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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2013, at 5:41:32
I don't know if there is some reasoning behind it but the wonderful magical number seems to be twenty-five.
Can't face the thesis today? It is okay. You totally don't have to. Just look at it a little bit for twenty-five minutes and then you can go do something else.
And inevitably something pisses me off about the way things are so things get moved around a bit and tap-tap here and tap-tap over there.
After fifteen I'm staring at my watch filled with angst and despair. It truly is horrible... But only ten minutes to go...
Then fifteen minutes later I realize I've worked overtime and I'm actually having fun and it is kinda odd to pull myself out of it - No I really must stop and get up and stretch and have a break.
And then after 5 minutes... Or 10... Or an hour...
I only have to face it for twenty-five minutes.
The goal is: 6 blocks.
Every day.
Forever.
Where I've been going wrong...
My life is fairly ruled by my urges, I guess. I don't have any external structure. Just odd deadlines cropping up. Deadlines that (as an undergraduate) could be met by a combination of my natural curiosity (actually desiring to read the books / go to the lectures) and a couple days cramming. Then Honors was a bit of a push... 4 major essays... Around a week for each of them... A month of hell... Somehow I got through (fear of failing). And then Masters was basically the same thing again. One month of hell at the end of it all to pull together two major pieces of work into a single work.
But this...
Is different again...
It is the length. It is an awkward length.
I keep woffling on because I'm fearful that what I won't have enough words. But then I keep needing to delete out great chunks because it is an aimless ramble and there doesn't seem to be a point to it. I waste a lot of time trying to get the phrasing right, digging out references and so on for great tracts that only need to be deleted out later. I don't have much of a sense of what parts need to be expanded out and what parts need to be culled back. And nobody else has an opinion...
One of my advisors early on said that there are an infinite (or more cautiously indefinite) number of theses out there in something like a Platonic realm of forms. And that... I only had to hit upon one of them.
I think there is something to that. There are an indefinite number of ways things could go. I could craft what I've got in indefinitely many ways into indefinately many different theses. Which way I go doesn't actually matter. It is just about hitting upon one of the ways and doing it.
Another of my advisors a bit later on said that he liked to think of it as google earth. The biosphere is the title. The continents are parts. the countries are chapters. And so on... And you have different levels of zoom.
And the thing to do is to find an interesting angle and work with that... And when things get stuck then shift the level of zoom. That sometimes that helps.
And that is all very vague, really...
I guess the thing is... That it will be obvious to us all when it is done, and it is obvious to us all that it isn't done yet.
Hmm...
Currently I'm thinking: 3 papers. So around 20,000 words per paper. Or less. Lets say 15,000 words per paper. And then I can write an introduction and conclusion later that will tie them all in. I think theses almost endlessly repeat, actually, so that is good for a whole bunch of words.
Journal articles... Are more like 6,500 words. So morphing a 6,500 word article into a... Lets say 12,000 words paper (with lots of repetition for signposting) still requires about half of it to be needless woffle. So about half of it is a sort of a space filler...
Or perhaps I'm thinking about all this all wrong???
ffs.
Just Get It Done.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2013, at 5:51:10
In reply to Twenty-Five Minutes, posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2013, at 5:41:32
Aah.
I see the problem.
Once upon a time I had (wonderful wonderful wonderful) LaTeX with its beautifully smooth compile and a freshly generated table of contents from heading alterations.
Now I have a battle of wills with Word where Word is protesting being run on a Mac and it is determined to F*ck Things Up for me (again).
I've got it in three parts because I became persuaded that the three paper option was nicest (promises three publications).
But then APA style... And I've got a minimalist table of contents indeed... To minimalist.
I need...
A bridge.
And I need more numbers milestones. About how many words should this or that or the next section take me?
God dammit. This is what is hard. Crafting... That is what it is, I suppose.
I guess... That is what it is.
Sigh.
A deadline. That typically helps. Magic that.
Posted by baseball55 on July 1, 2013, at 19:31:32
In reply to Re: Twenty-Five Minutes, posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2013, at 5:51:10
When I wrote my thesis, I was teaching and my daughter was three. I taught during the day, then worked four nights a week from 4-10 on writing. My goal every night was to add 1200 words. I did word counts repeatedly to make sure I was meeting my goal. Of the six hours I worked at night, I spent probably the first three or four revising what I had written before, then started adding words.
It got done.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:27:50
In reply to Re: Twenty-Five Minutes, posted by baseball55 on July 1, 2013, at 19:31:32
That's a good and workable idea.
I was at a writing workshop once (not for myself) and the speaker said the most important goal he set for himself was to actually put the words on paper (so to speak). They didn't have to be great or even good, but he did force himself to write something.
Then he spent a lot of time re-writing if necessary.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2013, at 2:30:42
In reply to Re: Twenty-Five Minutes, posted by baseball55 on July 1, 2013, at 19:31:32
> When I wrote my thesis, I was teaching and my daughter was three. I taught during the day, then worked four nights a week from 4-10 on writing. My goal every night was to add 1200 words. I did word counts repeatedly to make sure I was meeting my goal. Of the six hours I worked at night, I spent probably the first three or four revising what I had written before, then started adding words.
> It got done.
Wow. I guess different people are different, hey. I'm not entirely sure how my words got here, but got here they did and now I have a big (big big) mess of them. After merging together all the seminars / papers and odd half finished bits of writing I'd done I found myself with 120,000 words. I then spent a couple months revising it down to a more manageable 80,000.
I then... After much angst... Admitted to myself that I needed to SIMPLIFY greatly. Most of it was... Woffle. It was unclear *why* I was doing what I was doing. It was unclear *why* I'd rambled on about this or that for 20,000 words.
So...
I decided on 3 papers / parts. Of 20,000 words each. So now it is about getting an abstract for each part and then getting clear on the table of contents breakdown for each part. And then figuring out how to craft each part so I do what I've promised in the abstract (provided an argument, basically). And then add the filler / padding till it is the right word length.
For me... Writing is easy. The work is (always, always) in the editing.
Tractatus I have not.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2013, at 2:32:31
In reply to Re: Twenty-Five Minutes » baseball55, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2013, at 2:30:42
Ah... You wisely split your time between editing and writing. That was my mistake. Too much writing and not enough time editing. I pay now :-)
Doubly because I took a couple years off so now a whole new bunch of stuff has come out and the debate has progressed. On the one hand *yay* I now am a firm believer in philosophical progress. On the other hand *boo* I now have not only more editing but also more writing to do.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2013, at 2:34:44
In reply to Re: Twenty-Five Minutes » baseball55, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:27:50
> That's a good and workable idea.
> I was at a writing workshop once (not for myself) and the speaker said the most important goal he set for himself was to actually put the words on paper (so to speak). They didn't have to be great or even good, but he did force himself to write something.
> Then he spent a lot of time re-writing if necessary.
Yep. Often times getting started is the hardest part. Important to get what you are saying out there and then revise it later. I know a lot of people who never get anything done because they can't bring themselves to work with an imperfect opening sentence. I've also heard that introductions are best written last.
But really... Google earth, I think. Back and forth... One needs to shift the views and alter the focuses. I guess the ultimate aim is for all the different levels to be in perfect alignment.
Posted by Emme_V2 on July 3, 2013, at 3:43:43
In reply to Twenty-Five Minutes, posted by alexandra_k on July 1, 2013, at 5:41:32
> I don't know if there is some reasoning behind it but the wonderful magical number seems to be twenty-five.
>
> Can't face the thesis today? It is okay. You totally don't have to. Just look at it a little bit for twenty-five minutes and then you can go do something else.
>
> And inevitably something pisses me off about the way things are so things get moved around a bit and tap-tap here and tap-tap over there.
>
> After fifteen I'm staring at my watch filled with angst and despair. It truly is horrible... But only ten minutes to go...
>
> Then fifteen minutes later I realize I've worked overtime and I'm actually having fun and it is kinda odd to pull myself out of it - No I really must stop and get up and stretch and have a break.
>
> And then after 5 minutes... Or 10... Or an hour...
>
> I only have to face it for twenty-five minutes.
>
> The goal is: 6 blocks.
>
> Every day.
>
> Forever.
>
> Where I've been going wrong...
>
> My life is fairly ruled by my urges, I guess. I don't have any external structure. Just odd deadlines cropping up. Deadlines that (as an undergraduate) could be met by a combination of my natural curiosity (actually desiring to read the books / go to the lectures) and a couple days cramming. Then Honors was a bit of a push... 4 major essays... Around a week for each of them... A month of hell... Somehow I got through (fear of failing). And then Masters was basically the same thing again. One month of hell at the end of it all to pull together two major pieces of work into a single work.
>
> But this...
>
> Is different again...
>
> It is the length. It is an awkward length.
>
> I keep woffling on because I'm fearful that what I won't have enough words. But then I keep needing to delete out great chunks because it is an aimless ramble and there doesn't seem to be a point to it. I waste a lot of time trying to get the phrasing right, digging out references and so on for great tracts that only need to be deleted out later. I don't have much of a sense of what parts need to be expanded out and what parts need to be culled back. And nobody else has an opinion...
>
> One of my advisors early on said that there are an infinite (or more cautiously indefinite) number of theses out there in something like a Platonic realm of forms. And that... I only had to hit upon one of them.
>
> I think there is something to that. There are an indefinite number of ways things could go. I could craft what I've got in indefinitely many ways into indefinately many different theses. Which way I go doesn't actually matter. It is just about hitting upon one of the ways and doing it.
>
> Another of my advisors a bit later on said that he liked to think of it as google earth. The biosphere is the title. The continents are parts. the countries are chapters. And so on... And you have different levels of zoom.
>
> And the thing to do is to find an interesting angle and work with that... And when things get stuck then shift the level of zoom. That sometimes that helps.
>
> And that is all very vague, really...
>
> I guess the thing is... That it will be obvious to us all when it is done, and it is obvious to us all that it isn't done yet.
>
> Hmm...
>
> Currently I'm thinking: 3 papers. So around 20,000 words per paper. Or less. Lets say 15,000 words per paper. And then I can write an introduction and conclusion later that will tie them all in. I think theses almost endlessly repeat, actually, so that is good for a whole bunch of words.
>
> Journal articles... Are more like 6,500 words. So morphing a 6,500 word article into a... Lets say 12,000 words paper (with lots of repetition for signposting) still requires about half of it to be needless woffle. So about half of it is a sort of a space filler...
>
> Or perhaps I'm thinking about all this all wrong???
>
> ffs.
>
> Just Get It Done.
>
It definitely gets to be a psychological battle in some ways. :) Everyone's strategy is a little different. What helped me (and everyone is different) was to make the file, set the margins according to university requirements, set up the styles for the headings, etc. Even if nothing was actually written, I had a file with a filename! It sounds like you're already beyond that. Then I did the "easier" stuff - the methods section - describing which procedures I used to do what. Start to populate the reference section.....Paste in some graphs to anchor some words. Once I had a file with a bunch of pages with words on them and some images - any words and images - my anxiety went down enough that I could take on the real thought and synthesis.Every day that you're getting a wee bit done, gets you a bit closer. Whatever works.
Just keep in mind that awesome day when you'll drop the thing off at the printer.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2013, at 4:03:39
In reply to Re: Twenty-Five Minutes » alexandra_k, posted by Emme_V2 on July 3, 2013, at 3:43:43
heh. by the time i'm finished they probably will have electronic submission :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2013, at 5:34:24
In reply to Re: Twenty-Five Minutes » alexandra_k, posted by Emme_V2 on July 3, 2013, at 3:43:43
ah, science. if i do another phd (and maybe i will) it will be in science :-)
dr...
lisence to practice... research.
aka: if you pay me money to do some research i'll do some research with it (produce articles in good journals / books with good publishers).
that is the job.
and a phd is a lisence to practice.
so... i need to demonstrate competence. aka: time to cough up.
only i'll probably not get a job from it because i'll have coughed up a little too little a little too late.
at least now i have a better understanding of the politics of research. looking to the productive research groups and working with their stuff since they are the ones who are likely to work with yours (since they are productive too). so that narrows down the literature considerably... philosophy can be a lot more like science... i think that it should...
which is good, actually. because it gives me an in: if i can get into the habit of solidly working... then publications are actually reasonably formulaic and it is just about solidly putting in the time. if i want... i am ambivalent.
This is the end of the thread.
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