Posted by morganpmiller on July 9, 2009, at 0:03:41
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba, posted by SLS on July 2, 2009, at 21:38:37
>Hi. My name is Scott. You don't really know me, but I imagine you would argue that you do.
Hey Scott, I don't know you and I would not argue that I do. There is a common denominator with pretty much everyone on this planet; we simply did not get what we needed when we were developing. There are a very few lucky people out there that did, unfortunately most of us did not. And, if we were at all predisposed to having issues with depression, we were also going to be that much more likely to develop issues with depression due to the lack of proper nurture in our childhood. Now, most of us would argue that our parents are wonderful people and there was nothing wrong with our childhood. On the surface often times this may appear to be the case. You see, we all have this wonderfully powerful little coping mechanism called Denial. Besides, there is no way we could possible know what was happening at the crucial developmental ages of 2,3, and 4 when we really really needed things to be going right for us. We needed our mother's nurture and we needed it consistently. We also needed that nurture to be pure. If our mother had any of her own bouts with depression and anxiety, you can be damn sure we were the ones picking up on all of that, absorbing it like a dry sponge. That sticks with us. We could not get rid of how that effected our development emotionally and it was not just going to go away with time. The wiring that takes place during those years is permanent and the only thing to do is to get in some form of play therapy as children or other therapy as we get older.
>I don't feel that it is a necessary trigger. This might be particularly true of bipolar depression.
I understand why you feel this way. I used to think this also. Unfortunately it simply is not true. I know it is a much easier way of thinking about our afflictions. Then we don't have to face the fact that anything could have been done to prevent our disorder from developing to the point that it has. When I was hospitalized for my first major mixed episode a year and a half ago, one of the doctors and a few of the nurses talked about the factors that contributed to bipolar episodes. They spoke of people going their entire lives without having a major episode because they were able to avoid the triggers/stresses that would bring such an episode. I believe you are born with bipolar. I just believe that given the right environment and circumstances, bipolar does not have to develop into what it does for so many people. I think it is dangerous and counterproductive to think turn our eyes away from the possibility that many mental disorders can be prevented and they are maybe only 50 percent genetic. If we don't give this possibility a chance, then we will never feel the need to do what we could do to prevent people from suffering the way they do.
>> I'm sorry, none of us were simply born depressed miserable souls.
And you know this, how? (Leaving the soul out of
this)If all of us could go back to early childhood and remember exactly how we felt most of the time, I believe, we would find that we were pretty damn content. You're right, I don't know this for sure. It just makes sense to me. I wish everyone could remember their childhood with such detail. I really do not understand why it is so hard, knowing how fragile we are, to see how we would need so much, especially those of us that are more sensitive, in order to develop into emotionally healthy adults. The human mind and psyche are entirely too complex. It doesn't make sense to me that people brush off what happens in our development as a major factor in our ability to be happy and form positive relationships as we get older. Denial is the only thing I can come up with. It protects us from facing the painful truth, but prevents from making the progress we so desperately need(all of this is so much easier said than done of course).
> It blows my mind that there are still people out there that do not think their childhood had anything to do with their depression.
>Please speak for yourself. Indeed, that is who you are really speaking of, isn't it? I am sorry your childhood was such that it brought depression into your life.
I've already addressed this I think. I will say that there was a well know doctor at John's Hopkins University that said it is and has been part of the human condition that parents have failed over and over again to be able to give their children what they need. I wish I had the exact name of the doctor and the exact quote. You don't have to have a terrible childhood to have not gotten what you really needed as a child. It could be as simple as you never knowing your father, in which case your mom probably struggled some if she did not find another man to be happy with. It could be that our mother spent the first two years with us and then went to work and we ended up spending most of our time with strangers in a kindercare. Maybe our mom was always there doing everything a mom should do but she was emotionally distant. Something like this is very intangible so it's hard for people to believe that it could affect us. Please have an open mind, I and many mental health professionals believe that emotional distance has a very damaging impact on a child. Like I said before, as children, and often as adults-depending on how sensitive/empathic you are, we are like dry sponges absorbing everything. Well how could emotions that were not really being expressed be transferred in such a way??? Again, please have an open mind to the possibility that they are.
>*I* would argue that some people have an emotional investment in the idea that "we all have issues" in order to explain their own depressions. It is a form of denial. It is difficult for these people to accept that even healthy minds can become the victims of unhealthy brains. They might be afraid to admit that they might be the only one with a troubled mind.I could also argue that some people have an emotional investment in the idea that their "psychological entanglements" or emotional issues do not play any part in their mental illness/depression/anxiety, even if it is a mild case. I think I started to make an argument for this above. If our childhood had nothing to do with our struggles, than we ever have to deal with the possibility of being angry with our parents. We are already angry enough that we have to deal with depression in the firs place. If our depression has anything to do with unresolved issues from childhood, we might have to face that fact that we have to go to therapy on top of taking medication in order to have a better chance of finally getting a grip. How much would that suck. After we spent our entire lives struggling with this awful illness and trying to find the right medication, we now might have to do all of this really hard work to get to the bottom of and address somethings in our subconscious that may have contributed to making our depression worse. It actually does make sense why people would have an "emotional investment" in thinking that what happened in early development and childhood has nothing to do with their depression. Then they simply don't have to deal with any more pain. Let's face it, often times the truth is painful.
On a bit of a side note. I'm not sure if you are aware that even such mental illnesses as schizophrenia are often triggered by early trauma. Yes the genetic predisposition is there. What many don't realize is that often times this predisposition is just that. Traumatic childhood experiences along with early drug use are often the triggers that set a person predisposed to schizophrenia into their first psychotic episode.
Have you ever heard of the biopsychosocial explanation for mental illness? You know it is becoming THE explanation for the development of most mental illness. All I am saying is that it may not be good for anyone with any kind of mental illness(maybe with the exception of someone who has developed full blown psychosis and can't return to reality) to rule out the idea that much much more is contributing to their struggle than a genetic predisposition(there is no evidence of a direct genetic cause that is solely responsible anyway, hence why they call it a predisposition).
Scott, I have read some of your posts and I can tell your a good person. I'm sure you are very smart. We are both bipolar and we both know how much it sucks the big one. I know you were defending the previous poster that I was responding to, and I can appreciate that. I get the sense that you were also defending yourself. Your post sounded a bit heated. And, I guess mine did as well. Anyway, we may have to just agree to disagree on this one. Unless I started a post on the therapy section. Blah blah blah
Take Care,
Morgan
poster:morganpmiller
thread:901064
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090630/msgs/905737.html