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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Toph on May 8, 2005, at 12:57:37
My brother and I took my mom out for a Mother's Day brunch. She's 75 years old and as I watched her reminisce at the table I began to have morbid thoughts about how I probably have a diminishing number of times to tell her I love her. Then I began wondering why it was so hard to tell her I love her. It dawned on me that while I love many people in my life intensely, but for whatever reason it is easier to tell this to some than others. Here's my list from easiest to hardest.
-It's easiest for me to tell my dog I love him maybe because he tells me every chance he gets.
-Next, it's easy to tell my girls that I love them (even my step-daughter) because they usually say it first.
-Then it's the wife. We say I love you ritualistically when we part for work and now I'm saying it again before we go to sleep.
-Then my son. It's a male thing in our family to not show affection to each other so as not to look weak or something. My dad is 80 and he is beginning to hug us now awkwardly. But he can't say I love you. Me neither.
- Then comes my mom. For whatever reason I seemed to have doubts that her words of affection were genuine. We all knew she loved my older brother best. I attempted to prove this theory by rejecting her passionately as an adolescent. She never gave up on me though, even when I started getting ill.
-My dad (see above).
-Myself. I have never been able to say to myself that I love me. It seems a little late to start now.
Posted by TamaraJ on May 8, 2005, at 17:28:02
In reply to I Love You, posted by Toph on May 8, 2005, at 12:57:37
Growing up, my brothers and I rarely heard the words "I Love You". It didn't really bother me, and it still doesn't, but I find it awkward to say it even when I really, really feel it. I don't know, but saying it somehow makes me feel vulnerable, and I don't like feeling that way. I can love with all my heart, and show it in so many ways, but saying it out loud can be scary. The hug thing is also something my family is not big on. I guess the whole affection thing is not something I grew up knowing, probably because my parents were so wrapped up in fighting with each and the animosity that grew out of a relationship that should have never been or should have never lasted, that they were too emotionally exhausted to show affection to my brothers and I. Oh well, no big deal. My best friend's family have always been really affectionate, and when I first starting spending time (holidays, vacations, etc.) with his family, I realized what I had been missing. It was so nice to go over there and be hugged and told I was loved. Oh, and like you, I have no problem telling my dog I love her. That's it in a nutshell, I guess.
Posted by jay on May 8, 2005, at 17:33:39
In reply to I Love You, posted by Toph on May 8, 2005, at 12:57:37
Toph,
OK...from my experience as a social worker, especially in Hospital settings, it is only when it is almost 'too late' to tell someone you love them. For some reason, we feel weird about using the word. Maybe it is it's power...but our relationships are pretty powerful too.
So, my advice is, start with your dog, and imagine he is the person you say you want to love, and script it out, trying a few different approaches. Even if you just mumble it the first few times, you will get used of it and become more bold in saying it. Life is waaaayyy too short to not express this with words. (And I am sure you do it in other ways too.)
Good luck...let me know what you think...and hopefully after you tried it.
Best,
Jay
Posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 7:13:50
In reply to Re: I Love You » Toph, posted by TamaraJ on May 8, 2005, at 17:28:02
Are you my sister posting as TamaraJ?
Posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 7:26:34
In reply to Re: I Love You » Toph, posted by jay on May 8, 2005, at 17:33:39
Good advice Jay. My mom cleverly developed a system so that we could verbalize affection for each other. When I was young she would say "91225" (I is the 9th letter in the alphabet; 12 is L; 25=Y), I would say "91225, too." None of my brothers or sisters ever figured it out, although my mom might have told them not to let on.
Then there was Audra, my step-daughter. My daughter Sarah was so sensitive to me showing any affection towards Audra as if I were abandonimg her that I was reluctant to telling Audra how much I loved her. Now that they are older I tell them both equally. I'm afraid the damage has been done, as Audra is somewhat skeptical of these displays. You're right though Jay, time is too short not to put aside any reservations and let those you love exactly how you feel. It's sad when it comes out at the funeral for the first time.
Posted by AdaGrace on May 9, 2005, at 9:19:36
In reply to I Love You, posted by Toph on May 8, 2005, at 12:57:37
My Order of I Love You's from easiest to hardest
My children, they are my life.
My dog, she is the love of my life.
My siblings, they have become my friends.
My friends, they have become my saviors.
My husband..He expects it as a reply to his, so it's rote.
My father....He never says it, and neither do I.
Myself, would never even think it, much less say it.
Posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 9:23:08
In reply to Re: I Love You » Toph, posted by AdaGrace on May 9, 2005, at 9:19:36
Oh, I see, so you are my sister posting as Gracie!
Posted by sunny10 on May 9, 2005, at 9:26:06
In reply to Re: I Love You, posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 7:26:34
I've never really figured out which is worse.
To love someone and not use words to tell them; only actions.
Or to SAY you love someone; but your actions are counter-indicative.
..............
What are words, anyway?
I DO kind of get what Jay was saying about it being power, though.
Do people use "the power" for good, or evil, though?
Ooooh, guess I should talk to my new T about how strange it is that this innocent post triggered me like it did...
Fodder for new T- thanks, guys!!!
I sometimes feel like if I could ever think of anything to a T about that MEANS anything, I might start to feel better about myself.
CBT has always felt like "so what have you done for the last week?" "How did you cope?", instead of "how did you feel about that?"...
Hopefully this T will be different... sigh...
Posted by AdaGrace on May 9, 2005, at 9:30:22
In reply to Re: I Love You » AdaGrace, posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 9:23:08
Oh, now see there, you have gone and ruined a good fantasy I was having about you...Now I'm your sister.......Ewww
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 13:04:57
In reply to I Love You, posted by Toph on May 8, 2005, at 12:57:37
You are such a thoughtful man.
Your dad was in your list twice, I have a theory about that. Hmm. Okay is it possible that you're seeing the link between your dad, yourself and your son, and you as being the one with the ability to change it, I mean, why would your dad come up twice, unless he's affected you and that's affecting your son now? 'Cause not all dads have trouble telling their sons they love them. No. And you sure don't seem like the type of man who would have trouble telling anybody you do love them, if you do. Why're you stopping yourself so much?
Posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 17:28:16
In reply to Re: I Love You » Toph, posted by AdaGrace on May 9, 2005, at 9:30:22
Come on Gracie, you know I'm not your brother. Conjure up that fantasy again. Maybe I'll catch the vibe in my dreams tonight.
Posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 17:50:47
In reply to Re: I Love You » Toph, posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 13:04:57
> You are such a thoughtful man.
> Your dad was in your list twice, I have a theory about that. Hmm. Okay is it possible that you're seeing the link between your dad, yourself and your son, and you as being the one with the ability to change it, I mean, why would your dad come up twice, unless he's affected you and that's affecting your son now? 'Cause not all dads have trouble telling their sons they love them. No. And you sure don't seem like the type of man who would have trouble telling anybody you do love them, if you do. Why're you stopping yourself so much?Nailed me again susan. My father is a wonderful man, a great provider, with impeccable integrity. His idea of loving us was to work his *ss off so that we would have opportunities in life. He went to as many football, baseball games, swim meets, music concerts he could attend when he wasn't on the road working. But he never so much as put an arm around us, let alone hugged us or, God forbid, say that he loved us. I don't know if I inherited my bipolar from him but I did get a worse disease. He gave me Inhibited Displays of Affection Syndrome. I hug my clients more than my family. And yes, susan, my son is getting the disease from me too. I went to every one of his high school baseball games even if I had to sneek away from work. But I hate myself for all the opportunnities I lost to tell him I love him. I am better at it now. It is sick that I should not be able to easily tell someone who I would die for exactly how I feel. I'm afraid that it has something to do with doubts I have deep down that I am unworthy of being loved. I wish you could tell my dad and Matthew how much I love them for me, before it's too late.
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 18:44:31
In reply to Re: I Love You » Susan47, posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 17:50:47
I understand.
I was the same way.
But now I know this, Toph, and you know it too: there is no love greater than that of a child to his parent, and because of that love, we can get away with murder, and many parents do, you know that. And in your love for your son, you also see yourself, your failed self.. no, that's me. In my love for my chilren. No. I'm going to use "you" okay because it feels more poetic, and more right to me, but know that I'm really talking about my own experience, when I say this Toph. Looking at your son you see more than one thing. You see someone you love deeply, but you also see that you are in him, and because of that you know your love isn't as deep for him as it could be, because you haven't yet loved and accepted yourself. Because you're still mad at your Dad for not loving you properly, and you know that you're part of Him, and as long as you're mad at part of him you're going to be mad at the part of you that comes from him ...
Whatever.
You get me, right?
And it's as easy as this; let him love you. Just let him. You've loved him from birth, and the seed was planted by you. You have to learn to sit back and enjoy the fruit from that planting, the love planting ... don't be impatient with your kids. That's one of my biggest lessons to learn. When I showed I had every confidence my daughter could do anything, when I really believed it in my heart because I really believed that I could as well, that's when she suddenly bloomed.
We worry too much about our own flaws, and we forget about the beauty of our children's love. They look up to us for everything, absolutely everything, for a long time. We have to learn to enjoy that, and feel honoured, because soon they're adults too and the way they remember us is extremely important. We don't have to be perfect but we definitely have to be honest.
And if we don't like ourselves, they're going to learn not to like themselves.
I'll bet your Dad doesn't like who he was either. Well, maybe he's like mine, maybe he wouldn't change a thing. I don't know. Sigh.
Posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 19:14:29
In reply to Re: I Love You, posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 18:44:31
Yeah, I know. It's not a real narcissistic reflection. We are not intranced with our perceived perfection, rather we get fixated on our children's flaws that we see in ourselves. I don't know how I could have been a better parent without also having been healthier mentally. As it is, they turned out OK.
I bet your daughter is pretty cool like her mom, susan.
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 20:30:57
In reply to Re: Love » Susan47, posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 19:14:29
Gee thanks. I'm worried because my son is starting to get called "weird" at school, at least that's what he says. I'm worried because he might be reflecting me. Any ideas? Because I'm thinking, how do I know if I'm influencing the way his friends see him? It's a good thing I'll be kind of busier for awhile. Less chance to be seen at school, I guess. Is it me, or isn't it me? Or is it some trait, he's a lot like me in a lot of ways, I think you know, that that's really it. He's showing behavioural nervous things maybe. Like picking his nose. He would just pick at the skin under his nostril until it bled, he had a wound under his nose for ages. And he bites his bottom lip until it's really sore, the skin underneath it. I wish I could make him better, this type of thing literally is giving me nightmares. It's like I'm a kid again, I dream always of being a kid and having all these awful flaws that separated me from other kids. I was always separate and alone.
Posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 20:51:38
In reply to Re: Love, posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 20:30:57
I'm sorry your son is having a tough time. I had hives as a kid and wasn't allergic to anything. Had to be nerves. Reassure him tonight that you love him and that the world is a very big place filled with all sorts of people. It's not like school where the cool kids rule. In the real world there's a place and a friend for everyone.
Posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:38:00
In reply to Re: Love » Susan47, posted by Toph on May 9, 2005, at 20:51:38
Hives are terrible. I had them a few years ago, they drove me crazy, red welts always from the waist to ankle.
I have this skin condition that makes my skin look very different, and as a kid it was very obvious, it's not as bad now but still, kind of transparent.. when I was a kid I was very dark and had a lot of odd pigmentation, so I was obviously different, combined with my volatile family it wasn't hard to pick on me. I was the sensitive one, I learned to stay hidden. But if I hadn't had my family, I would've been all right. Because really, there was nothing that couldn't have been overcome if I'd been confident. I think that's why confidence means so much to me, now, why I'm trying to give it to my kids, and it really sucks when their "friends" deprive them of it by saying mean things. Kids can be so base, so mean, so like their parents. I look at the kids who're saying the worst things to my son, and I look at their parents, and I can see where it's coming from. I'm glad my son tells me these things. I can help him only when I know. Thanks, Toph, you helped me work this through. (Sigh) Why can't it all be easier?
This is the end of the thread.
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