![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by musky on October 7, 2006, at 0:41:32
hello all:
just to let uyou know that I am off remeron for 4.5months.. anyone who is struggling with withdrawl hang in there..
When I had /have my times I just push through it I never consider the drug anymore.. there are other ways.. the way i see it ,,if you go back on it to try to right yourself you will never move forward because then everytime uyou try to come off the drug you will get some withdrawl to some extent or another..
Its like the alcoholic who is scared to stop the booze because of withdrawl.. but he must never drink again if he wants to get through the withdrawl permenantly.. does this make sense?We all have our strategies to cope with withdrawl , but if we keep introducing the same 'stuff " to the mix we will keep going backwards.. There are many many ways to wellness. Just keep trying ALL avenues not just one avenue
Good luck
Musky
Posted by notfred on October 7, 2006, at 1:46:24
In reply to OFF Remeron, posted by musky on October 7, 2006, at 0:41:32
I found remeron easy to stop. I was on it for ~5 years. It has a longer 1/2 life so there should not be any troubling effects from stopping it. In theory. I stopped it cold with no problems, though
I moved to Lunesta. I would of had sleeping problems had I stopped it cold w/o another med for sleep. My sleep has been jacked all my life.I used to like it for sleep and as an augment to Effexor and then Wellby. However, after I go off it I discovered it was a player in causing weight gain as I dropped 35 lbs once I stopped it, Remeron was the partial cause. I also found it was causing apathy and was a player in killing my libido.
Posted by SLS on October 7, 2006, at 3:09:53
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by notfred on October 7, 2006, at 1:46:24
> I found remeron easy to stop. I was on it for ~5 years. It has a longer 1/2 life so there should not be any troubling effects from stopping it. In theory. I stopped it cold with no problems, though
> I moved to Lunesta. I would of had sleeping problems had I stopped it cold w/o another med for sleep.That's interesting. People find it easier to withdraw from SRI drugs if they take a short course of a benzodiazepine. With the SRI drugs, I think this has an added advantage of preventing a kindling effect and may shorten the withdrawal time. But that's a personal theory of mine.
- Scott
Posted by johnnyj on October 7, 2006, at 10:24:34
In reply to OFF Remeron, posted by musky on October 7, 2006, at 0:41:32
Musky:
I don't know how in the world you can compare an alcoholic to someone who has depression or other mental issues. I am tired of this anti-med arguement and will not discuss this further as I feel attacked for not doing as well as you.
You even said you were not put on meds for depression so how can you compare to others with these disorders? You withdrawal may be different than us that took remeron for depression/anxiety. You make sweeping generalizations based on your own experiences and deem all meds bad. I just don't understand. I guess you feel this helps your situation but it doesn't help mine. I am out of here as this thread is no longer about withdrawal but just anti-med. Good bye to all that were supportive and good luck in your quest to get healthy.
johnnyj
Posted by notfred on October 7, 2006, at 10:41:23
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » notfred, posted by SLS on October 7, 2006, at 3:09:53
> That's interesting. People find it easier to withdraw from SRI drugs if they take a short course of a benzodiazepine.
>
Yep. That is the way I do it. Even if I am changing meds, like Effexor to Wellby, I take a little ativin to smooth things over.>With the SRI drugs, I think this has an added advantage of preventing a kindling effect and may shorten the withdrawal time. But that's a personal theory of mine
>
I think kindling effects are real and must be handled to avoid shocking the CNS. If you do not attend to them you are shooting yourself in the foot and setting up a series of events that will
make your condition worse long term, or cause you to destabalize, or have a really rough time stopping meds.
Posted by SLS on October 7, 2006, at 11:08:13
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by notfred on October 7, 2006, at 10:41:23
Hi, NotFred.
By the way, How are you doing?
- Scott>
> > That's interesting. People find it easier to withdraw from SRI drugs if they take a short course of a benzodiazepine.
> >
>
>
> Yep. That is the way I do it. Even if I am changing meds, like Effexor to Wellby, I take a little ativin to smooth things over.
>
> >With the SRI drugs, I think this has an added advantage of preventing a kindling effect and may shorten the withdrawal time. But that's a personal theory of mine
> >
>
>
> I think kindling effects are real and must be handled to avoid shocking the CNS. If you do not attend to them you are shooting yourself in the foot and setting up a series of events that will
> make your condition worse long term, or cause you to destabalize, or have a really rough time stopping meds.
>
Posted by SLS on October 7, 2006, at 11:31:49
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » musky, posted by johnnyj on October 7, 2006, at 10:24:34
Now, Johnny, don't make me come out there after you!
Please stick around. There are new people popping in here all of the time who can profit from your experiences. Besides, I am not well-versed in Remeron withdrawal. It feels good to give support as well as get support.
I hope you reconsider your decision to leave. There are still people here who need you and who you can still count on for support when you could use some for yourself.
These boards change personality from time to time. They don't necessarily morph into something that is irreversible. If you feel the need to take a vacation from the Withdrawal board for now, that might very well be what is best for you. You might consider the other boards that are available.
Depression is a disgusting beast. It is a formidable foe that assumes many forms. It is stealthy and can creep up on you. It can be insidious or paroxsysmal. I feel like going into a lengthy dissertation here, but I would be a bit of a hypocrite to do so. Suffice it to say that depression is just one word used to describe a great many things; biological, psychological, and conditions where both interact. Use all of the tools that we have available. I won't endorse any one in particular, but know that biological psychiatry is in its infancy and that psychological therapies can work for the right conditions. In my mind it is not "us against them". It is more like "us and them". Someday, I hope it will just be "we".
Good luck to you. You are a good man.
- Scott
------------------------------------------------
> Musky:
>
> I don't know how in the world you can compare an alcoholic to someone who has depression or other mental issues. I am tired of this anti-med arguement and will not discuss this further as I feel attacked for not doing as well as you.
>
> You even said you were not put on meds for depression so how can you compare to others with these disorders? You withdrawal may be different than us that took remeron for depression/anxiety. You make sweeping generalizations based on your own experiences and deem all meds bad. I just don't understand. I guess you feel this helps your situation but it doesn't help mine. I am out of here as this thread is no longer about withdrawal but just anti-med. Good bye to all that were supportive and good luck in your quest to get healthy.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by notfred on October 7, 2006, at 11:38:25
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by SLS on October 7, 2006, at 11:08:13
> Hi, NotFred.
>
> By the way, How are you doing?
>Thanks for asking.
This morning I got hit with a major allergy attack, so I unleashed a counter attack; Prednisone, Nasalide, Astelin, and extra Zyrtec, CiproDex drops in my ears, and Patanol drops for the eyes. All openings in my head had freaked out and I was sneezing back to back for a hour. It just stopped. Cranked up the HEPA filter to max.
whew.Otherwise, things are looking good. Tuesday I go to court with my lawyer to clear up the mess of tickets that i got after an Elk ran in front my of
car several years ago. I had no choice but to drive an unsafe car, the headlights would sometime go out and I would get tickets for this. I could not get insurance for the car & not renew my liscense so tickets just piled up. So I have been w/o a drivers liscense for years. I do have a new car but drive as little as possible so my social life has been nil the last few years. Too scared to drive with all the warrents on my name.Looks like work will move me into the Senior Network Admin postition; I took the Unix admin position 8 months ago just to get away from a low paying admin job. I am a Network Engineer by experience and love networks. I hate servers, but am good at Unix and was willing to do Unix Admin just to get a 100% raise while I looked for a network job. Nice that I may not have to leave my present employer. The have a large state wide network, that makes it fun.
It has been very stressful at work as we were short 2 Unix admins, so I was it for 7 months, admining servers all over the state. Just got 2 other Unix admins. Whew. But I really saved works
a**, as the previous only admin died and they were without for 2 months b4 I started. I am now the hero at work, it is nice to get off to a good start at a new job & have them quickly feel confidence in me.
Posted by jules354 on October 7, 2006, at 11:53:27
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » johnnyj, posted by SLS on October 7, 2006, at 11:31:49
Hi everyone,
I've been wary to post in the middle of this debate. I hope some of the anger can ease and we can all get back to supporting each other with withdrawal issues.
Just to put in my $0.02, I support anyone who decides it's best for them to take meds or not to take meds, withdraws from one drug to start another, or withdraws from meds altogether. I have a lot of anger about the way we treat MI in this country, but in the meantime we all need to live healthy lives, and we use what works.
So, johnnyj, I hope you won't leave us. I care about you and I hope you'll let us know how you're doing! You along with musky & SLS were so helpful when I was in the early part of my withdrawal. I'm still checking back occasionally and thinking about long-term w/d issues. When I have some time maybe I'll try to do some research and share with y'all.
take care,
jules
Posted by notfred on October 8, 2006, at 5:48:38
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » notfred, posted by SLS on October 7, 2006, at 3:09:53
> That's interesting. People find it easier to withdraw from SRI drugs if they take a short course of a benzodiazepine. With the SRI drugs, I think this has an added advantage of preventing a kindling effect and may shorten the withdrawal time. But that's a personal theory of mine.
>
Hmm, then anticonvulsants might do the same thing. Are there any that are generally well tolerated ?
Posted by SLS on October 8, 2006, at 6:19:58
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by notfred on October 8, 2006, at 5:48:38
> > That's interesting. People find it easier to withdraw from SRI drugs if they take a short course of a benzodiazepine. With the SRI drugs, I think this has an added advantage of preventing a kindling effect and may shorten the withdrawal time. But that's a personal theory of mine.
> >
>
>
> Hmm, then anticonvulsants might do the same thing. Are there any that are generally well tolerated ?
>Now you're on the same page as I am. The idea regarding SRI and benzodiazepine withdrawal, kindling, and the use of anticonvulsants to mitigate withdrawal occurred to me over a year ago. I proposed it here, but it didn't draw much attention. Most people arrive here after it's too late - cold turkey and determined to abstain. I can understand this, though. It is just frustrating to watch. I thought that Depakote might make a good drug because of its pro-GABAergic effects. When I began to look into the idea of kindling as it might pertain to both SRI and benzodiazepine withdrawal, I didn't find anything supporting it. However, there was quite a bit written about it regarding alcohol withdrawal. I haven't looked at it recently, but Depakote was among the drugs chosen.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 8, 2006, at 7:05:07
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by notfred on October 7, 2006, at 11:38:25
Good luck with the allergies and good luck with the new job position. It sounds like you have both covered.
I have to admit that I am envious about your being able to work. It's been over 15 years for me.
:-(
- Scott
Posted by notfred on October 8, 2006, at 10:13:59
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by SLS on October 8, 2006, at 6:19:58
> > > That's interesting. People find it easier to withdraw from SRI drugs if they take a short course of a benzodiazepine. With the SRI drugs, I think this has an added advantage of preventing a kindling effect and may shorten the withdrawal time. But that's a personal theory of mine.
> > >
> >
Gabapentin does not have a black box, despite the hype with it, this would be using it as an AC, what it was meant for. However, this should only be short term treatment, so Dep should not be a problem. I am not to well read up on the AC's.One solution would be taking AC's for a bit as you taper, then taper off the AC. It would not be a perm treatment, just a few weeks. Calm the CNS for a bit so it can get about the task to of readjusting to the lack of an AD.
This could be an effective treatment for folks who have protracted withdrawal problems. Either drug should be tolerated pretty well, so you have 2 choices.
Is it GABA, or other AC effects that control seizure ? Perhaps both ?
Posted by musky on October 9, 2006, at 13:13:46
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » musky, posted by johnnyj on October 7, 2006, at 10:24:34
>JOhnny :
First Of all I am NOT trying to make people feel bad cause they are ON the meds .. I am trying to help people feel better.
I was rx Remeron because I was so out of it on the other meds that were originally to help with anxiety which was caused by the first medication of amytriptylene for my neck problem,. They "said " I was depressed, But I was anxious and depressed because I was dizzy all the time and couldnt function /work . which is understable.. the docs however threw me into the common pot of "chemical imbalance" and thats when I was put on Paxil and THAT is what created a psychosis and THAT is whent they rx Remeron for "so called " anxiety..So you see my experiences are similar to others who keep trying different meds.
If you want to stay on meds that is your choice .. I am just trying to suggest other choices NOT force them on people.. based on this site it looks like others are stuggling with withdrawl..
If we want to accuse anyone of misleading things we better look at the docs and how they just keep rx pills and not solving anything..
Treat the Whole person .. then you have a better chance of treating the depression/anxiety.I am sorry you feel this way,, never meant to create this emotion.
But I wont feel guilty on voicing my opinion.Good luck
and keep trying..Musky
O Musky:
>
> I don't know how in the world you can compare an alcoholic to someone who has depression or other mental issues. I am tired of this anti-med arguement and will not discuss this further as I feel attacked for not doing as well as you.
>
> You even said you were not put on meds for depression so how can you compare to others with these disorders? You withdrawal may be different than us that took remeron for depression/anxiety. You make sweeping generalizations based on your own experiences and deem all meds bad. I just don't understand. I guess you feel this helps your situation but it doesn't help mine. I am out of here as this thread is no longer about withdrawal but just anti-med. Good bye to all that were supportive and good luck in your quest to get healthy.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on October 9, 2006, at 13:15:43
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » musky, posted by johnnyj on October 7, 2006, at 10:24:34
>
and yes an alcoholic is a person who is depressed. That is why they drink ...to escape reality.. cover up the problem which is still there when they sober up.. and to keep the cycle going, alcohol IS a depressant..
muskyusky:
>
> I don't know how in the world you can compare an alcoholic to someone who has depression or other mental issues. I am tired of this anti-med arguement and will not discuss this further as I feel attacked for not doing as well as you.
>
> You even said you were not put on meds for depression so how can you compare to others with these disorders? You withdrawal may be different than us that took remeron for depression/anxiety. You make sweeping generalizations based on your own experiences and deem all meds bad. I just don't understand. I guess you feel this helps your situation but it doesn't help mine. I am out of here as this thread is no longer about withdrawal but just anti-med. Good bye to all that were supportive and good luck in your quest to get healthy.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on October 9, 2006, at 13:24:16
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by jules354 on October 7, 2006, at 11:53:27
Hey jules:
Yes you are right,,we get into debate from time to time.. it is very frustrating to me to see so many people caught up in this med soup.. anyways I am glad you are doing ok.. I was glad you could benefit from at least some of my tips.
I dont know why people are angry at me, cause I am still remeron free.. I am fighting like anyone else and have realized that other ways are just as effective,, thats all. dont know why others wont try these ways.. yet they will try meds just like that.. hmmm
anyways hope you do well.
I always liked your attitude.. peacefullmusky
everyone,
>
> I've been wary to post in the middle of this debate. I hope some of the anger can ease and we can all get back to supporting each other with withdrawal issues.
>
> Just to put in my $0.02, I support anyone who decides it's best for them to take meds or not to take meds, withdraws from one drug to start another, or withdraws from meds altogether. I have a lot of anger about the way we treat MI in this country, but in the meantime we all need to live healthy lives, and we use what works.
>
> So, johnnyj, I hope you won't leave us. I care about you and I hope you'll let us know how you're doing! You along with musky & SLS were so helpful when I was in the early part of my withdrawal. I'm still checking back occasionally and thinking about long-term w/d issues. When I have some time maybe I'll try to do some research and share with y'all.
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by musky on October 9, 2006, at 13:29:42
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by notfred on October 8, 2006, at 10:13:59
> > >
I am puzzled by these postings... I am criticized for being anti med or whatever.. and am told I am not consistent with the theme of the board .. which is withdrawl.. YET i seem to always see discussions about using one med to combat another and another..
so how can this be a withdrawl support board????
Like I said before my understanding of withdrawl is just that WITHDRAWL from a medication.. tapering, cutting back,, getting it OUT of the system not putting it back in..So this isnt making any sense to me right now
Good luck to allMusky
> That's interesting. People find it easier to withdraw from SRI drugs if they take a short course of a benzodiazepine. With the SRI drugs, I think this has an added advantage of preventing a kindling effect and may shorten the withdrawal time. But that's a personal theory of mine.
> > > >
> > >
>
>
> Gabapentin does not have a black box, despite the hype with it, this would be using it as an AC, what it was meant for. However, this should only be short term treatment, so Dep should not be a problem. I am not to well read up on the AC's.
>
> One solution would be taking AC's for a bit as you taper, then taper off the AC. It would not be a perm treatment, just a few weeks. Calm the CNS for a bit so it can get about the task to of readjusting to the lack of an AD.
>
> This could be an effective treatment for folks who have protracted withdrawal problems. Either drug should be tolerated pretty well, so you have 2 choices.
>
> Is it GABA, or other AC effects that control seizure ? Perhaps both ?
>
Posted by SLS on October 9, 2006, at 16:24:34
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by musky on October 9, 2006, at 13:29:42
> I am puzzled by these postings...
> and am told I am not consistent with the theme of the board ..
> so how can this be a withdrawl support board????
> So this isnt making any sense to me right nowhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20060809/msgs/691449.html
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 9, 2006, at 17:25:59
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » musky, posted by SLS on October 9, 2006, at 16:24:34
> > I am puzzled by these postings...
>
> > and am told I am not consistent with the theme of the board ..
>
> > so how can this be a withdrawl support board????
>
> > So this isnt making any sense to me right now
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20060809/msgs/691449.html
As far as restarting medication is concerned.Another thing to consider is that what some people experience as depression after discontinuing medication is a relapse of the illness rather than a part of a discontinuation syndrome. I guess you have to watch for the trend. The following just popped into my head, so they are not scientific:
1. If the depression occurs immediately as the drug is discontinued, it could be either withdrawal or relapse. If it gets better over 2 weeks, then it is withdrawal. If it remains the same, it could be either. If it gets worse, it could be either. However, if after 4-6 weeks it gets worse, it is probably relapse. If it remains the same, it could be either. If the other withdrawal symptoms have disappeared, it might be relapse. If beyond 8 weeks with no other withdrawal symptoms, it is probably relapse. If beyond 12 weeks, it is relapse.
2. If the depression occurs more than 4-6 weeks after the drug is discontinued it is probably relapse. If it gets worse over the next 2-4 weeks is relapse.
Unfortunately, depression and bipolar disorder can be recurring illnesses. For those cases with a recurrent course, relapses are most likely to occur within 4 months of discontinuing medication. This usually indicates long-term management.
- Scott
Posted by jules354 on October 9, 2006, at 21:09:58
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by SLS on October 9, 2006, at 17:25:59
Just curious, how did you arrive at the weeks calculations - are they based on the avg. time it takes for a med to kick in and then the half-life, which affects how long it should take to quit your system?
take care,
jules
Posted by SLS on October 9, 2006, at 23:32:57
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » SLS, posted by jules354 on October 9, 2006, at 21:09:58
> Just curious, how did you arrive at the weeks calculations - are they based on the avg. time it takes for a med to kick in and then the half-life, which affects how long it should take to quit your system?
That stuff was just off the top of my head and was based loosely on the time it takes for receptors to turn over (2-3 weeks) and the fact that most antidepressants effectively clear the body within a week (5 half-lives). The only exception is Prozac, which takes as long as 5 weeks to clear the body. I was being pretty liberal with the lengths of time I allowed for depression to appear or disappear, so it might not make sense to make special adjustments for Prozac. These are barely-educated guesses, nothing more. An empirical study of such a thing would be possible, but would take many patients to accomplish.Generalizations:
1. All withdrawal depressions begin proximal to the discontinuation of medication.
2. All depressions beginning latent to the discontinuation of medication are relapses or the development of new conditions.
3. Depressions beginning proximal to the discontinuation of medication can be either withdrawal or relapse. However, a worsening course indicates relapse.
- Scott
Posted by musky on October 11, 2006, at 0:11:42
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by SLS on October 9, 2006, at 17:25:59
>
> sorry dont agree... withdrawl can go up and down and the body cycles so you can get good periods after the initial withdrawl and then a down time even after having a few weeks of good time..
Im told this by an acupuncturist who specializes in withdrawl management from rx drugs, smoking, and cocaine addicts.. also I had talked to a pharmacologist on this very topic ,, again a knowledgeable person in the metabolism of drugs and they confirmed this to me.. they said the body just doesnt start to make the chemical all at once after getting off a med that interfered with the process.
and again the body is a system that cycles continuously and involves many factors which will contribute to emotions as well.
My cognitive therapist had also discussed the fact that alot of times peoples depression/anxiety returns is that they havent changed the way they think so they just restart the cycle again. This again has alot of supportive evidence to this fact.
Dr. David Burns( author of "Feeling Good Handbook") goes into detail more on this topic of relapse and again says alot of it is Cognitive and most patients benefit by just doing a tune up of cognitive behavoral therapy and they get back on track ...
Musky
> As far as restarting medication is concerned.
>
> Another thing to consider is that what some people experience as depression after discontinuing medication is a relapse of the illness rather than a part of a discontinuation syndrome. I guess you have to watch for the trend. The following just popped into my head, so they are not scientific:
>
> 1. If the depression occurs immediately as the drug is discontinued, it could be either withdrawal or relapse. If it gets better over 2 weeks, then it is withdrawal. If it remains the same, it could be either. If it gets worse, it could be either. However, if after 4-6 weeks it gets worse, it is probably relapse. If it remains the same, it could be either. If the other withdrawal symptoms have disappeared, it might be relapse. If beyond 8 weeks with no other withdrawal symptoms, it is probably relapse. If beyond 12 weeks, it is relapse.
>
> 2. If the depression occurs more than 4-6 weeks after the drug is discontinued it is probably relapse. If it gets worse over the next 2-4 weeks is relapse.
>
> Unfortunately, depression and bipolar disorder can be recurring illnesses. For those cases with a recurrent course, relapses are most likely to occur within 4 months of discontinuing medication. This usually indicates long-term management.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by musky on October 11, 2006, at 0:28:17
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron » jules354, posted by SLS on October 9, 2006, at 23:32:57
> >My understanding is this:
Depressive moods as well as anxiety are very much part of the withdrawl cycle.
The body doesnt start making the receptors right away..
this would explain that at first you may feel not too bad, then after the drug is out of the system , then the body operates on low numbers of receptors for awhile.. where you get the latent depression is when the body realizes it needs to make these receptors again , but doesnt quite have all the machinery in place yet(since the drug suppressed this).
When the body finally makes the machinery, you get your weeks where you will feel better,but again it takes time for the machinery to be in place and stay in place.. hence the up and down moods.
mood stability will occur when the body is in balance and again many factors affect the receptors being able to function again..good diet, proper sleep, exercise all play an important role in restoring this balance. even hormones and stress levels will have a dramatic effect.
Sure there is depression /anxiety but again. its all about management in a good healthy way until the body gets back into balance on its own.
pretty much everytime Im having a down time, i can trace it back to a ThOUGHT , sleep habit, stress level, or life event/situation/attitude, or in my case these days just balancing out from the Remeron..
We all have ups and downs and just need to be aware of what is UP and what is really down.. If the down lasts more than 2 weeks they say it is depression.. but of course this is a natural state if it is indeed warranted(ie. death of a loved one, financial stress, health issues).
So what do we do about it?? we manage it safely and get at the ROOT, the triggers.. not the belief that we are slipping,, that creates more anxiety..
but again Im not going to debate the obvious..JUst ride out the storm,, it passes.. even if it takes months, just stay on track and dont loose focus..
Musky
Just curious, how did you arrive at the weeks calculations - are they based on the avg. time it takes for a med to kick in and then the half-life, which affects how long it should take to quit your system?
>
>
> That stuff was just off the top of my head and was based loosely on the time it takes for receptors to turn over (2-3 weeks) and the fact that most antidepressants effectively clear the body within a week (5 half-lives). The only exception is Prozac, which takes as long as 5 weeks to clear the body. I was being pretty liberal with the lengths of time I allowed for depression to appear or disappear, so it might not make sense to make special adjustments for Prozac. These are barely-educated guesses, nothing more. An empirical study of such a thing would be possible, but would take many patients to accomplish.
>
> Generalizations:
>
> 1. All withdrawal depressions begin proximal to the discontinuation of medication.
>
> 2. All depressions beginning latent to the discontinuation of medication are relapses or the development of new conditions.
>
> 3. Depressions beginning proximal to the discontinuation of medication can be either withdrawal or relapse. However, a worsening course indicates relapse.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on October 11, 2006, at 7:16:51
In reply to Re: OFF Remeron, posted by musky on October 11, 2006, at 0:11:42
For people who have withdrawn from withdrawn from Remeron:
1. Did you experience significant depression?
2. When did it start relative to your discontinuing the medication?
3. Did it get worse over the first 4 weeks?
4. Did it get worse or better after the first 4 weeks?
5. How many weeks did it last?
The average half life of Remeron is about 30 hours. Most of it should clear the body in about a week. I don't doubt that somatic withdrawal symptoms appear by that time. Noepinephrine levels should probably ebb by two weeks, and I would think that any withdrawal depression should begin to surface by then. I can't say for sure, though, because I never was on Remeron long enough to experience a withdrawal syndrome for myself. I would like to hear from others who came off of Remeron when their withdrawal depressions started and what course they took. I think this stuff really has to be evaluated empirically.
- Scott
Posted by xbunny on October 11, 2006, at 9:57:15
In reply to OFF Remeron - For people who have withdrawan, posted by SLS on October 11, 2006, at 7:16:51
> For people who have withdrawn from withdrawn from Remeron:
>
> 1. Did you experience significant depression?no, the withdrawl effects I got from mirtazapine were itching and an increase in anxiety. The itching lasted about a month but was most prominent for the first few days reaching a peak at day two or three, it then declined in a roughly exponential curve. I took 30mg oral dispersable for about 2 years I think and stopped without any taper.
Bunny
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