Posted by KaraS on April 10, 2005, at 19:45:57
In reply to Re: Read this before answering my previous post » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on April 9, 2005, at 11:35:19
Hello there,
> Thanks. Actually, I didn't take it this morning. I wanted to give it another week or so but it was too fatiquing. Not sure if the fEEG or Brain Mapping would predict something like that.
So you're done with the Wellbutrin completely? How about the CES? Are you usuing that more regularly? I like the idea of it being able to hit so many different neurotransmitters at once without horrible side effects. I really hope that works well.
> I had been taking Braverman's "Pathroid", which is his T3/T4 formula, for about a month but I stopped the last few days on Wellbutrin. Will start again tomorrow morning.
Yes, that's right. You mentioned that previously. What is so unique about his "Pathroid" formula? What is the percentage of T4 to T3?
> > I didn't know that either. So you think that amisulpride is probably not any worse in this respect than any other antipsychotic?
>
> I think it may be somewhat better. But that's only my humble opinion.I had written amisulpride off of my list because someone had posted about the prolactin levels. I really shouldn't have. If I cross off too many things because of some side effects that I don't even know will be a problem for me, then I'm left with very few options. If I get over my fear of APs, then I might also try Abilify. Lately I've read a couple of posts from people having really good results from very low dose of this. My pdoc likes it and was more than willing to prescribe it for me. Wish I weren't such a chicken sh*t!
Have you considered Abilify? Is that only on your list if you need to move beyond the NMDA antagonists?
> > Nope. I was thinking of hydergine. I just knew it was a "smart drug" so I associated it with Ach. (but thanks for trying to save me :-))
>
> Sure you weren't thinking of arganine? :-)Yes, that's it! Arganine. (NOT!)
> > This may seem like a dumb question, but if you suppress glutamate do you run the risk of increasing anxiety (because glutamate eventually becomes GABA)?
>
> I don't know. But according to Dr. Braverman's Brain Mapping I'm high in GABA. (Which should also suggest I'm high in glutamate.) You would think being high in GABA would suppress anxiety but it hasn't. It may be because a hyperglutamatergic state trumps GABA's calming effects by it's overstimulation of the NMDA receptor. Too much glutamate initially may cause too much dopamine release in stressfull situations which converts too quickly to NE than epinephrine. This is what over time causes the DA deficit. Glutamate actually does cause DA secretion, but I think it's being chronically elevated is what overstimulates the DA auoreceptors ultimately causing a decrease in dopamine release.Ok, sounds feasible I think.
> > Also, if you keep glutamate from stimulating dopamine autoreceptors, does that then lead to downregulation or a decrease in the number of those DA autoreceptors?
>
> I think Dr. Goldstein is implying that without glutamate overstimulating the autoreceptors, the synapse will return to a more normal state of affairs. I.e. you would be able to secrete a "proper" amount of DA without the overexcited autoreceptor prematurely shutting down it's release from the presynaptic neuron.I was under the impression that hypersensitive autoreceptors meant that the number of autoreceptors stays the same and they just start overresponding to DA in the synapse. Others here corrected me and said that hypersensitive actually meant that the autoreceptors were too dense - that more of them are created and that's what causes the overresponsiveness. So when you downregulate them, you're actually decreasing the number of autoreceptors.
> > Guaifenesin is the stuff in cough syrups that is supposed to loosen mucous, right? You can get that in pills? Is it over the counter? I'm very curious as to how that will work for you. Have you thought about acamprosate at all?
>
> Yep. It's been used by that Dr. St. Amand for a while but he didn't know how it worked. Dr. Goldstein explains that it antagonizes the NMDA glycine receptor which is why it's helping some CFS FMS patients. It is over the counter. I bought it last year online after reading St. Amands book. I bought it but never bought his theory so I didn't take it. I will try it now.Since I also have CFS I will be very interested to see how the guaifenisen works for you.
> > Have you thought about acamprosate at all?
>
> No. But it's funny you mentioned it. My friend on the Lamictal is looking for the final ten or twenty percent improvement. So Dr. Braverman suggested Campral.
> "Campral (acamprosate) has in vitro affinity for GABA type A and GABA type B receptors, so it's been assumed that the therapeutic effects of acamprosate are due to actions on GABA receptors. However, acamprosate does not share most of the other effects of GABA receptor modifying drugs, such as antianxiety, hypnotic, or muscle relaxant activity. It is therefore possible, perhaps likely, that the effects are mediated some other way. Acamprosate is structurally related to l-glutamic acid (l-gutamate), which is an excitatory neurotransmitter. It's been proposed that acamprosate decreases the effects of the naturally-occurring excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate in the body. Since chronic alcohol consumption disrupts this system, and the changes last many months after alcohol ingestion is stopped, it's possible that acamprosate somehow restores the glutamate system towards normal. It's thought, no matter how it acts, that Campral decreases the pleasant "high" associated with alcohol consumption, and thus decrease the frequency of relapse during abstinence."I will be interested to hear how your friend fares on Campral. Sounds like even if you don't get to see Braverman much while he's off trying to become a star, he does at least come up with some good suggestions.
> Sounds like an interesting med. I don't get that nice relaxed feeling after a couple of beers that I used to get. I just feel irritated. However, on the rare occasion when I have 7 or 8 drinks. Like my cousin's wedding a few months ago. I notice that while I have a hard time sleeping and wake up a little woozey, my body also feels better the next day and I'm very horny! I'm still trying to figure out what this means. The alcohol is obviously relieving something in my brain. I found some absracts that say at higher amounts alocohol is indeed a glutamate/NMDA antagonist. And the withdrawal effects that alcoholics have may be due to the increased glutamate/NMDA activity when the alcohol is stopped. Interesting huh?Yeah. Your reaction to alcohol adds to your theory.
> Not really. It is the top of the range, but if you tolerate it well enough at that dose you can cautiously go higher. Even to 600mg or more. My fiend and Dr. Braverman are considering this right now.
I don't know that much about Lamictal doses - only what I've seen people post here that they take. If your friend isn't 100% yet, then it makes sense to try increasing the Lamictal or augmenting with something else. BTW, does this friend of yours also use the CES device or any other supplements from Dr. B or does he credit his improvement solely to Lamictal?
> > Have you been diagnosed as bipolar? My doctor thinks I might have a soft bipoloar condition because I haven't responded fully to antidepressants and I have periods of more anxiety/agitation.
>
> I was wondering about this, but was almost certain I'm not bipolar. As a matter of fact I wish I were. I haven't had anything approaching hypomania in 20 years. Dr. Barverman gives Millon psychological tests as part of his initial battery of tests. It measures all kinds of psychological problems. I scored over 100 on anxiety and dysthymia (my 2 highest scores) and 0, i repeat, 0, for bipolar. Also zero or near zero for two other bipolar markers. I also came up high for somataform disorder (reflecting physical issues) and compulsiveness. Basically, I think it was spot on. If you do turn up being somewhat bipolar it's all the more reason to try Lamictal.I wonder what my tests would show. I assume that the rEEG would show if there were some bipolarity. At least it would show if I would respond well to Lamictal which would then in itself imply bipolarity. It's nothing I ever considered about myself until recently but it's worth checking out.
> > Wow. That's quite a cocktail. Has he been on Mirapex for long or is this a new addition? It seems like all of the people on this board who have tried it, developed a great deal of fatigue on it after a while (though not initially).
>
> I need to get more info. as to what order he added them, but I'm pretty sure he took the entire cocktail for about 2 years before he started tapering. He actually gave me his phone number and said I could call him to discuss it if I wanted. As far as I know he's not selling anything and seems quite sincere. I think he's so happy he got well that he wants to help out if he can. I will call him at some point soon, but I don't want to start hounding him and scare him away. :-)
Sounds like a nice guy who wants to help others in the same way that he's been helped. Now he saw a doctor who utilized Goldstein's protocols, correct? That's how he came up with that cocktail? (Just want to make sure I'm keeping my facts straight here.)
> It's hard to get moving. Believe me I've spent so much money on this wild goose chase I don't even want to think about it. I'm not even woking right now. The company that I worked for for 10 years was bought by a competitor and put out of business last year. I'm living off of my savings. I really need to start working again but I'm worried that if I end up trapped in a stressful situation again it'll surely kill me. I'm so stress averse right now. I think that definitely reflect a state of low chatecholamines. I'm not sure if Dr. Goldstein's theory is my problem, but his description of the typical neurosomatic patient fits me perfectly. The genetic predisposition, the childhood stress, the broken right arm at 6 and 14 causing chronic pain (irritating the brain), etc. And how neurosomatic patients are almost incapable of becoming addicted to drugs. Which was backed up on my Millon test. How the SSRI's haven't helped.I can totally relate. I'm out of work and was traumatized at a couple of recent jobs. That along with my predisposition to anxiety and depression really put me in a bad state. I'm literally terrified to go back to the workplace. I've been living off of my savings as well. It's not a situation. The only good thing now is that I'm taking a small amount of doxepin which has the anxiety completely under control. A few weeks ago I couldn't eat or sleep because of stress. Just taking a shower was a Herculean feat. Now I'm still quite depressed but I can handle stress and function day to day. So I guess I'm part of the way there. It sure would be nice to get rid of the depression, think clearly and have energy/motivation. It seems to far fetched to even hope for such a cure at this point. Fortunately I come here often and read about others who have had those kinds of drastic improvements. I think that as long as we keep trying to understand, we'll eventually figure it all out and find appropriate solutions.
> But the fact that I did have a couple of almost "normal" days after stopping the Zoloft proved to me that I can feel good agian. And that it is all related to brain chemistry. I'm sure I'll never feel 20 again, but I'll take a healthy 39. We really have no choice but to keep on trying.It really is related to brain chemistry and possibly other things going on in the body physiologically. It will be worth all of the searching when we find something(s) that work for us. Just imagine feeling joy in living again, jumping out of bed in the morning because we can't wait to face the new day! It can happen.
K
poster:KaraS
thread:473033
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050408/msgs/482529.html