Posted by alesta on September 29, 2004, at 3:53:34
In reply to Re: Cymbalta honeymoon is over » alesta, posted by steve12 on September 28, 2004, at 15:08:47
hi, steve,:)
thanks for your replies! i appreciate that.:) this is an interesting discussion...:)
yes, i absolutely agree, as i said in my last post, SSRIs can work well for anxiety. (although not effective enough for some.) i just
wondered if it was due to the emotional numbness or to the serotonin. that's why i wanted to seek more evidence with serotonin enhancers that didn't have the emotional numbness as a side effect.i'm not totally sure about dopamine, either.:) and i have no idea whether all these studies are from the drug companies or not. is there any way to tell which ones are by the drug cos.? (sorry if that is a dumb question.:)) although, studies aside, here is some strong evidence in favor of dopamine's role in anxiety. on remedyfind (which has patient ratings of various meds), parnate has an *excellent* rating for anxiety disorders.
it got a whopping 9.5 rating for effectiveness! check it out. while imipramine only rated a 4.5 and effexor rated a 6.4 (effexor might be more "high-powered" than imipramine). imipramine and effexor affect serotonin and norepinephrine. (the only difference between them and parnate is the lack of effect on *dopamine*.)
also, here is a great post i saw on PB from kregpark. it talks specifically about social anxiety. i don't know how much merit there is to these studies and such, but it is interesting!.."One more on DOPAMINE:
More evidence linking SP with low DOPAMINE:
Those with SP are 5 times more likely to
get Parkinson's in later life, according to
at least one large well done study I saw.Two studies looking at brains (Couldn't say how
the 2nd but first was MRI I think) showed SP
folks had dysufnctional (causing low dopamine)
D2 receptors in striatum in 1 study and don't
recall the other study exactly.SMOKING: 5 times lower rate of Parkinson's in
heavy smokers (lung cancer get them instead!!!)
This is well established in AMA books etc.CAFFIENE: Recent studies (made Newsweek cover or
was it US NW Report?) show more coffee each
day lower Parkinson's risk with heaviest coffee
drinkers 5 times LESS likely to get Parksinson's.
(I've always LOVED LOTS of caffiene - am I
self medicating low dopamine levels?)(Rick: I recall that you don't benefit much or
maybe negatively from caffiene? I thought you
mentioned some panic type symtoms occasionally
also? Anyway my comment was just that studies
show than PANIC DISORDER patients respond with
ANXIETY TO CAFFIENE and SOCIAL PHOBIA patients
(no panic disorder) DO NOT normally get anxiety.Also Panic Disorder responds to imipramine
(no DOPAMINE++, SP does not), but BOTH respond
to Nardil very well (similar to imipramine but
with DOPAMINE ++ ).KregPark"
<As for Dr. Tracy's statements -- has this been supported in peer reviewed journals? There are a lot of anti-pharm books out there that, in my opinion, are simply trying to make a $. Are we really to believe that use of SSRI's is strongly associated with hypoglycemia and... then diabetes? I'm not aware of a single study that has shown this to be true.
good point, steve! i don't know.
> and concerning norepinephrine's role in anxiety, i have compared the success rate of effexor and the success rate of prozac (an SSRI) for anxiety, and it was *exactly that same*. if norepinephrine played a significant role then you would expect the success rate to increase with effexor. but i admittedly am still unsure about norepinephrine...
<But that data is all from the drug companies, right? Can you trust that? Plus, if NE leads to anxiety, anxiety would be *higher* with Effexor, which many clinicans report is, in fact, the case.
no, that data is not from drug companies. it is from my comparisons of patient ratings on remedyfind. also, i didn't say that NE leads to anxiety, only that i don't think it *helps* anxiety.
<I value your thoughts!
thanks..i value yours, too! this thread has been very educational!
you take care,:)
amy
poster:alesta
thread:390747
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040927/msgs/396694.html