rules or customs of this board or society in general simply because of their 'need' to write, paint, draw, act, sing, play an instrument, compose, etc. Or, if they do feel entitled to exceptions from custom, they should not be in the least surprised when others are offended or uncomfortable with them.
True, some people in groups just push the envelope enough to catch the spotlight. Others take it further.
Mist said:
"Four letter words can also simply be about style and the subculture that one identifies with. To me these things are very important—being in an environment where everyone has to adhere to narrow, sanitized standards of acceptable behavior and speech has a depressing effect on me."Who said anything about "sanitized standards of acceptable behavior and speech"? I don't believe people here are saying no four letter words ever! Just, offering their opinion about them. And stating if they are not comfortable with them. Personally, I think they are largely unnecessary, that there are almost always better ways to emphasize or make a point than by swearing. However, I use them also at times.
I believe the style/subculture remark is very pertinent. Some folks want to *be themselves* to a much greater extent than I want them to be themselves...just acting naturally, they say. Well, picking one's nose is natural, and I do not care to share that with anyone, or belching and farting is natural, but remains unappealing, to me at least.
There is much more commonality among groups of people than differences, and the remark about artists vs. other personality types simply emphasizes a perceived difference. In fact, some research has shown that within-group differences are greater than between-group differences. Thus, it is likely we have more in common with artists than we have differences.
I do well in a conventional setting, I hold many traditional values, and I also believe my love of words is just as present for me as it is for an artist (writer). My words are chosen carefully, with attention to nuance. By what objective standard can we measure how important the artist's words are vs. how important my words are to me?
Well, that's probably enough said.
Shar
poster:Shar
thread:3683
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020308/msgs/3990.html