Posted by JohnX on October 24, 2001, at 22:49:05
In reply to Re: medication poop-out questionaire » JohnX, posted by JGalt on October 24, 2001, at 11:34:34
A much more interesting line of meds are
nmda-antagonists. This would include pcp,ketamine,
mk-801, dextromethorphan,and memantine. These meds
directly antagonize stimulation of nmda receptors
as opposed to clamping down on the voltage threshold
required to activate the neuron (as lamictal does).Unfortunately the more "competitive" nmda antagonists
like mk-801,ketamine,pcp can cause hallucinagenic
side effects at high doses and brain damage.
There was originally hope that the research med mk-801
could be used as an epilepsy anti-convulsant/and or
neuroprotective agent, but the clinical trials were abrupty halted
with no explanation. Later a Dr. Olney discovered
that in certain areas of the brain glumate (primarily
a stimulatory chemical) actually stimulates GABA
neurons (inhibitory) via NMDA receptors. These areas
of the brain would become potentially damaged due to
lack of indirect excitation of GABA receptors leading
to something called "Olney's Lesion" in the brain.
Since then researches have tried to develop meds
that are "non-competitive" nmda antagonists. They
primarily antagonize glutamate release only during
pathological activation, and allow normal glutamate
flow during regular activation. Memantine, a medication
prescribed in Germany for about a decade, is being
studied for clinical trials in the US. Primarily
they are going for therapeutic treatment of
neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimers, glaucoma,
and peripheral neuropathy, but the med could also
treat muscle spasticity, development of tolerance,
parkinson's and possibly other disorders.If you are interested in learning more, you can
review a website www.memantine.com and also do
searches on medline at :http://psychiatry.medscape.com/Home/Topics/psychiatry/directories/dir-PSY.JournalRoom.html
BTW, my interest is not in having a medication to
help people cosmetically, but rather help people in
serious need of adjuctive medication to help prevent
"poop-out" of psychiatric meds (where ADD meds
like dextroamphetamine would fit in).Thanks for your interesting "real world" information.
-john
> John, very interesting on the Lamictal, hadn't heard of that before. Yes it does sound almost too good to be true, but once in a while we get something like that.
>
> This would obviously be a miracle for many people both depressed and not if 1. You don't eventually develop a tolerance to Lamictal and 2. The NMDA receptors don't eventually peter out. I wonder what higher doses of Lamictal could accomplish, perhaps even less tolerance to the stimulants to a certain point.
>
> This is actually a trick many bodybuilders+ powerlifters take advantage of, perhaps it would also be of some use here. Tolerance to 25mg of ephedrine (an alpha-2 agonist I believe) is generally acheived in a week or less. So when you don't get anything from it anymore, you drop it and use yohimbine (an alpha-2 antagonist) till it drops off, then you repeat the cycle. Also use DLPA everyday to replenish the norepinephrine you're undoubtalby depleting. Logically you can take all of them at once too, just small dosage. This would prevent the dreaded effect of ephedrine (impotence in people with already low sex drives, in fact, yohimbine is considered an aphrodisiac by some) I've been wanting to try the above combo to reduce sleepiness for a while, but haven't gotten bothered getting ahold of any yohimbine yet. Ephedrine is really quite pleasant when you don't have a tolerance, like a weaker adderal (though adderal has that energizing dopamine release), provided you don't have a preexisting heart condition. I guess I'd still opt for the adderal though personally for depression, though ephedrine also has the nice side effect of eliminating many symptoms of the common cold. This will give me another idea on something to ask my doc to try out if he's unwilling on the selegiline since I have absolutely no problem with adderal provided it doesn't have a tolerance.
>
> Well I'll be interested in hearing about it once more people are using Lamictal and we get some idea of what degree it defeats the criteria I set above for it being a perfect drug combo.
>
> They just put my mom on the Lamictal. She responds very poorly to stimulants (she's on the 12hr-Ritalin one right now, but I noticed nothing even when she 1st started, maybe its because they always have her on so many sedative drugs) so maybe they did it to reduce tolerance to the clonozepam (if they even know about this tolerance reducing effect, they didn't reduce her dosages of either drug). Well we'll see if she or I notice any difference in her otherwise lethargic and worn down behavior/mood.
poster:JohnX
thread:81909
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011015/msgs/82237.html