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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on December 23, 2006, at 10:48:11
In reply to Re: Barbs and Benzos » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on November 16, 2006, at 12:50:26
> Hi
>
> Phenobarbital is quite different to the barbiturate hynotics. Its subjective effects are different. Pheno is the only barb which is a powerful anticonvulsant at sub-hypnotic doses.
>
> >Phenobarbital strangely had little effect on the withdrawal syndrome but made me feel very leaden and heavily sedated, and in a bad way.
>
> Pheno and the other barbiturates act at different receptors to the benzos. The use of pheno to treat benzo withdrawal symptoms does not appear to be a good idea.
It seems the use of phenobarbital for benzo detox was once common!--------------------------------------------------
17. MY DOCTOR HAS ASKED ME TO SWITCH TO A DRUG CALLED "PHENOBARBITAL" FOR DETOXIFICATION. IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?No. Although this method of "detoxification" is commonly practised in the USA, it has long been abandoned in the UK and is even regarded by some authorities as barbaric. It is best avoided.
--------------------------------------------------http://www.benzo.org.uk/FAQ1.1.htm
Q
Posted by psychobot5000 on December 23, 2006, at 10:49:21
In reply to Phenobarbital as a benzo detox » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 16:10:22
Many docs are under the impression that merely because a drug is old, it is inferior--thus the impression of barbiturates being used for anything as 'barbaric.'
This is bias. Old drugs can still have good uses, despite bias (driven by the pharmaceutical industry, and our conceptions of old medicine being crude, which is not always true) against them. Phenobarbital use for benzodiazepine detox should not be discarded without a specific medical reason. Barbiturates are, as I understand it, analogous to benzodiazepines, but with a smaller theraputic index, making them in, theory, highly appropriate for detox.
Posted by Quintal on December 23, 2006, at 10:49:21
In reply to Re: Phenobarbital as a benzo detox, posted by psychobot5000 on December 13, 2006, at 22:19:17
>Many docs are under the impression that merely because a drug is old, it is inferior--thus the impression of barbiturates being used for anything as 'barbaric.'
I think the author may be referring to the severe and unpleasant side effects of Phenobarbital. It is often viewed as an 'incapacitating' drug by people who have taken it on medical prescription.
>Barbiturates are, as I understand it, analogous to benzodiazepines, but with a smaller therapeutic index, making them in, theory, highly appropriate for detox.
The benzodiazepines are selective to a unique set of receptors that inhibit activity in specific parts of the brain, while barbiturates are non-selective CNS depressants and inhibit activity all throughout the brain.
Perhaps they are indeed better than quitting cold turkey so long as it is done in a controlled setting, but I imagine withdrawing from Phenobarbital is not much fun either. I'd never heard much about barbs being used in benzo withdrawal before I stumbled upon that article by chance. From a pharmacological perspective it's going out of the frying pan, into the fire though and I suspect that's why doctors are not so enthusiastic about using it.
I wonder if there is any more info on Phenobarbital being used as a benzo detox. Is it still being used now?
Q
Posted by psychobot5000 on December 23, 2006, at 10:49:21
In reply to Re: Phenobarbital as a benzo detox » psychobot5000, posted by Quintal on December 14, 2006, at 11:56:03
I can't speak to phenobarbital specifically, but my impression is that the more popular barbiturates are still used, but quite rarely.
I can see how its non-selective (as you say) nature would make it problematic to use, but...I would hope that, the time for use in benzo-detox would at least be too brief a time to develop dependency on it. I assume that this would be the theory behind it. I suppose the best way to find out how this would work out would be to find an eighty year-old psychiatrist and ask how well it worked back in the day.
Cheers,
P-bot
Posted by halcyondaze on December 23, 2006, at 10:51:36
In reply to Re: Phenobarbital as a benzo detox, posted by psychobot5000 on December 14, 2006, at 16:39:45
I detoxed from high dose Xanax (12 mg/day) with Phenobarbital a couple of months ago. It was a lifesaver.
Posted by Quintal on December 24, 2006, at 16:15:03
In reply to Re: Phenobarbital as a benzo detox, posted by halcyondaze on December 19, 2006, at 21:14:56
> I detoxed from high dose Xanax (12 mg/day) with Phenobarbital a couple of months ago. It was a lifesaver.
Did you detox in hospital? Can you describe your experience in more detail - like doses used etc.?
Q
Posted by kenny6 on January 23, 2010, at 23:18:00
In reply to Re: Phenobarbital as a benzo detox » halcyondaze, posted by Quintal on December 24, 2006, at 16:15:03
In August I was placed on Phenobarb after being a daily user of clonazepam for over a year and a half. Just stop talking about..God, I was so delusional on Kpins. Just. Go. To. Detox. You are a different person on benzos. You REALLY acknowledge that after the fact. Life gets so much better...I never thought I'd quit. I'm only 20 tho
> > I detoxed from high dose Xanax (12 mg/day) with Phenobarbital a couple of months ago. It was a lifesaver.
>
> Did you detox in hospital? Can you describe your experience in more detail - like doses used etc.?
>
> Q
This is the end of the thread.
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