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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Larry Hoover on April 1, 2007, at 8:41:52
In reply to I was scammed by the nail salon, posted by Deneb on April 1, 2007, at 0:42:17
Wowzers! I had no idea what went on in those places. I wouldn't work with some of those chemicals anywhere other than in a fume hood. For non-chemists, that is an enclosure with massive negative air pressure, sucking fumes one way.....away from the vulnerable human.
With reference to your subject heading, I'm afraid you got what you paid for.
> Several things were amiss and I didn't say anything.
>
> I thought it was weird that the nail technician filed my natural nails with a drill. I should have said something. Apparently the natural nail is never supposed to be filed down.The surface needs to be roughened, to improve bonding. Using a dental drill is a cheap, high-speed alternative to labour-intensive filing. The risk is that too much nail will be removed with the drill bit.
> I wanted gel nails but the technician used a brush wet with some liquid dipped in a powder. It was not a gel. I now suspect it was MMA (Methyl methacrylate).Was there a potent odor? I suspect you are correct.
> What should I do? Should I report them to Health Canada? I feel like I should do the right thing.If there is an advisory in place, then yes, you should. You have a background in chemistry, and your suspicions are well-founded.
> I can't be 100% sure it was MMA and not EMA (called ethyl methacrylate at 6X the price of MMA), but I highly suspect it was MMA.
You are not a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer. Leave that determination to Health Canada scientists.
> I wonder if the nail techs know about the toxic substance they are using? They're exposed to it everyday.
>
> Deneb*I am apalled at what I learned from reading the article you quoted. Methacrylates are believed to be responsible for the dermal sensitization reactions that plague trandsermal drug delivery systems (see Emsam thread, above). I could only imagine what happens in the lungs on prolonged, repeated exposure. These places should be shut down.
This, in the name of "beautification"? Just for the record, I find anything but the simplest of nail treatments to detract from beauty, or even to repulse me. Fake. Think about it.
Lar
Posted by Dinah on April 1, 2007, at 10:01:27
In reply to I was scammed by the nail salon, posted by Deneb on April 1, 2007, at 0:42:17
I'm terrified of nail salons since reading of various sanitary concerns. I'm not sure how much of that is my OCD, and how much of it is real.
I hear a lot of people around here bring their own supplies. I'm not sure if that's a nationwide trend.
Of course, now my fears have spread to hair salons, and you can't exactly do without them. I guess I shouldn't think so much about things. If I thought about anything at all too much, I'd never do anything or go anywhere.
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2007, at 11:50:26
In reply to Re: I was scammed by the nail salon » Deneb, posted by Dinah on April 1, 2007, at 10:01:27
I just file and put nail polish on myself. Love Phillipa
Posted by Racer on April 1, 2007, at 15:58:27
In reply to Re: I was scammed by the nail salon » Deneb, posted by Dinah on April 1, 2007, at 10:01:27
>
> Of course, now my fears have spread to hair salons, and you can't exactly do without them.I did, for many years. Every time I clipped my horse, I'd have someone run the clippers along my own head. That was my semi-annual haircut. "Just clip it to about shoulder length..."
Now, though, my husband won't let me use horse clippers on either of us. I had to buy another set of clippers to cut his hair. And he won't cut mine at all.
But you're right. Don't think about anything too much. It'll only lead to madness...
Posted by Deneb on April 1, 2007, at 18:50:00
In reply to Re: I was scammed by the nail salon » Deneb, posted by Larry Hoover on April 1, 2007, at 8:41:52
> Wowzers! I had no idea what went on in those places. I wouldn't work with some of those chemicals anywhere other than in a fume hood. For non-chemists, that is an enclosure with massive negative air pressure, sucking fumes one way.....away from the vulnerable human.
>
> With reference to your subject heading, I'm afraid you got what you paid for.
>
> > Several things were amiss and I didn't say anything.
> >
> > I thought it was weird that the nail technician filed my natural nails with a drill. I should have said something. Apparently the natural nail is never supposed to be filed down.
>
> The surface needs to be roughened, to improve bonding. Using a dental drill is a cheap, high-speed alternative to labour-intensive filing. The risk is that too much nail will be removed with the drill bit.I'd never had my nails done before so I didn't know what to expect. I should have done my research, but I'm just too trusting. I'm lucky nothing bad happened. I didn't see them following using sterile techniques. I'm never going to a cheap nail salon again. I could have gotten a fungal infection or hepatitis or something.
>
> > I wanted gel nails but the technician used a brush wet with some liquid dipped in a powder. It was not a gel. I now suspect it was MMA (Methyl methacrylate).
>
> Was there a potent odor? I suspect you are correct.The nail technicians wore masks, but I'm sure they didn't protect them from the fumes. I didn't really notice a potent odor, but maybe I just wasn't noticing things.
>
> > What should I do? Should I report them to Health Canada? I feel like I should do the right thing.
>
> If there is an advisory in place, then yes, you should. You have a background in chemistry, and your suspicions are well-founded.Thanks Lar. I will report my suspicions.
>
> > I can't be 100% sure it was MMA and not EMA (called ethyl methacrylate at 6X the price of MMA), but I highly suspect it was MMA.
>
> You are not a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer. Leave that determination to Health Canada scientists.
>
> > I wonder if the nail techs know about the toxic substance they are using? They're exposed to it everyday.
> >
> > Deneb*
>
> I am apalled at what I learned from reading the article you quoted. Methacrylates are believed to be responsible for the dermal sensitization reactions that plague trandsermal drug delivery systems (see Emsam thread, above). I could only imagine what happens in the lungs on prolonged, repeated exposure. These places should be shut down.The polymerized arcylates are safe right? It's only the liquid monomer that's toxic right?
>
> This, in the name of "beautification"? Just for the record, I find anything but the simplest of nail treatments to detract from beauty, or even to repulse me. Fake. Think about it.
>
> LarYeah, getting fake nails is not something I normally do. This was the first time I've ever gotten my nails done. I just wanted to try something new. I'm glad I like to do research on things I don't know about. Now I imagine all those people who get their nails refilled every two weeks. Yikes.
Deneb*
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 1, 2007, at 19:25:04
In reply to Re: I was scammed by the nail salon » Larry Hoover, posted by Deneb on April 1, 2007, at 18:50:00
> The polymerized arcylates are safe right? It's only the liquid monomer that's toxic right?
Right, but, polymerization is very unlikely to be complete under these circumstances. Plexiglas/Lucite is an methyl methacrylic polymer, but it is produced at temps around 250 C.
Lar
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:21:18
In reply to I was scammed by the nail salon, posted by Deneb on April 1, 2007, at 0:42:17
Deneb - there'd be nothing wrong with notifying the authorities of your concerns. It's not as though you have to prove anything.
Also, there'd be nothing wrong with giving a copy of the warning information to the person who did your nails.
I just posted to Fivefires about using baking soda instead of chemicals for cleaning. I 'ranted' a bit there about the chemicals we're exposed to in body care products.
take care Deneb
luv, Kath
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:56
In reply to So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Deneb, posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:21:18
Oh Kate I think I've found a fellow soulmate!!
I'd actually prefer not to use any chemicals! And my, the things they put in body care products! I actually only use super-natural products which list everything, and its usually just 'normal' stuff like sunflower oil, or coconut oil or Celendular not artifical man made chemicals.
I don't use deodorant either - contrary to popular belief, I don't smell! Its such an urban myth. The more deodorant you use, the more you need to use it - and I bet most people seriously don't need it one bit if they let their body do its natural thing.
Anyway, I've love not to shampoo (even through the stuff I use is 'natural' - it still doesn't feel right. What did people use before shampoo?
Meri
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 14:01:53
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Kath, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:56
Hmmmmmm - I wonder what they did use??
more another time.
luv, Kath
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2007, at 14:03:14
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Kath, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:56
> Anyway, I've love not to shampoo (even through the stuff I use is 'natural' - it still doesn't feel right. What did people use before shampoo?
>
> MeriIf I remember my history correctly, they wore large wigs and kept small dogs with them to draw the fleas off. :)
Seriously, I believe my mother's family, which was rather poor, used the same homemade soap they used to clean everything, which to her memory far harsher than anything we use today. Natural isn't necessarily more gentle.
Posted by philyra on April 2, 2007, at 14:16:31
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Kath, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:56
supposedly if you go without shampoo & conditioner, just rinsing your hair well with warm water, it eventually will not need any soap whatsoever. i had a friend in college who conducted this experiment and said that after a few weeks her hair was silky soft and needed no shampoo to wash. i've never been brave enough to try it, but i still want to!
take care,
philyra
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 16:48:40
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Meri-Tuuli, posted by philyra on April 2, 2007, at 14:16:31
I agree as to the harshness of some older items. Wasn't lye an ingredient of old-time soaps?
On the other hand, unfortunately, these days, there are ingredients in various personal care products that are carcinogenic. I used to know a site that listed things. I remember sodium laurel sulphate (in most shampoos) being problematic; in fact I'm pretty sure it was linked with lowered sperm count...I remember years ago thinking of my son when I read that.
As to just rinsing our hair....I can believe it about the actual hair, but I wonder about our scalps & the oiliness. If I'm feeling really down & my hair isn't getting washed very often as a result :-(( my scalp gets an oily smell.
Then I know ........OK Kath; you're not doing great!!
I'd be interested to know how the friend who just rinsed their hair found their scalp was??
:-) Kath
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2007, at 19:47:07
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to, posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 16:48:40
I don't feel clean unless I shampoo and condition daily and my scalp itches if I skip a day and no dandruff. Love Phillipa ps I try to use natural products clarins shampoo and some schunchy stuff from Hawaii with natural ingrediants. Love Phillipa
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2007, at 10:19:17
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Kath, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:56
If I don't use deoderant, believe me, I smell by lunchtime! So its not an urban myth at all.
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2007, at 10:24:16
In reply to I was scammed by the nail salon, posted by Deneb on April 1, 2007, at 0:42:17
Just to put your mind at rest..
I used to use false nails, and have regular manicures (before stopping biting my nails I used false ones for special occasions.. and then had regular manicures after stopping biting them as a treat!)
When ever I had false ones they files my nails using the electric file.. and they also had to "roughen" up the top of the nail to make the false one adhere better.
I also had gel ones and they used a powder paste with brushes on them.
i finally realised that false nails look stupid on me though *L* so I just file and buff my nails at home now and keep them short as they're way too weak to grow any longer!
Nikki
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 3, 2007, at 10:32:16
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Meri-Tuuli, posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2007, at 10:19:17
Yes, that might be the initial phase, but I bet if you went for several weeks at least, your body would go back to natural ways, and you wouldn't smell at all. Seriously! Oh well.
Its funny how people freak out when they hear that I don't wear deodorant, and haven't for many years now - they'd never have guessed. Or smelt, should I say.
It seriously is the case that once you break the cycle and stop using it, you don't need it. This may take some weeks, but you get there.
Its like the more you use deodorant, the more you need to use it, the more you sweat.... oh well. I can see that i'm very clearly in the minority here.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2007, at 11:24:15
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » NikkiT2, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 3, 2007, at 10:32:16
I have gone without using it.. But, I sweat and sweat ~does~ smell when the microbes are able to grow. I tend to sweat fairly heavily and so I guess more microbes grow.
I went 6 weeks without it a few years ago when I was able to wash (using no detergents, just rain water) three times a day.. I use all organic products at home, with very few chemicals in them, but I'm afraid I ~do~ need to us ean anti persperant.
Also, when I was 15 a group of us did the "not hair washing" thing. After about 6 weeks (of hell) our hair did stop being greasy. But it smelt awful *lol*
Nikki
Posted by Deneb on April 3, 2007, at 11:42:30
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » NikkiT2, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 3, 2007, at 10:32:16
You're not alone Meri. I don't use deodorant or anti-perspirant except on rare occasions, neither does anyone in my family. We don't smell. I only smell if I don't take a shower for a long time and do exercise and then sleep. That happened once while I was camping.
Deneb*
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 3, 2007, at 13:04:22
In reply to Re: Deodorant, posted by Deneb on April 3, 2007, at 11:42:30
Oh thats cool Deneb. I didn't know there was anyone else out there! I suppose its not the sort of thing you mention!!
Are there any specific reasons why you don't use it? That that you have to have any, I'm just curious.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Kath on April 3, 2007, at 19:44:06
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Meri-Tuuli, posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2007, at 10:19:17
I use a salt stick...it's a wind up thing. You wet it & rub it under your arms. The first few days I used it, I did end up being stinky! After a few days it was working fine. When I was camping, I didn't use it for several days & it had a delayed positive action!! I didn't smell!!!
Me too, Nikki - apart from the salk stick, I do smell if I don't wear deodorant.
BUT the salt stick is great. And it has lasted me for about 3 years & isn't even 1/4 gone!
Kath
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2007, at 19:48:02
In reply to Salt deodorants, posted by Kath on April 3, 2007, at 19:44:06
Do you have a brand name on that? I can't use antiperspirants because they cause me to get those bumps under my arms.
Of course, sometimes with my diabetes my underarm yeast infection gets bad enough that my skin gets irritated and I have to use Neosporin. Which works pretty well as an antiperspirant.
It would be interesting to see how a salt deodorant worked with all those other factors.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 3, 2007, at 20:11:04
In reply to Salt deodorants, posted by Kath on April 3, 2007, at 19:44:06
But Kath.....would horses then want to walk up and lick me under my arms?!!
'cause that might tickle, and be a bit slobbery, at the very least.....
<grin>
Posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2007, at 21:16:29
In reply to Re: Salt deodorants » Kath, posted by 10derHeart on April 3, 2007, at 20:11:04
Seriously Kath is right as my husband has this hard deodorant stick from the health food store lasts for years. And he doesn't stink and it's not sticky have used it too. Love Phillipa
Posted by Kath on April 3, 2007, at 21:17:41
In reply to Re: So many chemicals that we're exposed to » Meri-Tuuli, posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2007, at 11:24:15
Nikki - did your hair eventually stop smelling? I wonder about the scalp.
Have you ever tried the salt deodorant? I totally swear by it.
hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on April 3, 2007, at 21:19:34
In reply to Re: Salt deodorants » Kath, posted by 10derHeart on April 3, 2007, at 20:11:04
Jeez - I never thot of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guard your armpits; the horses are coming!!
LOL
K
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