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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sigismund on September 21, 2013, at 22:02:10
I am SO uninterested in the movies of the anglosphere, so I was as usual pessimistic. But I absolutely loved it. I have no idea of the relationship of the script to Lincoln's life, but I aim to get hold of it and read it carefully.
It is not right to talk about Lincoln *reframing* things exactly, but how else? He had this way of defining things.
My goodness I liked it. And by Spielberg too. Amazing and wonderful.
Like he was a teacher? I don't know. But of what?
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2013, at 22:20:41
In reply to Lincoln, posted by sigismund on September 21, 2013, at 22:02:10
I also heard it was a great movie. So you recommend this movie? PJ
Posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2013, at 22:50:51
In reply to Re: Lincoln » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2013, at 22:20:41
Hmm. I almost watched it and then decided it probably wasn't my thing. But I will watch it in the very near future...
Have you seen Mary and Max? I think you would love it...
Posted by sigismund on September 21, 2013, at 23:38:29
In reply to Re: Lincoln » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2013, at 22:20:41
Yes, I do, very much. It stayed with me after and still has.
Posted by sigismund on September 21, 2013, at 23:44:41
In reply to Re: Lincoln » Phillipa, posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2013, at 22:50:51
Yes, I have seen Mary and Max. Max has Asperger's, right? I am always interested in anything about aspergers and autism.
Weren't the constructions of New York buildings good? Is that called claymation?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2013, at 0:28:36
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by sigismund on September 21, 2013, at 23:44:41
> Yes, I have seen Mary and Max. Max has Asperger's, right? I am always interested in anything about aspergers and autism.
>
> Weren't the constructions of New York buildings good? Is that called claymation?I don't know what it is... It really was a wonderful film, though. I have watched it twice, now, and I'm not sure that I've said this about any film except 'Clue' - but it got a lot better on the second run through. More of an appreciation for little things... Running off with a sheep farmer from NZ called Desmond... The guy who was (quite rightly) afraid of being run over by the road hoons... Mary... Reminded me a great deal of my office mate in Aussie (who was from Melbourne - and she had the same accent)... The Harry Potter glasses... It just got me all kinds of nostalgic for Australia.
And of course the whole 'what is wrong with me' and the desire to cure or fix it... I missed why he was upset the first run through.
I wonder...
I don't know...
I don't know that he wanted to meet her particularly.
I...
I liked that it wasn't moralistic.
I will watch Lincoln. Have heard nothing but good things. And I trust your judgement.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2013, at 0:32:04
In reply to Re: Lincoln » sigismund, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2013, at 0:28:36
> I liked that it wasn't moralistic.
actually, that isn't true. I liked the message that it gave: That he didn't think of himself as being ill or needing to be fixed.
that it let that be.
insofar as it passed judgement it passed judgement on non-acceptance of that.
Posted by SLS on September 22, 2013, at 10:47:42
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2013, at 0:32:04
I think that the movie portrayed Lincoln as being a moral politician. Politics could not be removed from the equation.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on September 22, 2013, at 18:47:29
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by SLS on September 22, 2013, at 10:47:42
He felt like a moral teacher to me. Of course the politics was horrendous and the (legal) categories with which he had to work so interesting and basically awful.
Posted by sigismund on September 22, 2013, at 18:51:11
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by sigismund on September 22, 2013, at 18:47:29
It should be possible to get the text, maybe online.
That bloke who wrote the screen play for Angels in America, he wrote it I think.
I remember enjoying Roy Cohn in that.
Posted by sigismund on September 22, 2013, at 19:11:26
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by sigismund on September 22, 2013, at 18:47:29
OK, I have a question. You know how in the film there has just been an election? I think. And presumably the congressmen from the Confederate States are not present?
How was the election undertaken? OK, with difficulty.
And
The congressmen from the southern states are not present? They are in some southern assembly?
Posted by baseball55 on September 22, 2013, at 19:23:26
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by sigismund on September 22, 2013, at 19:11:26
As an American, I should know more of the history, but history was never my strong suit. I thought that the slave states were not represented in the legislature, because they had seceded.
Daniel Day Lewis won the Academy Award for best actor for Lincoln. What's that -- like his third Academy Award.
> OK, I have a question. You know how in the film there has just been an election? I think. And presumably the congressmen from the Confederate States are not present?
>
> How was the election undertaken? OK, with difficulty.
>
> And
>
> The congressmen from the southern states are not present? They are in some southern assembly?
>
>
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2013, at 0:38:40
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by baseball55 on September 22, 2013, at 19:23:26
I bought Howard Zinns "A People's History of the USA" at Lima airport. I didn't know anything much about the US, especially long ago. Interesting take on the decision to fight slavery from above. We must resist the temptation to see the past in today's terms. People can only be people of their time. But still, in that script he felt ahead of it, and that was interesting with him being a lawyer because that is not how I think of them these days. "Rough Crossing" by Simon Schama was very good too. My idea of good history.
Posted by baseball55 on September 23, 2013, at 20:00:56
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by sigismund on September 23, 2013, at 0:38:40
Thanks for the suggestions. I've never read Howard Zinn's book, though everybody I know says it's fantastic. Maybe it will be my summer reading next summer. Not particularly relevant to an Aussie, but certainly to an American is a book called "Lies my Teacher Told Me" which is a critique of the sanatized version of US history taught in the US public schools. Written by a historian and also a very good writer.
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2013, at 20:13:42
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by baseball55 on September 23, 2013, at 20:00:56
I think my interest comes from the fact that I grew up in the country where only 50 years before the last of the indigenous people were removed. Our forgetting and creation (of us) story was the basis of our brittle respectability.
In those days we thought of ourselves in the same boat as South Africa, but with thankfully fewer blacks. But with agile movement we made a narrow escape.
Australian history was so boring back then....free trade vs protectionism. Nothing about, for example, how Woodrow Wilson wanted the Australians on board for the League of Nations and so rejected the Japanese demand at Versailles for a racial equality clause, leaving them up the end of the table opposite Guatemala and Ecuador. Where the conversation would have had to be better than listening to Billy Hughes going on about c**ns or Clemenceau on how terrible it was to be trapped in a city with only Japanese women.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2013, at 21:51:28
In reply to Re: Lincoln » baseball55, posted by sigismund on September 23, 2013, at 20:13:42
well i tried again, but i can't watch it. i don't know what it is.
it is reminding me of pulp fiction... i tried to watch that one several times and couldn't make it past the 20 minute mark. then finally i just made myself sit down and watch it. and of course i was like 'that is brilliant! i totally have to watch that again!' as soon as i'd seen it right the way through.
maybe this will turn out to be like that.
part of the problem is that i have a virus right now. awful headcold. hard to focus. not in the mood for sombre.
did you see the tarantino one on slavery? django unchained? loved it. irreverant. love his stylized violence (my favourite shakespearean play is titus andronicus)
Posted by sigismund on September 23, 2013, at 22:24:04
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2013, at 21:51:28
Yes I did see Django Unchained. My son watches everything by Tarantino. It made me slightly uneasy.
What did not make me uneasy is the meal scene from Titus Andronicus. I enjoy that immensely. You would not describe that as sombre? Perhaps not. The pastry.
While not always enjoying Tarantino, the way he used music in pulp fiction was extraordinary. My favourite moment is 'Where's my medical book?'
Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2013, at 2:07:10
In reply to Re: Lincoln » alexandra_k, posted by sigismund on September 23, 2013, at 22:24:04
It made me slightly uneasy, too. I think one was supposed to feel slightly uneasy about it all. I haven't seen Titus Andronicus - only read it. I thought it was a comedy. Like braindead. The idea was that the viewer would habituate the the stylized violence and come to find it funny. Tarantino doesn't quite cross to the 'funny' side of the habituation... But he doesn't something unreal with it. Comic book. Since Sin City. There is something stylized and comic book about the violence that makes it okay / unreal for me.
Lincoln had a lot of 'picture' moments, too. Seems to be all the rage in film these days. A lot of it is picture perfect. Heavily composed. I'm sure there is a technical way of describing this... I don't know how. I found Lincoln to be... Disturbing. I don't know... Perhaps it is just because I'm sick at the moment....
When I was a kid I had a book about Lincoln... There was a whole series... One of my friends had more books in the series... Wonderful books... There was one about rabies and you got to travel as the virus through the persons body (I think vaguely from memory)... I wish I read more of them... But I'll always remember Lincoln and the log cabin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValueTales
damn... I'd love to get hold of them and read them now...
damn... in some respects my mother really was quite wonderful to me...
Posted by sigismund on September 24, 2013, at 15:32:47
In reply to Re: Lincoln » sigismund, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2013, at 2:07:10
We saw Blue Jasmine last night. It references A Streetcar Named Desire. I thought it was wonderful. Very funny in parts.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 24, 2013, at 16:52:45
In reply to Re: Lincoln, posted by baseball55 on September 23, 2013, at 20:00:56
> Not particularly relevant to an Aussie, but certainly to an American is a book called "Lies my Teacher Told Me" which is a critique of the sanatized version of US history taught in the US public schools. Written by a historian and also a very good writer.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, a movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she is at least aware of it.
Thanks for letting us know about that,
Bob
Posted by sigismund on September 25, 2013, at 17:07:20
In reply to Re: double double quotes » baseball55, posted by Dr. Bob on September 24, 2013, at 16:52:45
I do recall being taught, around the age of 9, how the best agricultural land in South Africa had been put apart for the blacks. Also
'What is the Apple Isle?'
'Tasmania is the Apple Isle'
Certainly no blacks roaming about there, nor where I was either. So many things which were good for the character, and a low suicide rate too. Only the professional naysayers would think of complaining.
This is the end of the thread.
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