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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shy_Girl on March 9, 2005, at 17:27:01
I must admit that I'm a little angry about being sent to the hospital against my will for my non-lethal overdose. I specifically did not give consent. Can doctors do this? I guess they err on the side of caution and would rather be sued for assault than negligance.
Then, when I unplugged myself from the monitor and took out my IV and tried to leave, the nurse threatened to put me in restraints if I tried to leave again!! Can they do that??
One pdoc told me that I was lucky and that people have died taking the amount of ASA I did, but then my regular pdoc said I could not have died. Isn't it unethical for doctors to lie?
It seems awefully easy for a pdoc to involuntarity hold someone for an assessment. I wasn't given a copy of the mental health act to read when I requested it, nor was I given access to a lawyer.
It was soooo boring there...wouldn't the sane become 'insane'?? I'm sure I got worst there and the pdoc who put me there made the wrong call. I wasn't able to sleep a wink at the hospital without Ativan and I don't normally have sleep problems! People ignored me and it was so lonely and scary...with all the 'code whites' and checks and such during the night.
Am I alone in thinking that hospitalization may not be the answer for everyone in a crisis? How has it been helpful for other people? How exactly was it helpful?
Posted by Susan47 on March 9, 2005, at 20:14:30
In reply to Benefits vs. Harm from hospitalization, posted by Shy_Girl on March 9, 2005, at 17:27:01
Talking from this side of the fence I'd say you got treated well. You were cared about, and you seem p.o.'d about that. I'm glad to say that makes no sense to me and I hope I misunderstood.
Posted by Shy_Girl on March 9, 2005, at 21:41:08
In reply to Re: Benefits vs. Harm from hospitalization, posted by Susan47 on March 9, 2005, at 20:14:30
> Talking from this side of the fence I'd say you got treated well. You were cared about, and you seem p.o.'d about that. I'm glad to say that makes no sense to me and I hope I misunderstood.
I'm sorry if you've been treated poorly in the past. I have no basis for comparison because I've never ever been to the hospital before a couple of weeks ago (not even for a minor injury). I'm feel no anger towards the people who interacted with me, I'm sure they felt like they were doing the best they could. I supposed I should have replaced the word 'anger' with 'confusion'. I just know that from a ethics point of view, a competent adult has the right to refuse even life saving treatment. In my case they suspected mental illness, therefore I must have been deemed temporarily unable to make an informed decision about treatment refusal...which typically requires a greater degree of competency than simply consenting to treatment.
I also understand that the point of the hospitalization was not to be theraputic, but rather as an assessment...that may have explained why I did not feel very welcome. It also didn't help that it was the weekend and resources were more limited.
The outcome of the stay is inconclusive. I suggest that the stay may have exacerbated my school problems and therefore initiated suicidal ideations.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 22:30:37
In reply to Benefits vs. Harm from hospitalization, posted by Shy_Girl on March 9, 2005, at 17:27:01
> I must admit that I'm a little angry about being sent to the hospital against my will for my non-lethal overdose. I specifically did not give consent. Can doctors do this? I guess they err on the side of caution and would rather be sued for assault than negligance.
They can indeed do that. If they consider you to be at risk of harming yourself or another person then they can indeed.
My guess would be that they wanted to assess whether you were likely to try to hurt yourself again. Also to assess whether you intended to hurt yourself or to die specifically.
Why?
Because in most cases suicide is a permanant solution to a temporary problem.
In most cases where suicide is prevented people go on to be grateful that they had failed (eventually, to be sure).
In most cases there are medications / therapies etc that can assist people so that they no longer want to harm / hurt themselves.My guess would be that they were trying to help you.
> Then, when I unplugged myself from the monitor and took out my IV and tried to leave, the nurse threatened to put me in restraints if I tried to leave again!! Can they do that??If you are under the mental health act for compulsory assessment and treatment then it is compulsory to be assessed and treated, yes. If restraints are needed then my understanding is so be it.
> One pdoc told me that I was lucky and that people have died taking the amount of ASA I did, but then my regular pdoc said I could not have died. Isn't it unethical for doctors to lie?Maybe people have died taking the amount of ASA you did. Maybe your regular doc just hasn't heard of anyone...
> It seems awefully easy for a pdoc to involuntarity hold someone for an assessment. I wasn't given a copy of the mental health act to read when I requested it, nor was I given access to a lawyer.You should have been given info on your involountary status and an account of your rights etc. At least, that is the case over here. I am from NZ I don't know how different your system is. I guess I am just talking about mine, so I might be off.
> It was soooo boring there...wouldn't the sane become 'insane'?? I'm sure I got worst there and the pdoc who put me there made the wrong call. I wasn't able to sleep a wink at the hospital without Ativan and I don't normally have sleep problems! People ignored me and it was so lonely and scary...with all the 'code whites' and checks and such during the night.
Yeah.
> Am I alone in thinking that hospitalization may not be the answer for everyone in a crisis? How has it been helpful for other people? How exactly was it helpful?It isn't the answer. It is just supposed to be a safe place where you won't harm yourself and where they can check whether you are psychotic or not a danger to others or not a danger to yourself or not and establish you on your meds etc.
I am ambivalent about hospitals.
Mostly you just get ignored.
Sometimes you get lectures and judgement.
Sometimes you get some really terrific nurse
Or some really terrific patients
Who help.
But not often...
Posted by Susan47 on March 10, 2005, at 10:50:18
In reply to Re: Benefits vs. Harm from hospitalization » Susan47, posted by Shy_Girl on March 9, 2005, at 21:41:08
No, I actually haven't been treated poorly in hospital. I was referring more to the standards of care you were receiving. I thought they sounded rather good.
I have a question, did you post how much ASA you took and why? Wasn't it something about wanting to fool the doctor into thinking you were ill so you didn't have to take an exam? Am I right, wrong ...?
Posted by Shy_Girl on March 10, 2005, at 13:08:51
In reply to Re: Benefits vs. Harm from hospitalization » Shy_Girl, posted by Susan47 on March 10, 2005, at 10:50:18
> I have a question, did you post how much ASA you took and why? Wasn't it something about wanting to fool the doctor into thinking you were ill so you didn't have to take an exam? Am I right, wrong ...?Yes, you are correct. I'm not sure whether or not it is appropriate to talk about exactly how much I took because I don't want people to think that taking any overdose is ok. There is a curve of responses to different medications for different people and sometimes a seemingly 'safe' overdose may be harmful if not fatal for a few people who are hypersensitive to the medication. But I digress...getting into the realm of pharmacogenomics.
Anyways, needless to say, I must work on better coping stratagies. Making oneself sick on purpose to get a defferal for exams is NOT the right thing to do. It is much much better to talk to people who can help you cope with the stress and give suggestions for solving the problem.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 10, 2005, at 13:38:35
In reply to Re: Benefits vs. Harm from hospitalization » Susan47, posted by Shy_Girl on March 10, 2005, at 13:08:51
> Anyways, needless to say, I must work on better coping stratagies. Making oneself sick on purpose to get a defferal for exams is NOT the right thing to do. It is much much better to talk to people who can help you cope with the stress and give suggestions for solving the problem.
Yeah. You could probably have gotten a letter from a councellor / psychologist / psychiatrist and you would have been granted an extension on the basis of that rather than having to take an overdose...
This is the end of the thread.
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