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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMD on August 12, 2005, at 10:50:28
I've quit drinking recently (ok, two days ago) and (finally) started going to AA ... but I've noticed slowness in memory, and just general sketchiness when it comes to recalling things I used to know quite well, e.g., the set theoretical definition of static separation of duty constraints in RBAC. I can remember it ok, after some thought, but not "visually" as much as I used to. It's scary.
Is this from recent alcohol consumption? Will I recover these abilities with abstention? How long does recovery take? Will my executive functions recover?
Is there anything I can take, medicine wise, that would accelerate recovery? Or is this damage permanent? (I hope for God's sake the latter is not true.)
I'm a bit depressed, wandery-headed, and just not up to my full capacity, but I'm hoping a good workout tonight will clear that up, or that a few more days of rest will, at least.
For now, I'm looking to friends and family for support, and building a network of sober friends. This drinking stuff is done!
YES, I AM GOING TO A.A. The first proactive step I've taken about this in six months!amd
Posted by AuntieMel on August 12, 2005, at 12:04:39
In reply to question re: memory recovery, posted by AMD on August 12, 2005, at 10:50:28
Congratulations on the first step! It isn't an easy road, but it's worth it.
>>Is this from recent alcohol consumption?
.......probably, but it is cumulative>>Will I recover these abilities with abstention?
.......probably>>How long does recovery take?
.......forever - it's a lifetime commitment. Time to recover function varies.Rest will help. Exercise will help. Your body could use extra B6 and B12 as it's probably depleted. Healthy eating is good. Sugary things like juice or chocolate help with the cravings.
>>This drinking stuff is done!
....Great! drugging too, I hope.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 12, 2005, at 21:20:21
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by AuntieMel on August 12, 2005, at 12:04:39
Good for you for attending AA. That's a big step. I wish you success.
gg
Posted by chemist on August 13, 2005, at 0:35:53
In reply to question re: memory recovery, posted by AMD on August 12, 2005, at 10:50:28
hello there, chemist here...excellent news, my chum! however, i see other problems lurking: are you keeping the RBAC work ANSI-compliant?
one can argue that knowing anything at all about RBAC might lead one to overindulge, after all, although no excuses anymore... :) all the best, and keep those thoughts POSIXitive, yours, c
> I've quit drinking recently (ok, two days ago) and (finally) started going to AA ... but I've noticed slowness in memory, and just general sketchiness when it comes to recalling things I used to know quite well, e.g., the set theoretical definition of static separation of duty constraints in RBAC. I can remember it ok, after some thought, but not "visually" as much as I used to. It's scary.
>
> Is this from recent alcohol consumption? Will I recover these abilities with abstention? How long does recovery take? Will my executive functions recover?
>
> Is there anything I can take, medicine wise, that would accelerate recovery? Or is this damage permanent? (I hope for God's sake the latter is not true.)
>
> I'm a bit depressed, wandery-headed, and just not up to my full capacity, but I'm hoping a good workout tonight will clear that up, or that a few more days of rest will, at least.
>
> For now, I'm looking to friends and family for support, and building a network of sober friends. This drinking stuff is done!
>
>
> YES, I AM GOING TO A.A. The first proactive step I've taken about this in six months!
>
> amd
Posted by AMD on August 13, 2005, at 17:45:48
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by AuntieMel on August 12, 2005, at 12:04:39
Thank you for the words of support. It means a lot.
Three meetings in two days... I could see myself expanding my network of "clean" friends very quickly. I need that.
These first days are the hardest, as I feel so depressed and generally under the weather (not to mention that my mind is terribly slow right now, my vocabularly exceedingly lacking, and my general problem solving skills seemingly erradicated!). But I am hoping that in a few days I'll begin feeling better. Same pattern as always, I guess: the feeling that "this time I've done it." I'm hoping that just one more time my mind will pull out of this slump, and in days, weeks, years I'll have the cognition back and the experiences triggering its decline fully in my past.
It's definitely cumulative. Looking back to February, when my decline began, I feel so much less interested in life, so much softer in the mind. Is this going to ever reverse itself?
I do have a couple more questions: I got "looney" during these drinking/drugging spells, most recently waking up in someone's apartment vestibule, half naked, delirious and confused. Today the terrible fear that I've "lost it" and that I'll send up in a mental institution. Is that so? Or was this mania and/or cocaine psychosis ignited during the binge.
Also, I'd still love more information on supplements that will hasten recovery. I'm taking the B's. Any others?
Thanks again, and much hugs.
amd
Posted by AMD on August 13, 2005, at 17:46:13
In reply to Keep it up! Woo hoo!, posted by gardenergirl on August 12, 2005, at 21:20:21
Thank you! =)
Posted by AMD on August 13, 2005, at 17:52:44
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by chemist on August 13, 2005, at 0:35:53
> hello there, chemist here...excellent news, my chum! however, i see other problems lurking: are you keeping the RBAC work ANSI-compliant?
>ANSI-compliant and seasoned to taste! Unfortunately, for the time being, I've moved on to less theoretical endeavors. Engaging in activities of logical nature does seem to help mend the faltering mind.
More important, I am looking forward to having a /life/ again, to feeling good about myself, my job, and having the base for a family, a home. Focusing on these things keeps me grounded.
I only hope it's not too late for the situation I'm in now, re: work, etc. I am lucky to be where I'm at given all that's happened (oh, what word could I use here? My poor vocabulary, come back, come back!) of all this, and I am motivated to work twice as hard to stay in that place.
I am picking myself up and moving forward. Time to live life again, not to wade through it in a fog of confusion and despair.
amd
Posted by AMD on August 13, 2005, at 18:14:15
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by chemist on August 13, 2005, at 0:35:53
One other thing. I've noticed something frightening this time around: I'll write something, and the next day forget having written it, or, at least, read it and thinking "that doesn't even sound like me."
In addition, I feel like I'm just floating through the days right now -- it's weird. It's some sort of affect (noun), where I'd separated from myself, and feel "unreal." I must have really messed with the chemicals in my brain this time around, and I'm wondering if my normal self will ever reappear.
For what it's worth, I took twice my dose of Lamictal today, and a Provigil yesterday for excessive rebound hypersomnia. Yet I don't think it's related to this.
It is possible I had a stroke? Or have done some permanent chemical damage? I'm frightened I'll go to work this week and simply blank out on the job. Planning a project; feeling creative: I just feel incapable of these right now. Depression? Damage? Both? Treatable?
Thanks,
amd
Posted by Jakeman on August 13, 2005, at 21:20:10
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AuntieMel, posted by AMD on August 13, 2005, at 17:45:48
>
> Also, I'd still love more information on supplements that will hasten recovery. I'm taking the B's. Any others?My favorite supplement for improving memory and cogitive functioning is phosphatidylserine. It's also been shown to lower cortisol helping you deal with stress.
Glutamine can help reduce alcohol and sugar cravings. You may want to take a look at the book
"Seven Weeks to Sobriety" which talks a lot about bio-chemical repair and nutrition.http://www.healthrecovery.com/Seven_Weeks_To_Sobriety.html
warm regards ~Jakeman
Posted by AuntieMel on August 15, 2005, at 9:26:16
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AuntieMel, posted by AMD on August 13, 2005, at 17:45:48
It can reverse itself if you work at it.
I will give you a memory tip, though. When you start feeling better you will tend to forget about how awful you feel now. Your mind (disease) will fondly remember the "good" times of using and conveniently forget the bad.
The trick is to get yourself to play it through in your mind to the end. If you start to think about "gee that would feel good right now" go ahead and visualize the entire scenerio through to the next day.
There are a couple of ways to reinenforce this. First is to start practicing it while you still feel awful.
Another thing to do is sit down and write, write, write - how bad you feel now, the stupid things you did under the influence, the things that made you want to use.
And - one thing that helps in the early stage - write a good-bye letter to your drugs and addiction. Tell them how they affected your life and what you think about them. Get angry!
And keep up the meetings. They keep you off the street.
Posted by AMD on August 15, 2005, at 18:45:27
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by AuntieMel on August 15, 2005, at 9:26:16
Thank you, thank you, thank you, guys! I need these kind of messages, those that give me hope that the worst is behind me, not in front of me.
Something's been nagging at me that I didn't ask earlier. I'm afraid during my last binge I may have tried some crystal meth -- not sure, but perhaps. That would have been the first time I'd used it, but I blacked out, so I can't be sure. I've heard some horrible things -- rotting teeth; permanent depression; diseases. Are these something one would get having done meth once? I'm worried my teeth will fall out or, worse, than my depression won't lift. I'm still feeling down, and I'm waiting for my spirits to improve again.
Please let me come back here in a week with a "I feel good, and I'm not going to drink"!
amd
Posted by Phil on August 15, 2005, at 19:09:58
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AuntieMel, posted by AMD on August 15, 2005, at 18:45:27
"Something's been nagging at me that I didn't ask earlier. I'm afraid during my last binge I may have tried some crystal meth -- not sure, but perhaps. That would have been the first time I'd used it, but I blacked out, so I can't be sure."
__________
Doubtful you would have blacked out on crystal.
Posted by AMD on August 16, 2005, at 9:08:27
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by Phil on August 15, 2005, at 19:09:58
I am feeling so physically ill today! I think I must still be recovering from the last binge. This will take how long to resolve again? Up to 96 hours? It's been almost a week.
I contemplated today how my "occasional" habit quickly became a heavy, weekly habit. It's scary. The word "addict" came to mind: perhaps not as bad as some, but certainly excessive. And then I thought, maybe I'm past the point of no return. Maybe my days of hope, intelligence, happiness are all in the past. Six months ago I was writing creatively; thinking clearly; excited to be in the city and back home. And in six months I sit here today, exhausted, murky headed, completely incapacitated creatively... and wondering, like I said, if I'll ever get back to that place I was six months ago. I am so ashamed of myself.
amd
Posted by AuntieMel on August 16, 2005, at 17:29:48
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery, posted by AMD on August 16, 2005, at 9:08:27
There's a fine line between abuse and addiction. Inability is a key word. When you started using on a given day were you "inable" to quit before having too much? Were you "inable" to go without?
Yes, you are still recovering. But it *does* get easier. The odds are strongly in favor of your creativity coming back, too, if you keep at it.
No reason to be ashamed. You're human.
Posted by AMD on August 17, 2005, at 8:29:11
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by AuntieMel on August 16, 2005, at 17:29:48
The meth question has me worried, most of all because I don't know if I did it or not. Most likely, I suspect, not -- but I remember /asking/ for it, which is dangerous, as I've never touched the stuff.
Does one-time use cause tooth decay, permanent brain damage, or other changes that last persistently? I've heard true horror stories about this stuff, and, unlike with the cocaine, I feel "dirty" about the possibility I may have snorted some. Then again, I don't think I did. Still, I am feeling so miserable today!
amd
Posted by Declan on August 17, 2005, at 15:51:59
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by Phil on August 15, 2005, at 19:09:58
Hey AMD, Phil's right I think. Difficult to black out on meth before you drink yourself into a stupor, and even then...
Declan
Posted by AMD on August 17, 2005, at 17:02:42
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery, posted by AMD on August 17, 2005, at 8:29:11
No, I'm certain I blacked out on alcohol. Just worried the meth -- jeez, I don't even know if I did any to begin with! -- might have caused permanent damage.
Worst case scenario: yes? no?
Posted by Declan on August 18, 2005, at 3:13:49
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery, posted by AMD on August 17, 2005, at 17:02:42
If you'd had the meth you couldn't have blacked out, unless you are talking about a truly industrial intake of alcohol (or an innocuous dose of meth). In which case you'd have landed you in hospital or something.
Sometimes people just have to worry, and can't be reassured. Maybe your worry is displaced from something else, perhaps something you need to keep in order that you feel you have not.
Of course I have *no* idea.
Declan
Posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 7:57:34
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery » AMD, posted by Declan on August 18, 2005, at 3:13:49
I hope that means I didn't, because I have been truly obsessing about this all week, to the point of severe depression and an inability to wake. I just want to sleep, sleep, sleep. I have images in my mind of rotting teeth, a destroyed brain ... all from that one episode.
amd
Posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 10:22:18
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery, posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 7:57:34
I am soooooo depressed. I can't remember being this depressed. That's why I'm worried I did something more than just my usual alcohol and cocaine excess.
Will this ever pass? I can't concentrate on a thing. Anything too hard, and my mind wanders. I just don't feel capable of handling lots of facts and tasks at the same time.
Is this depression? Because I want to sleep 24/7, and cry when awake.
Yet I'm taking 80 m.g. of Celexa and 200 m.g. of Lamictal daily, and it's not helping at all.
I am losing hope here. It's been almost a week, and I'm feeling no better. Did I give myself brain damage? Will I ever be able to concentrate again? I can't see that coming back any time soon given how horrible I feel right now. Can depression lift relatively quickly, as quickly as it came on?
No energy ....
amd
Posted by mattsit on August 18, 2005, at 12:52:43
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery, posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 10:22:18
AMD,
Im not trying to be rude here, but do you realize you post the same questions week after week? People on here let you know you probably didnt do permanent damage to yourself, but that you should reconsider what you are doing to yourself....
Then a few days later the same postings. Maybe its time you stop living minute to minute after these binges, and think about your post binge questions and panic before you take that next drink or drug.
I only say this because I was the same way...and the day I realized I was stuck in that same pattern, is the day I made some changes...and now I dont make those panicky posts anymore - did I ruin my brain, will I ever escape "the fog"...just tink about it.
Because one of these times, something will happen that will be permanent, and none of us want to see that happen to you.
Posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 13:47:18
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery, posted by mattsit on August 18, 2005, at 12:52:43
I have made a change recently: I'm in A.A. And it is helping. But I am worried I did meth for the first time last week, and I can't quit obsessing about it. Why? Because unlike every other drug I've ever tried, this one reportedly has serious neurotoxic effects even after taking it just once.
I am praying I didn't take it at all -- I wasn't up for hours, at least -- but the not knowing is killing me. I hope within a few days this fog will lift, and with the A.A. I'll be finally on my way to recovery.
You bet, this is a very vicious cycle.
amd
Posted by chemist on August 20, 2005, at 2:30:43
In reply to Re: question re: memory recovery, posted by mattsit on August 18, 2005, at 12:52:43
hello there, chemist here... i certainly echo mattsit's sentiments:
> Because one of these times, something will happen that will be permanent, and none of us want to see that happen to you.
>all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on August 20, 2005, at 4:15:58
In reply to one other thing » chemist, posted by AMD on August 13, 2005, at 18:14:15
> One other thing. I've noticed something frightening this time around: I'll write something, and the next day forget having written it, or, at least, read it and thinking "that doesn't even sound like me."
hello there, chemist here...AMD, we all make mistakes....some are due to lateness of the hour, some are not realized as such until it's far to late, and some might actually be deliberate should one, say, wish to determine whether or not an expected outcome confirms or denies what one suspects.
thanks for providing the answer...
>
> In addition, I feel like I'm just floating through the days right now -- it's weird. It's some sort of affect (noun), where I'd separated from myself, and feel "unreal." I must have really messed with the chemicals in my brain this time around, and I'm wondering if my normal self will ever reappear.**** who can say? your ``normal self'' is not evident to me, a person with whom you communicate via the internet. your posts seem rather consistent, although that is hardly a measure of neurodegeneration. i wouldn't worry about it if i were you...****
>
> For what it's worth, I took twice my dose of Lamictal today, and a Provigil yesterday for excessive rebound hypersomnia. Yet I don't think it's related to this.
>
> It is possible I had a stroke?*** anything is possible, AMD...even the ``rare'' and ``life-threatening'' adverse reactions one might expect to occur should they bite off more of a bitter pill than they can chew, so to speak, do not necessarily manifest themselves. however, the warnings and advisories are there to ensure that you and the doctor take steps to ensure that both parties benefit most and leave little to chance, should a potentially fatal interaction as described in fact be of concern. ****
Or have done some permanent chemical damage? I'm frightened I'll go to work this week and simply blank out on the job. Planning a project; feeling creative: I just feel incapable of these right now. Depression? Damage? Both? Treatable?
**** well, it is a week past this post - sorry about getting back to you just now - so i must apologize as i am in no position to even surmise how you fared during the past week. in the interest of edification for all of us here at PB: did you blank out as feared, and fail to complete your project as you had planned? if the answer is no, then even more reason to let this issue rest. you'll be just fine.....all the best, chemist
> Thanks,
>
> amd
Posted by AMD on August 20, 2005, at 9:49:08
In reply to Re: one other thing » AMD, posted by chemist on August 20, 2005, at 4:15:58
chemist,
Thanks for your response.
I'm still quite depressed, and I'm wondering if a new regimen of medications might be in order. I am having trouble getting up, and want to simply lie around and sleep all day. I feel sad, slow, and just ... "depressed," in the way only someone with clinical depression can understand. I wonder if this will ever pass, as it feels so dreadfully permanent right now.
I'll let you know if/when I begin to feel better.
On that note, do you know of any antidepressants that are effective for the kind of damage stimulate abuse might effect?
What is the prognosis of happiness in long-term recovery, if not cognitive improvement? (If I had to choose, I'd rather smile than be able to quickly work out the solution to Rubik's Cube.)
amd
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