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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crazychickuk on March 8, 2005, at 18:05:49
I stopped remeron / mirtazipine after nearly 2 yrs dead august last yr cus i couldnt tolerate the new soltab version made me halucinate WAS SCARY
anyway started with hallusinating bad dreams from the soltab, stopped right away cold turkey and suffered mentally ever since.. even wat 7 mnths later im depressed, confused, fogged, mentally feel ill..
now my physc has advised me to not go on any more meds cus i had bad expereiences with the others before remeron .. and he thinks i will be better of without them and just go into therapy ..
HE SAID meds leave system 100% no more then 6 weeks later
WAT ABOUT DAMAGE ?
im suffering badly
wats happened?
Posted by JACJ on March 8, 2005, at 21:36:40
In reply to HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds, posted by crazychickuk on March 8, 2005, at 18:05:49
Let me tell you that our central nervous system does not heal in a linear fashion and healing can take months if not years. There is alot of info on w/d and how long it may last. Your doctor is full of it, IMO. I am just now starting to feel good after a year of a benzo and AP. It takes the brain time to readjust and you will feel worse before feeling better. I hope you find healing soon. Let me know if I can be anymore help. I have tons of literature on w/d.
Posted by JACJ on March 8, 2005, at 21:43:04
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds, posted by JACJ on March 8, 2005, at 21:36:40
Let me just say that not everyone will experience a protracted w/d. It varies from person to person and how much and how long one was on drugs. Here are some sites that may help you.
www.drugawareness.org/home.html
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2005, at 22:27:13
In reply to HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds, posted by crazychickuk on March 8, 2005, at 18:05:49
Hi CC.
> I stopped remeron / mirtazipine after nearly 2 yrs
> mnths later im depressed, confused, fogged, mentally feel ill..
I believe all of these things are symptoms of a biological disorder. Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) is often the expression of such a disorder. In other words, these things might be the depression having returned after its successful treatment by the original formulation of mirtazapine that you responded well to. They are reported quite often as symptoms. It is, however, possible that you have been treating the wrong illness. You might want to have a neurological assessment and perhaps move in other directions.Are you bipolar? How do you know?
> now my physc has advised me to not go on any more meds cus i had bad expereiences with the others before remeron .. and he thinks i will be better of without them and just go into therapy ..
You have to decide whether or not to completely forgo biological treatment and use psychotherapy exclusively. A dietary or nutritional supplement focus might also be helpful. If, after some period of time you find these approaches inadequate, you might return to aggressive pharmacological treatment, but I would keep the psychotherapy. The two often work together better than either one alone.
> HE SAID meds leave system 100% no more then 6 weeks laterThis is true. Maybe we could say 99%. The half-life of Remeron ranges between 20-40 hours. Most of it is gone within a week or two. There is no medical precedent otherwise for this drug's pharmacokinetics.
> WAT ABOUT DAMAGE ?
You will probably encounter some debate about whether or not any psychotropic medication can cause "damage". However, I think many of the drugs leave long-lasting changes in the rate of gene expression when exposed to the same drug over and over. However, this is not true damage, and these drugs are not neurotoxic. Nerves are left physically intact and usually functioning normally. The older "typical" antipsychotics, while not neurotoxic, can cause virtually irreversible movement disorders after long-term use. I believe all of what is known about Remeron and the other drugs used as antidepressants is that they do not cause brain damage. This should be one less thing for you to ruminate over.
- Scott
Posted by bruin on March 9, 2005, at 9:03:50
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds » crazychickuk, posted by SLS on March 8, 2005, at 22:27:13
"I believe all of these things are symptoms of a biological disorder. Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) is often the expression of such a disorder. In other words, these things might be the depression having returned after its successful treatment by the original formulation of mirtazapine that you responded well to."
I don't. I believe they are all symptoms of withdrawal. WHether you want to call it withdrawal or not is not important. WHat is important is that you realize this is all very normal for people who come off these powerful drugs that alter your brain chemistry. At the bottom I will again include a list of withdrawal symptoms.
"You have to decide whether or not to completely forgo biological treatment and use psychotherapy exclusively. A dietary or nutritional supplement focus might also be helpful. If, after some period of time you find these approaches inadequate, you might return to aggressive pharmacological treatment, but I would keep the psychotherapy. The two often work together better than either one alone."
More than that. I complete lifestyle change. A supplement here and there won't change things. To fully heal from these drugs which HAVE damaged your brain you will need to focus on four things:proper nutrition, exercise, a proper supplement regimen, and faith.
"HE SAID meds leave system 100% no more then 6 weeks later"
It isn't about that. It is about what these drugs did to your central nervous system and how long it takes to heal. Yes, heal. I have seen those exact symptoms you described above thousands of times. SOme people get over them quickly, some take months or years. It all depends on how committed you are to total foundational health. It is not a return of some major depressive disorder. THat is big pharma propoganda induced nonsense.
> Hi CC.
>
> > I stopped remeron / mirtazipine after nearly 2 yrs
>
> > mnths later im depressed, confused, fogged, mentally feel ill..
>
> I believe all of these things are symptoms of a biological disorder. Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) is often the expression of such a disorder. In other words, these things might be the depression having returned after its successful treatment by the original formulation of mirtazapine that you responded well to. They are reported quite often as symptoms. It is, however, possible that you have been treating the wrong illness. You might want to have a neurological assessment and perhaps move in other directions.
>
> Are you bipolar? How do you know?
>
> > now my physc has advised me to not go on any more meds cus i had bad expereiences with the others before remeron .. and he thinks i will be better of without them and just go into therapy ..
>
> You have to decide whether or not to completely forgo biological treatment and use psychotherapy exclusively. A dietary or nutritional supplement focus might also be helpful. If, after some period of time you find these approaches inadequate, you might return to aggressive pharmacological treatment, but I would keep the psychotherapy. The two often work together better than either one alone.
>
> > HE SAID meds leave system 100% no more then 6 weeks later
>
> This is true. Maybe we could say 99%. The half-life of Remeron ranges between 20-40 hours. Most of it is gone within a week or two. There is no medical precedent otherwise for this drug's pharmacokinetics.
>
> > WAT ABOUT DAMAGE ?
>
> You will probably encounter some debate about whether or not any psychotropic medication can cause "damage". However, I think many of the drugs leave long-lasting changes in the rate of gene expression when exposed to the same drug over and over. However, this is not true damage, and these drugs are not neurotoxic. Nerves are left physically intact and usually functioning normally. The older "typical" antipsychotics, while not neurotoxic, can cause virtually irreversible movement disorders after long-term use. I believe all of what is known about Remeron and the other drugs used as antidepressants is that they do not cause brain damage. This should be one less thing for you to ruminate over.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by bruin on March 9, 2005, at 9:04:45
In reply to HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds, posted by crazychickuk on March 8, 2005, at 18:05:49
Some Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms
Mind racing and unable to control thoughts and processes of the mind.
Panic attacks worsening.
Hot surges running through body.
Horrible nightmares.
Obsessive thoughts. (Going to lose it and kill somebody)
Just can't seem to feel any more.
Feeling like a zombie. Absolutely emotionless.
Physically numb. Could not even feel the water hit my body in the shower.
Lost all taste of food.
Severe dizziness. Felt like going to pass out or lose control.
Sleeping with light on because of the fear.
Feel disconnected. Really drugged out most of the time.
Heart palpitations and tightness in the head.
Flashes of memories and images from the past. (Uncontrollable)
Drugs have taken personal identity away, made feel unable to function like a normal human being.
Completely lost grip and hate to go out and be around people. Don't even feel comfortable with family.
Feeling like it will never end.
Feeling foggy and drugged out.
Urge to jump out of a fast moving car.
Feeling like I need to take life to end all of this.
Extreme head pain.
More depressed than before starting SSRI's.
Not sure will ever be your old self again.
A feeling of unreality.
Convinced of having some rare and fatal disease.
Hormones go completely wild during menstruation. (Never happened before SSRI usage)
fatigue and problem in hands (predominantly left)
which has become less tremors, more pain and slight stiffness and is
spreading up (left) arm and into shoulder.
Head and body seem to feel detached from each other.
Feeling like "in Hell." Can't go to see doctor or to the hospital because I am afraid they will prescribe more medication or put me in the mental ward.
Bleeding from the nose, heavily.
Nausea
Feeling like electrical current is running up and down spine
Memory loss with apathy
In a fog, can't concentrate
Nipple discharge
Loss of sex drive
Manic/depressive episodes
Weight gain of over 40 pounds
(List of side effects from one individual since starting SSRI's) Mind racing, nightmares, obsessive thoughts, can't "feel" anymore, zombie, disconnected, memory flashes, hate to be around people, feeling like it will never end, foggy, urge to jump out of fast moving car, more depressed, not sure will ever be old self again, feeling of unreality, numbness in pinky and ring finger on left hand and sever chills.
Head jerking and muscle spasms
Numbness in genitals
Memory loss
Loss of sexual drive
Swelled penis
Sudden and excessive weight gain
Hating people, do not want to be around people anymore
Tremors, sudden jerky movements of muscles, extreme sensitivity to sound
Out of control, divorced husband that was loved and now can't even explain why. Hopeless
Suicidal
Inner restlessness
Can't focus, hard to read words
Worsening of acne
Falling asleep at random times and not even remembering it (people telling the person this is happening)
Can hardly stand to look at anything anymore
Severe hot flashes while asleep
Difficult having an orgasm
Very aggressive dreams, dream of having battles with people from past
Severe mood changes, tremors in hands more hyperactive
Heavy sweating and electrical shocks that seem to come from within the side of the head
Milky discharge from nipples and very hot flashes and sweating while asleep
Can't seeeee comptur skrenn clearrlyyyy
Breast are getting larger, nipples harder and sticking out about 1" and swelling
Awake several nights of the week all night and have gained 30 pounds in less than one year
Urge to drink excessively, never had this problem before. Feel like in pure hell, manic one moment, deeply depressed the next, severe headaches, sweating, nightmares, panic and fear
Feet stay cold and can't seem to get them warm
Have not had sex for over one year since starting Prozac
Need for increased dose for same symptom, depression and severe cleaning compulsion are back and already at 100 mg daily of Prozac
I quit, doing crazy things. On the way to work stopped and got a tattoo. Hate tattoos!
Sleepy all of the time
Dramatic weight loss
Manic depression, numbness of body, tremors, racing thoughts, hot flashes, hallucinations, voices and echoes
Excessive or "fake" happiness-not able to feel "normal" sadness or cry at all
Feeling like an incomplete person without sexual feelings
Feel like going to stop breathing
Cold for hours after jogging
Extremely paranoid, feeling like someone is standing outside of the shower with a knife-ready to kill me, constantly looking over my shoulder all of the time and jumping at every noise
Muscle and joint pains
Strange and vivid dreams with erratic sleep patterns
Nightmares, flashbacks, severe night sweats and feel sense of unrest
No emotion and brain twitches
Felt like on a come down from acid for the whole time taking SSRI, saw tracers (shadows when things were moving) could not sleep, felt suicidal and more depressed than before
Itchy, rashes on inside of legs, knees, under arms and back, hot sweats and flushes, very depressed, being very rude and short tempered
Severe mood swings, angry most of the time and violent
Lost everything
Lost job
dizziness and low blood sugar
Just don't care anymore
Flash anger, verbal aggression and uncontrolled bouts of swearing
Pain in the lower left hand side of the stomach
Sleeping A LOT (13 hours a night)
Self mutilation
Cutting self
Tongue pain at night
Ears ring all the time since (tinnitus)
Total inability to have an orgasm (female)
Breathing Difficulty
Uncontrollable bouts of anger during which I can't even talk to anyone- totally overreacting to different situations.
Delayed sleep pattern, 1 hour later each day, turning the clock around during one year
Craving for sugar or protein or vitamin c
Changing my mind every minute, completely paranoid
Completely paralyzed by not knowing what to do or where I was going or what I can do when I feel like this
Delayed ejaculation and subtle loss of genital sensitivity--still persists 3 years after finishing medication
Annoying dizzy spells that have intensified the longer I have been off of Paxil
Alzheimer's Condition dramatically accelerated
Hot flashes and profuse sweating
Lethargic
After two days, woke up with left hand and arm numb, feel disconnected, headachy and anxious
Heard noises that weren't real: electronic humming/buzzing, doorbells, and voices. Would look for source, but find nothing. Sometimes, just moving my head would make the noises change or go away.
TONGUE FEELS LIKE IT HAS BEEN STUCK IN AN ELECTRICAL OUTLET
Severe constipation even Metamucil is not working feeling real bloated and starting to get depressed
> I stopped remeron / mirtazipine after nearly 2 yrs dead august last yr cus i couldnt tolerate the new soltab version made me halucinate WAS SCARY
>
> anyway started with hallusinating bad dreams from the soltab, stopped right away cold turkey and suffered mentally ever since.. even wat 7 mnths later im depressed, confused, fogged, mentally feel ill..
>
> now my physc has advised me to not go on any more meds cus i had bad expereiences with the others before remeron .. and he thinks i will be better of without them and just go into therapy ..
>
> HE SAID meds leave system 100% no more then 6 weeks later
>
> WAT ABOUT DAMAGE ?
>
> im suffering badly
>
> wats happened?
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 12:50:47
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds, posted by bruin on March 9, 2005, at 9:03:50
Hello,
>To fully heal from these drugs which HAVE damaged your brain.
I think it often counterproductive to tell people that their brain has been damaged- it can cause a lot of anxiety.
I've suffered withdrawal symptoms from a few drugs, notably Effexor, but I recovered from the withdrawal in time. I do not think my brain was damaged, I think it just needed time to adapt to 'life' without medication.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by bruin on March 10, 2005, at 1:20:34
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds » bruin, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 12:50:47
Perhaps you're right. Nonetheless, I know when I was vainly searching for answers during my withdrawal it took the help of a few people willing to confront a few truths and the most important was to operate from the perspective that I needed to heal. Healing is what I did and what I continue to do. I do know plenty of people who have been brain damaged from these drugs(including myself) and while it may cause anxiety, I personally think the best way to properly recover is to understand the truth about these medications and their peddlers and then gather an understanding about what is the best way to undertake the recovery process. Operating under the misguided assumption that the brainwashed doctors do that these medications are benign and nonaddictive will shield you from fully seeking a complete recovery. However, this is only my opinion and anyone is free to tell me to jump off a bridge. Take care
> Hello,
>
> >To fully heal from these drugs which HAVE damaged your brain.
>
> I think it often counterproductive to tell people that their brain has been damaged- it can cause a lot of anxiety.
>
> I've suffered withdrawal symptoms from a few drugs, notably Effexor, but I recovered from the withdrawal in time. I do not think my brain was damaged, I think it just needed time to adapt to 'life' without medication.
>
> Regards,
> Ed.
Posted by crazychickuk on March 10, 2005, at 2:50:58
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds, posted by bruin on March 9, 2005, at 9:04:45
bless you bruin alot of whats you menetioned is what i am suffering from now 7 mnths down the line.. how long will this go for ?
i think 50% of those taking a'ds will experience this when stopped..
am seeing a private physcologist today who seems nice will update ..
xx
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 10:43:02
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping meds, posted by bruin on March 10, 2005, at 1:20:34
Hello,
>Nonetheless, I know when I was vainly searching for answers during my withdrawal it took the help of a few people willing to confront a few truths.
Yes, it's a shame more information isn't available from doctors. I once mentioned to my GP that I believed that withdrawal symptoms were very common when stopping Effexor, but he told me that such symptoms were very rare.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 10:44:15
In reply to Re: HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED THIS after stopping me, posted by crazychickuk on March 10, 2005, at 2:50:58
Hi Donna!
I Hope all goes well with the psychologist :-)
Best regards,
Ed.
Posted by chisa on March 24, 2005, at 12:23:34
In reply to Re: ^^^^^ above meant for Pleasehelp » pleasehelp, posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 7:23:02
i have been throught the wringer recently. including thinking i was an alcoholic. all this has been caused by mirtazapine. i have stopped for about a week and have had (to me) the worst time ever. anxiety, cold/hot spells, insomnia, painful legs and joints, locking myself away in my room, afraid of evrything.
the problem is that i wasn't getting better so decided to retake the mirtazapine so i could come off it more slowly the next time. however, it takes about 5 days for the drug to get backinto the system and remove some of the withdrawal effects so i am just about getting better (started taking it again on sunday, it is now thursday).
as for this is the symptoms returning - this is totally incorrect. i never felt like this when i wasn't taking the drug.
i feel that some day soon maybe the drugs companies are gonna be bankrupted by massive compensation claims, if the governments allow that - my guess is that they won't.
Posted by chisa on March 24, 2005, at 19:01:17
In reply to Re: ^^^^^ above meant for Pleasehelp, posted by chisa on March 24, 2005, at 12:23:34
i also wanna add that upping the dose (from 15 to 30mlgs) also made me more nervous.
Posted by violetskyye on April 27, 2005, at 23:59:33
In reply to mirtazapine, posted by chisa on March 24, 2005, at 19:01:17
I thought I was the only one having hot/cold sweats and anxiety going off Mirtazapine. I actually started re-taking it, but forgot how goofy it made me initially feel, and after 2 weeks off, took too high a dose the first night. Really knocked me out.
I got very anxious about a week after I completely stopped taking it, and the anxiety got better my first day back on. In my case, though, I think I had the anxiety before going on it, and had forgotten how much it helped till I tried to go off.
Anyway, I feel like I copped out by going back on it so soon, because I'll never know if the extreme anxiety; hot and cold spells were just temporary and would have abated if I stayed off for longer. I felt so rotten, though, I couldn't continue the experiment any longer.
This is the end of the thread.
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