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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 48 to 72 of 72. Go back in thread:
Posted by karen_kay on May 1, 2007, at 16:15:06
In reply to Re: Another View » verne, posted by MCK on May 1, 2007, at 14:54:56
you said: No personal casting of aspersions here, but as a broad example, it's said of sociopaths that no one leaves a conversation with a true sociopath thinking "What a nefarious individual" They leave thinking "What a great person!"
i fear i may well be a true sociopath. if one is one, does one realize it? (i do tend to think i'm rather great, actually truly wonderful.)
Posted by MCK on May 1, 2007, at 19:54:44
In reply to oh dear! » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 1, 2007, at 16:15:06
Ah, I think if you question yourself and your motives it's unlikely. Sociopaths unlike psychopaths know the rules, which is what makes them difficult to spot, they know when and how to play along, but feel some divine right allows their personal exemption when it suits.
Now, there are plenty of occasions where rule breaking is a good thing. What I'm speaking of is the right to lie, to victimize, to commit crime, using others to ones own end I suppose.
I'll bring out the old chestnut:
"All snakes are reptiles but not all reptiles are snakes"After all 'twould be a shame to start thinking every charismatic person you meet is sociopathic. Fortunate that it's not the defining factor, it's a reminder to keep one's mind open. I've not seen too many of your posts but from the little I have seen, it looks like that's nothing you have a problem with.
Posted by karen_kay on May 1, 2007, at 20:22:26
In reply to Re: oh dear! » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 1, 2007, at 19:54:44
don't we all do that, in some ways? i'm not saying outright manipulate the system, steal candy bars (ok, i think i've stolen liquor as a teen, but if they sold it to minors, there'd be no need to steal it, right?), act like complete vandals (ok, again bringing up teenage angst), lied (and am completely able to justify all these things in my head).
i think i'm thinking more of my afterthought first.
basically, where is the line drawn? i'm pretty good at 'getting my way'. maybe it's just because i'm so 'darn cute' and everyone's just happy to do it? it does lead me to wonder though, is that me manipulating or people just not minding me doing it?
do you even care? if not feel free to say 'hey, you're pretty darn sweet to me' and i'll be happy with that answer. i've often just wondered about that whole sociopath dx (even asked my therapist if he thought i had it. he said no and laughed, but i decided he just didn't know the 'real' me.). i seem to fit many of the descriptions (or at least feel i do). perhaps it's just guilt?
Posted by MCK on May 2, 2007, at 14:42:40
In reply to well, to be completely honest.. » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 1, 2007, at 20:22:26
> don't we all do that, in some ways? i'm not saying outright manipulate the system, steal candy bars (ok, i think i've stolen liquor as a teen, but if they sold it to minors, there'd be no need to steal it, right?), act like complete vandals (ok, again bringing up teenage angst), lied (and am completely able to justify all these things in my head).
>Yes I think most do. I'd be less concerned with labels and more concerned with how my actions affect people. I didn't mean to portray myself as a believer in labelling people just because their actions could be categorized in some way.
As for breaking laws I can't argue that an arbitrary set of societal laws should be followed or one is a sociopath. The opposite is often true, few unjust laws would ever have been changed without having been broken, think of Rosa Parks.
If I came across as someone who championed the DSM whatever and would put the same label on Idi Amin or Jim Bakker as I would on someone who stole a candy bar or cheated on their car insurance it was completely unintentional. I hope that answers your question.
> i think i'm thinking more of my afterthought first.
>
> basically, where is the line drawn? i'm pretty good at 'getting my way'. maybe it's just because i'm so 'darn cute' and everyone's just happy to do it? it does lead me to wonder though, is that me manipulating or people just not minding me doing it?
>
> do you even care? if not feel free to say 'hey, you're pretty darn sweet to me' and i'll be happy with that answer. i've often just wondered about that whole sociopath dx (even asked my therapist if he thought i had it. he said no and laughed, but i decided he just didn't know the 'real' me.). i seem to fit many of the descriptions (or at least feel i do). perhaps it's just guilt?
Posted by karen_kay on May 2, 2007, at 19:32:14
In reply to Re: well, to be completely honest.. » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 2, 2007, at 14:42:40
i think i'm just trying to use you as a sit in, online therapist.
i'm sorry. i do get rather concerned about my own intentions, movitations, ect.
you didn't come across as anything but someone knowledgable.
my own personal issues, i assure you. you don't appear to be casting out dx's or judgements of any sort. you just mentioned sociopaths and my eyes perked (opened?), as i've always suspected myself as one.
again, sorry for the confusion. it's my own issue dear.
Posted by MCK on May 2, 2007, at 22:34:29
In reply to oh dear yet again... » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 2, 2007, at 19:32:14
Dear, and (perfectly sweet) Karen KayI didn't mean to sound cross. I understand those issues, which is why I probably couldn't offer any help. I too am obsessively scrutinizing my own motives, we are hindered I think a certain amount by biology, things we desire, reactions we desire.
I've arrived at the point where I believe as long as I'm constantly scrutinizing and learning, weighing out harm done and not adhering to concepts soley because they exist, then I'm doing as well as I can. That's all I would expect from anyone, but of course I'm not you, so it's probably easy for me to say. Besides, if I said any more things you may well propose to me and then I'd have to be the first to break your heart.
Posted by verne on May 3, 2007, at 1:10:28
In reply to Re: Another View » verne, posted by MCK on May 1, 2007, at 14:54:56
MCK,
Why not accept my view of Larry Hoover as the "gold standard" without quibbling? Essentially, you attempt to invalidate my experience of the Hooverite as a glowing influence. Afterall, isn't that just my view, anyway?
Would you tell someone, in real life, their view of another person was "wrong", that they should see the person in a more "complex" situation, and then suggest the object of their admiration may be a sociopath?
It would be like someone following you around the art museum telling you that you've viewed a painting in the wrong way. Can't we, at least, allow others to have their own perspectives?
verne
Posted by karen_kay on May 3, 2007, at 7:45:36
In reply to Re: oh dear yet again... » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 2, 2007, at 22:34:29
you did notice though, you referred to me as perfect(ly). the (ly) part doesn't matter really, i pay more attention to the part in front of that. thank you.
you didn't sound (or read) cross at all dear. promise. i just wanted to be certain you knew i didn't think you were throwing around dx's and such; that it was my issue, not you accusing or what have you.
about that constant question: geez, does it ever stop? i'd like, just for one day, to stop thinking 'why do i do so little for others and so much for myself?' which only makes me feel worse. (sure, perhaps another subject entirely, possibly not.) most days, i'm the greatest person around (not most days, most minutes), but it tends to get me thinking 'ok, you've got to be a sociopath to think you're entitled to treat people the way you do.' and 'why don't you do more..' ect, ect....
oh, years of therapy and i stil haven't figured it out. i do love myself. hell, i'm pretty much the best person i know (well, you're pretty high up there in my book right now you know, but still i am rather fond of myself.), yet at the same time, i see so many others doing so much adn it gets me thinking...
and is it ever possible to know the harm done, really though? i guess i'll only know when my duckie's old enough to be telling me 'well, my therapist said.....' or when ' the verdict read in the first degree I hollered lordy lordy have a mercy on me' (sorry, johnny cash fan? at least a cocaine fan?)
please do entice me to propose. i'm rather fond of a broken heart, i must say!
and have a great day.
fondly,
kk
Posted by MCK on May 3, 2007, at 13:29:50
In reply to what's the harm in asking though? cocaine trigger » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 3, 2007, at 7:45:36
> and is it ever possible to know the harm done, really though? i guess i'll only know when my duckie's old enough to be telling me 'well, my therapist said.....'You got a smile out of me there, it doesn't happen often.
After I wrote the post and was thinking about it, (yes I do obsess too) I thought "How is one to know if harm done doesn't result in being help done, sometimes people learn through negative experience and perhaps saves them from a worse experience" and so it goes. I suspect we're both on the same carousel as far as analysis is concerned.
Posted by MCK on May 3, 2007, at 13:51:52
In reply to Re: Another View, posted by verne on May 3, 2007, at 1:10:28
> Would you tell someone, in real life, their view of another person was "wrong", that they should see the person in a more "complex" situation, and then suggest the object of their admiration may be a sociopath?
>I said that I did not want to pursue this as it serves no purpose to anyone. Perhaps that did not stand out to you as a summation of what you have just said.
My response is to clarify (something I wish I did not have to do, as saying it once should have been enough) I was not suggesting the "object of admiration" was a sociopath, I said the following:
"CASTING ASPERSIONS AT NO ONE IN PARTICULAR"
It may come as a surprise, but I also meant it.I will not respond further, as what I wrote at the beginning of this post I also meant.
I am careful to write what I mean, and become perhaps overly annoyed when some of what I've said is overlooked or dismissed, and from that edit incorrect conclusions and inferences derived.I feel I could type the Greek alphabet and it would be interpreted to mean what you've pre concluded.
Posted by karen_kay on May 4, 2007, at 6:57:43
In reply to Re: what's the harm in asking though? cocaine trigger » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 3, 2007, at 13:29:50
of either my proposal or my sociopath dx?
glad to make you smile.
i think i'm on the right path, as my duckie is almost always smiling. as a child, the only pictures i've found i'm crying in. that has to say something. (at least i know he won't be questioning if he's a sociopath, perhaps he'll just know it?)
at least i'm not the only one questioning motivations, hurt, harm done, what sort of breakfast cereal to eat (oh wait, we didn't discuss that one. i was thinking about feeding my niece).
hey, you know what? i appreciate not being talked down to. or at least not feeling talked down to. i've been 'touchy' lately (extremely). i appreciate you 'playing' along (not that i've been playing with you,you get what i'm saying), but with my meds, they do make me feel extremely dumb and certainly make me act that way (or feel that i act that way).
anywho. i'm always thinking (take for example yesterday. a nice neighbor stopped by and mowed my yard. he mowed a small part of it once before and i wrote him a little thank you note, so i guess he took it upon himself to mow my whole yard while i sat inside, drank beer and watched him, pacing thinking 'i can't even go outside and keep him company because he's on a riding mower and what would i do, walk aroudn beside him?' besides i had company (who couldn't stop staring at him) and i couldn't be rude to my company (and my mother in law). how horrible is that? but, i guess it's his choice, right? guess a thank you note goes a long way?) somehow i'm taking advantage. but, if i don't do it first, someone else will and do it far worse?
oh well, better to be taken by a sweet girl (hey, that's woman) like me than a mean old man who swipes your purse/wallet right out of your hand? at least somehow i convince you it's your own idea?
geez, maybe i do need those antipsychotics the dr keeps suggesting....
Posted by MCK on May 4, 2007, at 13:16:10
In reply to aren't convinced yet? » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 4, 2007, at 6:57:43
> of either my proposal or my sociopath dx?
No. never convinced of anything. I think I'd like it if I could be convinced of something.
>
> glad to make you smile.
>It hurt.
as a child, the only pictures i've found i'm crying in. that has to say something. (at least i know he won't be questioning if he's a sociopath, perhaps he'll just know it?)
>I rarely allowed my picture to be taken, in the ones that were I'm crying too, or about to.
> at least i'm not the only one questioning motivations, hurt, harm done, what sort of breakfast cereal to eat (oh wait, we didn't discuss that one. i was thinking about feeding my niece).
>Sigh, yes. Add the occasional "Maybe we have control over nothing, we think we do but we're only doing our part, some, Judas style, in a preplanned metaphysical dance that will make sense only at the end of time" and that about covers it for me too.
> hey, you know what? i appreciate not being talked down to. or at least not feeling talked down to. i've been 'touchy' lately (extremely). i appreciate you 'playing' along (not that i've been playing with you,you get what i'm saying), but with my meds, they do make me feel extremely dumb and certainly make me act that way (or feel that i act that way).
>I had no inclination to talk down to you, and it was good for this cranky old soldier too. *smiles*
Posted by Gabbi-2 on May 4, 2007, at 13:25:24
In reply to Re: what's the harm in asking though? cocaine trigger » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 3, 2007, at 13:29:50
Pardon my inability to phrase things to your exact liking today : )
This goes wayyyy back, but I've been blocked and am too lazy to back track to the exact post.
If any of your posts were indirectly directly in defense of me, I wanted to let you know that it's not necessary. Appreciated, but not necessary. The only reason I'm even daring to think that (smirk) is because I think you ever so gallantly lept to my defence a long time ago when I was bothered. I can fight my own battles ya know, and this one is a dead non issue, well to call it even that is giving it too much credit.
Posted by MCK on May 4, 2007, at 18:47:08
In reply to Yo MC » MCK, posted by Gabbi-2 on May 4, 2007, at 13:25:24
Gabbi my darlin', one thing I have since learned is that you're well able to handle things in your own Gabbi style. I had been referring to other matters.
TK
Posted by karen_kay on May 7, 2007, at 20:10:22
In reply to Re: aren't convinced yet? » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 4, 2007, at 13:16:10
sorry toph
end triggerha, i almost started out where we left off. that's not me at all. first, i must start off with something else indeed. either to throw you off track, to see if you'll reply back, or jsut to simply say i'm sorry it's taken so long to get back. but, i must warn you, you're gonna (yeah, i say gonna) fall madly in love with me. i must warn you though, i'm happily married. so, before this 'thing' gets out of hand and your face hurts too much from smiling (laughing, and you know what else), you must know that and not get your hopes too high. you can let them get a little high, but not too high.
not that i expect you to fall in love with me, but i really do. see, i wish i could be convinced that i wasn't as great as i think i am (but please don't try to convince me either. although, i must warn, i'll try my hardest to convince you.)
that being said, you still aren't ready to say yes? now listen. i'm not saying we have to actually get married, ok? just think about it, i'll keep trying (hey, the hunt is as fun as the catch) and things will work out as they should...
that's how i figure for having control part too. strange how all that fits in there, huh? cranky old soldier. i always did like em cranky.
Posted by MCK on May 8, 2007, at 15:08:04
In reply to i think i might like you... sorry toph trigger » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 7, 2007, at 20:10:22
. either to throw you off track, to see if you'll reply back, or jsut to simply say i'm sorry it's taken so long to get back.
It's fine, I have several online friends a mickey of vodka and three emergency packs of Gaulois to get me through the waiting period.
but, i must warn you, you're gonna (yeah, i say gonna) fall madly in love with me. i must warn you though, i'm happily married. so, before this 'thing' gets out of hand and your face hurts too much from smiling (laughing, and you know what else), you must know that and not get your hopes too high. you can let them get a little high, but not too high.
>
> not that i expect you to fall in love with me, but i really do. see, i wish i could be convinced that i wasn't as great as i think i am (but please don't try to convince me either. although, i must warn, i'll try my hardest to convince you.)
>
> that being said, you still aren't ready to say yes? now listen. i'm not saying we have to actually get married, ok? just think about it, i'll keep trying (hey, the hunt is as fun as the catch) and things will work out as they should...
>You needn't do that, I find your conversation alone of enough interest.
Posted by karen_kay on May 9, 2007, at 6:14:34
In reply to Re: i think i might like you... sorry toph trigger » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 8, 2007, at 15:08:04
and i haven't a clue what Gaulois is. and yes, i pasted that in there. what is it? i even had to translate pages, still with no results.
so, i take it you're not from the us. (kk should have been on scooby do. she's a mystery solver, you know? only much better looking than that red head, what's her name? oh, it's daphne. see, a mystery solver right there.)
and you want to here conversation, i could go on and on all day. i took my duck to, what i thought was a twelve month (twelve month!!!!!!) dr apt and he got shots. poor baby. they tricked us. he cried and had the most horrible look on his face (a look like 'mom, you horrible person, why are these people holding me down and why are you holding your hadns over your face? come save me! what's wrong with you?) oh, it hurt me worse than him. ok, maybe it hurt him worse. i don't recall how much shots hurt, but he screamed a whole lot.)
so now i'm stuck wondering, 'will he hold this against me forever as well?' i doubt it. of course, if he got measle, mumps, ruebella (it'd be nice if i spelled all that right on my own) he could hold all that against me for sure, but this, no way.
but, what i really worry about is one day, when he's older, he'l stumble across an outdated website called dr bob, read posts by karen_kay and think 'geez mom. i can't believe you.' that's something i fear more than most. this poor kid is doomed.
oh, sorry about all the kid talk. i just want him to be jsut like me. but, i want to have nothing to do with him being just like me. is that at all possible? (see, i told you i was a sociopath. or a narcisist. i do have a rather high opinion of myself. but, that little duck is quite a bit like his mom already. mr kk called him 'creepy' the other day. i thought it was because he only had 5 teeth and said 'that's not very nice'. mr kk reminded me that the duck was creepy because he looks just like me. that's very acceptable.
you don't talk much about your life, other than your internet buddies, your constant evaluation, and your reluctance to smile. i believe there's a song that's brought to mind. 'i'd like to get to know you....'
have a great day
MCK
i woke up
and i feel gay
(in a good way) -not that there's a bad way, i jsut had lots of sleep last night and hit the snooze button for over an hour, as i set my alarm an hour early.take care soldier,
kk
Posted by scratchpad on May 9, 2007, at 16:42:12
In reply to i searched and searched » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 9, 2007, at 6:14:34
> and i haven't a clue what Gaulois is. and yes, i pasted that in there. what is it? i even had to translate pages, still with no results.
>I believe that they are a brand of French cigarettes.
Oui?sp
Posted by MCK on May 9, 2007, at 17:24:44
In reply to Re: i searched and searched » karen_kay, posted by scratchpad on May 9, 2007, at 16:42:12
Yes they are French cigarrettes.
In truth I gave them up long ago, along with my black wardrobe and perpetual use of "oh, the irony"
Posted by karen_kay on May 9, 2007, at 18:16:32
In reply to Re: i searched and searched, posted by MCK on May 9, 2007, at 17:24:44
that i smoke 3 packs a day, list rj reynolds as my number one reason to live most times and i didn't know you were speaking of smokes.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on May 10, 2007, at 9:50:02
In reply to oh, the irony... » MCK, posted by karen_kay on May 9, 2007, at 18:16:32
KK you may be spending a lot of time on my balcony.
allergic to ciggies.
achoooo then flu
-Ll
p.s. did I tell you that you actually more of a linear thinker than I thought? I thought you were one of those rare humans that could do parallel processing while posting and typing.
p.p.s. happy thursday
Posted by karen_kay on May 10, 2007, at 10:12:48
In reply to Re: oh, the irony... » karen_kay, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on May 10, 2007, at 9:50:02
i'm jsut kiddin...
i swear, i don't think i ever type 'just' correctly. except that one time..
anyway. what? a linear thinker? processing while posting? what do you mean? what made you think that? and what makes you think otherwise now?
geez, i wish i didn't ask so many questions. i was going to make an assumption, but i'm trying hard not to. i really hate doubt...
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on May 10, 2007, at 10:51:25
In reply to are you calling me stupid? » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by karen_kay on May 10, 2007, at 10:12:48
Oh definitely not stupid.
For instance your posts contain a multitude of very diverse ideas all knitted into a coherent whole, or sometimes a little scattered. you know what I mean, I think?
Posted by karen_kay on May 10, 2007, at 11:01:19
In reply to Re: are you calling me stupid? » karen_kay, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on May 10, 2007, at 10:51:25
it happens by chance every time.
i haven't a clue how either. maybe i was someone really really smart in a former life ;) i like to tell myself that, especially when i'm feeling not so smart.
i notice that too. odd thing, isn't it? i just read them, talk about myself and hope they come together somehow. sometimes i'm pleasantly surprised. othertimes i'm left thinking 'dear god, can i blame that on my meds?' and of course, i can blame anything on my meds! that's the joy of meds, and that's the reason i have so many typos, i don't proof read :) why bother? if it pops in my head and out my fingers, there's got to be a reason, right?
strange thing though, why are my typing skills so much better in chat? or is it my imagination? (so, this post was just a clusterf@ck, right?)
bye bye li,
kk
Posted by karen_kay on June 17, 2007, at 19:34:42
In reply to Re: i think i might like you... sorry toph trigger » karen_kay, posted by MCK on May 8, 2007, at 15:08:04
i suppose you'll have to test my memory, eh?
i'll be looking for you though, to pick back up where we left off dear.
promise, i won't forget.
and i won't let me down, i won't let me down!
missed you though, in advance. and a big welcome back, for when you do (you better).
see you in a while (and with this blasted memory, i've already forgotten how long you're blocked).
kk
This is the end of the thread.
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