Posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2003, at 21:15:04
In reply to Re: tyrosine » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on August 22, 2003, at 19:57:48
> LaRRY. Thank you soooo much. You have given me many ideas to try, and much to learn, a lot of hope.
Hope, that's very special. I'm glad to be a part of that.
> >The thyroid enzymes that are core to normal thyroid function require selenium (as selenocysteine). If you're not already taking it, get some selenium yeast. Most selenium supplements are from selenium yeast, but I have seen some that mention selenate or selenite. Avoid the latter.
>
> Yes, I was taking the yeast form..selenomethionine?.Selenomethionine and selenocysteine are both present in selenium yeast, but the former in much greater concentration.
> I did read somwhere about the different pathways of the forms, but have forgotten,sigh... Most on the thyroid forum seem to take the selenite form as they are worried about the yeast with coeliac, which sems to occur with a lot in a mild form...
I don't have the links at hand, but selenite just doesn't yield the same biochemical results. About yeast, I'm still undecided if that is a cause or a result. So-called leaky gut syndrome isn't yet clearly described, insofar as etiology, and thus, I'm not certain if "curing" that syndrome would not perhaps also fix the yeast sensitivity.
> >Selenium is also a neuroprotective antioxidant. Your body may be under massive oxidative stress from the chronic thyroid problems. It's possible your selenium is totally tied up elsewhere. Moreover, if you have amalgam fillings in your teeth, you may have high mercury exposure, which severely impacts selenium and all its enzymes.
>
> Yes, know about the amalgam..have lots, removed 6 small ones..12 or so biggies to go..some next week(hopefully). I do take some selenium beforehand and after to help.There's not much more you can do, IMHO, than maintain good selenium stores. Chelation therapy, as with EDTA, does more harm than good, in situations where there is chronic heavy metal exposure. In acute exposure, you want to get rid of all the free metal you can. In chronic exposure, you're as likely to remove all the beneficial minerals like zinc, as you are to get a significant amount of e.g. mercury out of the body.
> >The fact that you're needing to take T3 implicates selenium, at least indirectly (there are always other factors that may dominate), but the conversion of levothyroxine (T4) to triiodothyronine (T3) via deiodinase (three types) requires selenium.
>
> Yes, I've read about D1,D2,D3..but got lost. I know they exist though<g> http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/5/4/306.htmlExcellent article. Thanks for the link. It indicates that alphalipoic acid is contraindicated in those with T4 to T3 conversion, so one bit of my advice must be retracted. I'm certainly going to look into that, as antioxidant therapy is generally beneficial in thyroid disease, but here, it seems, one of the better antioxidants has a contrary effect.
> I found personally 50mg was too much for me..and looked at my blood tests and my selenium was above range, with no selenium.
Selenosis (excess selenium) can have similar symptoms to selenium deficiency. Have you had your water tested, by any chance?
> My Mum also found 25mg was too much for her. Her blood tested out even higher. The symptoms for "too much " are ..metallic taste in mouth, increased fatigue, and weight gain, and symptoms occur within a few days. It depends on the selenium content of the soil where your food is grown, cattle graze etc. I looked up the soil contents over the world and found some parts of Queensland have high levels, the US is pretty low in general.
So, you're in Queensland? Have you any knowledge about your local environment, with respect to selenium?
> On the thyroid forum, some have really been helped a lot by selenium, most find a range of 50-100 mg is enough.
> This is one I think is a biggie too.
> With me it must be the "other factors".I was trying to keep it simple, as it gets complex very quickly.....but do you use zinc? Were you tested for that?
> >If you're under oxidative stress (I really think you are), then fish oil will help restore membranes and receptors to their normal functional condition.
> I couldn't agree more about the oxidative stress.
> I had tried fish oil ...still have some in my fridge, but when I broke open the capsule it was rancid smelling. So I stopped using them.If they smell rancid before use, then they are spoiled. Sorry. I hope you find a fresh supply.
> I had also heard of the mercury toxicity of fish making them not desirable to eat too much of.
There is no detectable mercury in fish oil processed for human consumption. Mercury binds tightly to protein, and all protein is removed from the fish oil to extend its shelf life. Mercury is insoluble in the oil. Only crude (impure) fish oil, the sort fed to fish in captivity, may have mercury still present. Fish flesh is a mercury risk. Not fish oil.
>I also use to get "fish burps" and was told this was as the fish oil was rancid?
Yes, that's the primary cause. Another is taking it on an empty stomach. Stomach acid will make it go rancid right in your tummy. Same result.
Take fish oil with your largest, fattiest meal of the day. That reduces exposure to acid (it's like buffering the oil), and promotes bile release, which maximizes uptake.
> I've ordered in some fish oil of a different type..made from sardines and anchovies?, which supposedly have a lower mercury content. I'm in Oz and there appears to be no mercury free here..although one brand claims they source fish oil tested for mercury levels and only buy the top grade of 5 grades..but they only sell to practioners at present. Couldn't find anyone to sell it to me so far.
Fish oil is a world commodity, like coconut oil. Fish oils in Britain and America are mercury free, so I can't quite figure out why Aussie products would be any different.
> I already order my methcobalamin and P5P - B6 in from the US. I get hydrocobalamin injections here...the choice being hydrocobalamin or cyanocobalamin... ..not available over here. So far have managed to get thru customs.
>
> Now looks like betaine(TMG) and NADH are also not available here..looked in past 2 days. Thanks, I hadn't heard of those.The NADH may be particularly helpful (intuition).
> I have tried years ago niacinamide,,didn't notice anything.
>
> I have also just recently started taking betaine hydrochloride just after)or during) a large protein meal..in case it helps with digestion, but I can only take on a full stomach. The first time I could feel the acid..and I have never had ny IBS or acid before or since.Betaine hydrochloride is not the same thing as TMG. There's quite a bit of nomenclature confusion around these two, but trimethylglycine (also known as anhydrous betaine, or betaine free-base) can be precitated as a salt out of hydrochloric acid, yielding betaine hydrochloride. The acid functional group is really a protonated amine (NH4+), but as amines go, this one really likes to get rid of that acid bit. Betaine HCl can cause acid burns in the esophagus, and can damage the stomach lining (if not taken with care).
I recommend the use of the anhydrous form, TMG. It's mildly sweet, and dissolves quite readily in water. It can't burn you, like the other stuff can.
> At he same time as the betaine hydrochloride I have tried digestive enzymes..bromelaine, pepsin and enteric coated pancreatin,papain and protease. Unfortunately hey are no longer available here either, sigh. I can get just bromelaine and papain..not enteric coated though. Sometimes I drink pineapple juice.
Bromelain has many other benefits apart from its proteolytic activity. It is an anti-inflammatory and immune regulator, among other things. It's derived from the stem of the raw pineapple plant, so I don't know if there's any similar benefit from the cooked (pasteurized) juice. I was amazed to discover that bromelain is absorbed into the blood, whole. It is a huge protein, but it leaves the gut somehow. There are some unanswered questions, like how it avoids inducing an allergic response, but it seems to retain activity in the blood. There's an excellent monograph on it at the Thorne site, but I don't have the link handy.
> When I lived in Qld, I grew pawpaw trees. I always felt better with a pawpaw after a steak meal...so there is something to the digestion bit.
> Thanks again Larry..more later
> JanGlad to chat. Keep the hope. There's lots to sort out, yet.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:246486
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030818/msgs/253275.html