Posted by SLS on September 7, 2009, at 9:14:54
In reply to Re: Suggestions re: Someone Who Refuses Medications » SLS, posted by 49er on September 6, 2009, at 11:58:14
> <<I never said anything about not respecting the feelings of another human being. It is a difficult line to walk, though, when someone's judgment is affected by an illness of the brain and an alteration of the mind.>>
>
> Agreed but a real attempt need to be made.I'm confused. A real attempt to do what?
> <<You just don't ask someone in an altered state a question once and accept the answer you get as an irrevocable decision - at least, not if you really care about their welfare.>>
> Sorry, I didn't mean to give that impression. At the same time, I hope you would allow people who initially made a decision to take meds to later change their mind.If I were a healthcare worker managing the case of a person with schizophrenia whom did poorly without medication, I would try to pursuade them that they do indeed need to be treated, especially if they are too low functioning to feed themselves while living as an indigent out on the streets. Perhaps you can suggest here how you would treat someone who is always found roaming the streets dirty, dishevelled, and hungry, talking to themselves while wearing a foil hat whenever they discontinue taking medication. Is this the type of schizophrenia you speak of?
> <<People drop in and out of treatment of their own accord. They leave when they feel well enough, often against medical advice. They return after they stop taking their medication and end up homeless.>>
>
> Unfortunately, if they cold turkey or taper these meds too quickly, that is what is going to happen.Are you telling me that it is the rate of taper that determines whether someone eventually relapses or not?
> If doctors would stop taking an all or nothing approach with meds and counsel patient that if they want to go off meds, they should taper very slowly (2.5% to 5% of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks), this might be prevented.
And you have ascertained this "fact" how?
I get it. Doctors need money, so they make sure that a patient have no chance to be well without medication so that they can insure themselves of a repeat business. In fact, such a thing can only be done if it is considered the standard protocol by "the establishment", otherwise, they might lose their licenses. Therefore, it is the establishment that hides from people that the best hope for a low functioning schizophrenic person to get well is really nutritional.
> Instead, alot of them have the attitude that patient needs to be on meds for life which creates this all or nothing approach.
What alternatives are there, in your estimation, to treat the woman who won't eat because they are cooking her meals at her boarding home using the flesh of infants.
> << Do you accept every decision a young child makes? Why not? You can continue to respect the feelings of another while not agreeing with their decisions.>>
> Scott, just because you have mental illness, doesn't mean you are a child and lose all rights to make decisions about your welfare.
I guess you missed the point. Many people with schizophrenia are less capable than a child at making the decisions for themselves that will keep them clean and fed. It's not pretty, I know, but it is no less true.
> <<The people on the mailing list you offer are lucid and not terribly ill. I find it irrelevant when dealing with people as seriously ill as are present in the program I attended.>>
> How do you know that?Oops, I apologize. I was just reading the preamble mission statement on the webpage and thought that it was representative of their membership. That writing in no way resembles a word salad (schizophasia). The author seems to be high functioning, de facto, or he would not write so comprehensively and organize a website. The site is dedicated to those who hear voices, not to schizophrenia per se.
I really don't know how you have arrived at your belief system regarding schizophrenia and its treatment and mistreatment. I find your taper hypothesis very disturbing - stated as if it were a fact that someone suffering from schizophrenia could become free of medication if they would only discontinue their drugs using your taper schedule.
- Scott
poster:SLS
thread:915268
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090902/msgs/915986.html