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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 44. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SatinDoll on October 21, 2006, at 9:06:05
I am in Psych class in school where we are learning about drug addiction and today we talked about LSD. I am 38 and only have tried pot a couple of times in my early 20's .
But the way he discribed the high, it makes me very curious about LSD, it sounds like fun. We were told of all the drugs this is one of the least chance of addiction. I don't know why I would like to try it, other than it sounds like fun. Would it hurt to try it once in the safety of my own home? Or should I just remain very vanilla and innocent? LOL
Posted by SatinDoll on October 22, 2006, at 14:59:24
In reply to LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by SatinDoll on October 21, 2006, at 9:06:05
okay maybe YOU haven't even tried it, but what happened when your friends did ? LOL
Don't worry I would probably be too big of a chicken to even try it even if I had a chance to. I am nuts enough already.
Posted by Declan on October 22, 2006, at 18:42:48
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by SatinDoll on October 22, 2006, at 14:59:24
OK, I'll have a go. LSD takes you to a place that is a bit like this, if all goes well....
At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.
I can only say, there we have been: but I cannot say where.
And I cannot say, how long, for that is to place it in time.
The inner freedom from the practical desire,
The release from action and suffering, release from the inner
And the outer compulsion, yet surrounded
By a grace of sense, a white light still and moving,
Erhebung without motion, concentration
Without elimination, both a new world
And the old made explicit, understood
In the completion of its partial ecstasy,
The resolution of its partial horror.
Yet the enchainment of past and future
Woven in the weakness of the changing body,
Protects mankind from heaven and damnation
Which flesh cannot endure. (Eliot, Burnt Norton)Especially the last 4 lines.
So it's heaven and hell. Some people are different though and take it and go to the races.
Posted by Declan on October 22, 2006, at 18:47:38
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you? » SatinDoll, posted by Declan on October 22, 2006, at 18:42:48
If they take enough they end up in the psych ward reading the Bible.
After that they normally become classic nonbullshitters and become fencing contractors.
Posted by SatinDoll on October 22, 2006, at 19:06:04
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you? » Declan, posted by Declan on October 22, 2006, at 18:47:38
Thanks Declan,
I think I understand, LOL I always wanted to become a fence contractor and my friends have told me I needed to find Jesus! LOL
So it feels kinda scrary then? Like a frightened dream? I was think the halluciations would be cool, but if it is frightening, I will stay in my vanilla world.
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:26:20
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you? » Declan, posted by Declan on October 22, 2006, at 18:47:38
Declan I think you're right that's what I've seen or street people. Love Phillipa. Of course the street may be their choice no bills.
Posted by laima on October 24, 2006, at 1:20:24
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you? » Declan, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2006, at 22:26:20
I tried this a few times in college, and everyone agreed- it had a tendency to somehow amplify what was already in your mind- so watch it. Amplied EVERYTHING, from sounds to color, to feelings. So many sensory experiences rushing in, you realize later how fortunate our normal brains do such a good job of filtering the world for us. It can be overwhelming. Good mood? Wonder! Hillarious! Astonishing!!! BEAUTIFUL. Anxiety? Hell, sheer terror. Ie, an angry dog once shook a lovely, mystical starry night into feeling like Cujo was after us. I'd never forget the viscious snarling- of what was probably a benign watchdog. See someone you don't like? Horror beyond description. A friendly kitty on the sidewalk? The most wondrous encounter you ever had in your life!!!! You may be very uncoordinated, unable to even get up off the ground or master a task like buttering a piece of toast. And you'er stuck HIGHLY altered- for a good 20 hours, minimum. Not a drug to mess with lightly. I'm personally not planning to use it ever again. It's also really toxic and rough on your entire system- several days to recooperate from a single trip, with mild ripples sometimes lasting that long. Even nausea during early hours after dosing. I am very skeptical that a single or even handful of uses would damage you, but it's known that heavy, chronic users do often suffer damage.
Posted by laima on October 24, 2006, at 8:24:00
In reply to LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by SatinDoll on October 21, 2006, at 9:06:05
We want accuracy here with information. I realize I said LSD will leave you highly altered for a good 20 hours- make that more like 12-14, but the residuals will still very faintly linger the next day or two. And very difficult to fall aleep afterwards.
And I'd add that staying at home wouldn't likely be "vanilla" in my opinion- NOTHING would be. Your mind, what's in your mind comes out full force. You'd likely be eager to get outside and look around, anyway.
And no full-fledged hallucinations with LSD- more like enhancement of whatever is already there, often based upon your own mind's likes and dislikes, expectations, etc. Ie- clerk at the shop I was reluctant to enter in the first place? I couldn't stop staring, for he looked like a pig in the face- even though I could simultaneously see he didn't.
I heard someone describe seeing full blown hallucionations using PCP- which I never tried, never cared to. Ie, he claimed, "Oh I just avoid the elephants that charge up and down the street..." NEVER could I imagine anything remotely like happening with LSD. And that kid was messed-up big time, all the time.
Posted by AuntieMel on October 24, 2006, at 16:05:47
In reply to LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by SatinDoll on October 21, 2006, at 9:06:05
Yes I did, and yes I had full blown hallucinations.
I was very lucky. I was with a group of friends who *didn't* partake. They followed me around to be sure I didn't get hurt.
It scared the bejaggers out of me.
So - home is *not* safe. If you are tripping you aren't likely to stay there.
Posted by Declan on October 24, 2006, at 23:03:57
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by AuntieMel on October 24, 2006, at 16:05:47
You know how seconds before rain there is a silence and everything stops? That's the start. An uncanny stillness, with a yawny feeling. Then, over time, the visual field flattens and the patterns start. There are no hallucinations as such, but the patterning (which has been much reproduced and would be familiar to you) becomes progressivey more intense. The odd thing is that this does not feel like something you are watching exactly. More like the normal distinction between subject (you) and object (everything else) is rendered obsolete. At the time this makes perfect intuitive sense and you might (I did) feel that you have been given a glimpse of a great secret. In short you are given a chemically induced religious vision. You become extremely concious of the different aspects of your feeling and motivation. It's a very interesting drug, and reasonably dangerous, and the danger is dose related.
Hope that helps. It must sound like I take it every day, but I don't think I've had any for 30 years.
Declan
Posted by dbc on October 25, 2006, at 10:32:44
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by Declan on October 24, 2006, at 23:03:57
Theres stuff out there that makes LSD look like budweiser, its not the end all of psychedelic drugs. Then again i doubt you're ever going to meet a recreational DMT user so i guess to people not in the know LSD seems like a big deal.
Not that it should be taken lightly because it shouldnt its just not all that its cracked up to be. Some of the new research chemicals will give you a definite understanding of what "oblivion" really means.
Posted by laima on October 25, 2006, at 10:58:11
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 25, 2006, at 10:32:44
Perhaps it's also important to remember that street drugs are not regulated, and you can't always be sure what you are getting into unless all your friends already tested the batch out: quality, potency- even if it's "pure". (And where are the ethics in that??)
I understand lots of drugs, for example, are "enhanced' with PCP, formeldehyde, speed, and other substances. This, naturally, is a huge, but not only, part of the risks and dangers involved.
Posted by dbc on October 25, 2006, at 11:20:00
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by laima on October 25, 2006, at 10:58:11
As much as i respect the spirit of this board and definetly do not want to give the impression that im promoting drug use.
When someone buys LSD its either a piece of paper or its LSD. Theres no psychedelic substance known to man that can have substantial effects in microgram sized doses besides LSD.
Posted by laima on October 25, 2006, at 19:25:15
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 25, 2006, at 11:20:00
It can still be lsd with something else added to it, and whoever cooked it up in the lab might be making each batch a little differently-sloppiness, whatever. It's NOT all the same. I recall even those pieces of paper were not all the same size. With all these illegal drugs- you are at mercy of someone cooking it up at their personal lab, unsupervised.
> As much as i respect the spirit of this board and definetly do not want to give the impression that im promoting drug use.
>
> When someone buys LSD its either a piece of paper or its LSD. Theres no psychedelic substance known to man that can have substantial effects in microgram sized doses besides LSD.
Posted by laima on October 25, 2006, at 19:38:30
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 25, 2006, at 11:20:00
I haven't touched this stuff for about 20 years- but almost have a hazy memory of people warning to watch out for LSD laced with the rat-poison, strichnine. Not sure what it was supposed to do...but it did something (?)
>
> When someone buys LSD its either a piece of paper or its LSD. Theres no psychedelic substance known to man that can have substantial effects in microgram sized doses besides LSD.
Posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 7:56:29
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you? » dbc, posted by laima on October 25, 2006, at 19:38:30
The stuffs the holy grail of clandestine drug production. Its not like meth where billy bob down the street at the trailer park can cook up a batch whenever he needs a fix. Besides theres no drugs to my knowledge that affect people on a microgram scale that could be applied to blotter paper. Even with some of the new super potent research chemicals like 2c-i the smallest effective dose would be 15mg, that would take one very large piece of paper.
Posted by laima on October 26, 2006, at 10:25:18
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 7:56:29
?I only ever dabbled, not excatly a super-expert. I did try X once in that same era, and I recall that was on a small piece of paper too. What's up with ther strichnine rumour? And why were some batches of lsd known for different things- some described as "speedy", some described as particularly visual, etc?
> The stuffs the holy grail of clandestine drug production. Its not like meth where billy bob down the street at the trailer park can cook up a batch whenever he needs a fix. Besides theres no drugs to my knowledge that affect people on a microgram scale that could be applied to blotter paper. Even with some of the new super potent research chemicals like 2c-i the smallest effective dose would be 15mg, that would take one very large piece of paper.
Posted by Jost on October 26, 2006, at 12:10:43
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you? » dbc, posted by laima on October 26, 2006, at 10:25:18
I used it a few times a little after college.
Once, it was more of a pure street drug type purchase (I think)-- a friend had gotten it from someone. Might have had a lot of methedrine or other speed in it-- who knows-- I had much more intense and dislocating spacial and other visual distortions-- not altogether pleasant-- and everything swam in and out of consciousness in a rather disconnected, although smooth and incredibly immediate way. I had no real hallucinations, although for a while my image in the mirror seemed to be wavy and very out of kilter.
It did feel as if my perceptions were enhanced, but my sense of space was extreme, but almost only that right in front of my face--everything else kind of eerily withdrew-- I would experience things that seemed to come out at me from the room-- right at my eyes or face- and they were so illuminated or long-drawn-out (especially sounds) that it was hard to locate them, they were so in-close, or drawing away or at a stained almost off-stage distance.
I also got very depressed at the end-- possibly coming down from the speed.
The other times probably it was better, or purer, drug. Those were extremely intense, very beautiful, memorable and meaningful experiences. Everything was drenched in some sort of sublime and almost romantic luminosity-- I can't explain-- and as if there was music in it--
I did have a brief episode of paranoia on the third one-- which is why, among other reasons, I absolutely wouldn't do it again. It was the middle of the night-- and I was convinced that something terrible was about to happen-- and would really have run out into the street-- without any sense of the "reality" of the thing-I was so focussed on my own ideas and inner quality of the truth of my emotions-- and a few immediate things, like being unable to get the door open--- which overwhelmed everything else.
At one point, to give an example, I was with someone I knew (a boyfriend at the time), and I became convinced that he needed water. I'm not sure why-- but we were standing together and I was looking at him, and I thought that he desperately needed it. I tried to hand him a glass of water-- which he didn't want. I kept insisting, that he have it-- and he said no. So, in the conviction that it was of utmost importance for him to get some water-- that he was parched or otherwise would be in danger from the absence of it-- I threw the water into his face. Literally.
He was shocked to say that least. I guess I managed to explain, despite the fact that he was also on LSD.
So things can get very strange, and yet very beautiful. I would definitely only take it if I could utterly depend on the sanity and good sense of the people I was with-- but I never feel that I can-- and wouldn't take it any way, as I can't depend on that in myself either--= another condition.
Jost
Posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 12:31:19
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by Jost on October 26, 2006, at 12:10:43
One of the primary arguments against the premise that differences in LSD experiences are the result of differences in quality of material has come from people i've spoken to who have distributed and aliquoted acid in the past. One such person described how some recipients of his LSD would go on at length about how distinct and how much better one type of blotter was than another. Yet, often, both types had been aliquoted by this chemist on the same day, from the same batch of liquid, onto similar blotter paper bearing different designs.
LSD is very picky and doesnt like changes in environment, negative mental states, etc. Also preconceived notions about the effects of a certain type of LSD could influence the outcome.
Posted by Declan on October 26, 2006, at 15:11:26
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 12:31:19
Even so, once you've had pure acid you don't forget it. There are a lot of different chemicals in "Pikhal" and "Tikhal", some of which have doses low enough to fit in blotters, not to speak of things that wouldn't have made it into Shulgin's books.
Posted by laima on October 26, 2006, at 15:49:59
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 12:31:19
If this is true, I'm genuinely astonished. First question- how many "middle-men"? Could they soak the blotters in anything somewhere along in the distribution cycle? You might say soaking would mess up those stamps- but what of the blotters that were just pastel bits of paper? Or, for that matter- could any of the raw ingredients have been tampered with or adulterated? Second, when I was in college, acid was THE thing on campus. I had a lot of friends, they had a lot of friends...next thing you know, there were hundreds of people networked who would have consensus over "this acid is speedy, this acid is awsome", etc. How could that many people be so collectively suggestable- not even knowing each other- having very different personalities...even consensus AFTER the fact, such as, "oh- that stuff that was around a few months ago was awful, wasn't it"? I just don't get it. And another thing- not once did I ever hear of anyone having a full-blown hallucination then. Not one single report. Nothing more than the "patterning", distortion of objects already there, trailing- that sort of thing. Why then, would Mel have a real hallucination if the common "wisdom" was "PCP gives hallucinations-stay away from it- acid can't and doesn't". Is that true? And please no one quote any govt reports- it's widely known those were falsified. I just don't get it.
How does PCP come- is that also on blotters?
> One of the primary arguments against the premise that differences in LSD experiences are the result of differences in quality of material has come from people i've spoken to who have distributed and aliquoted acid in the past. One such person described how some recipients of his LSD would go on at length about how distinct and how much better one type of blotter was than another. Yet, often, both types had been aliquoted by this chemist on the same day, from the same batch of liquid, onto similar blotter paper bearing different designs.
>
> LSD is very picky and doesnt like changes in environment, negative mental states, etc. Also preconceived notions about the effects of a certain type of LSD could influence the outcome.
>
Posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 16:25:51
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by Declan on October 26, 2006, at 15:11:26
> Even so, once you've had pure acid you don't forget it. There are a lot of different chemicals in "Pikhal" and "Tikhal", some of which have doses low enough to fit in blotters, not to speak of things that wouldn't have made it into Shulgin's books.
Ok, so some extremely exotic research chems may have a dose small enough to fit onto a blotter. But really if its a good enough chemical to pass off as L to begin with i doubt most people are going to cry foul or ever know it wasnt the substance they thought it was. If someone has the knowledge and resources available to them to make these research chems than they probably could make L so it seems like a waste of time.
Being from and growing up in the berkley of the northwest i've seen liquid L and even the crystal stuff, so "pure" isnt that exotic to me.
Posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 17:00:58
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you? » dbc, posted by laima on October 26, 2006, at 15:49:59
> If this is true, I'm genuinely astonished. First question- how many "middle-men"? Could they soak the blotters in anything somewhere along in the distribution cycle? You might say soaking would mess up those stamps- but what of the blotters that were just pastel bits of paper? Or, for that matter- could any of the raw ingredients have been tampered with or adulterated? Second, when I was in college, acid was THE thing on campus. I had a lot of friends, they had a lot of friends...next thing you know, there were hundreds of people networked who would have consensus over "this acid is speedy, this acid is awsome", etc. How could that many people be so collectively suggestable- not even knowing each other- having very different personalities...even consensus AFTER the fact, such as, "oh- that stuff that was around a few months ago was awful, wasn't it"? I just don't get it. And another thing- not once did I ever hear of anyone having a full-blown hallucination then. Not one single report. Nothing more than the "patterning", distortion of objects already there, trailing- that sort of thing. Why then, would Mel have a real hallucination if the common "wisdom" was "PCP gives hallucinations-stay away from it- acid can't and doesn't". Is that true? And please no one quote any govt reports- it's widely known those were falsified. I just don't get it.
>
> How does PCP come- is that also on blotters? >
>I really dont know and human psychology is a weird thing. Large groups of people see jesus in a taco all the time.
I've never seen PCP as it fell greatly out of favor as a recreational drug after the 70s (at least on the west coast). As far as i can tell an active dose of pcp is around 10mg. Small but not small enough for blotter paper unless you were taking something the size of a quarter sheet. I've never had first hand experiance with the drug so i cant say anything but i have used other dissociatives and there is no way in hell you're going to fool anyone that a dissociative is L. A dissociative trip is sort of like falling into yourself and your interalizations so far that the world is meaningless. Its like being in a numb void.
LSDs hallucinations look like illusions...unless you're completely twisted on an amount so large you should really know better, i seriously doubt you're ever going to mistake them for reality. I've seen some weird stuff but never once was i ever convinced it was real. A moderate dose produces the usual wall breathing/patterns/yada. Higher ones may definetly cause full blown open eye hallucinations.
Posted by laima on October 26, 2006, at 19:25:20
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 17:00:58
From the "northwest"? Did you not know then that PCP was HUGE there during the mid 1990's? A bit north of Berkley, though. It was coming down from Vancouver regularly.And as for LSD, massive numbers of college educated people, including all kinds of atheists and pagans, etc., don't often see jesus on tacos and then later get together to compare notes. Not even the guys who took so much acid that they sat physically incapacitated in their van for 2 days straight solving a professor's tricky "impossible" equations saw jesus or anything else like that. But they did solve the equations, to the professor's astonishment.
Posted by laima on October 26, 2006, at 19:31:40
In reply to Re: LSD never tried it , have you?, posted by dbc on October 26, 2006, at 17:00:58
I'd add that the PCP people were very enthused about seeing outrageous, full blown hallucinations, like heards of pink elephants walking down the street, friendly space-men landing with their spaceships in their backyards, and so on. They got a huge thrill about such "adventures" which they felt livened things up a bit. I've NEVER heard about that sort of thing with LSD. Nothing even remotely like that. And I kept my far distance from the PCP, so never actually saw it. But that's why I speculate about if a small amount of it could not have been added to LSD at times, to "enhance" it.
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