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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by gardenergirl on November 20, 2004, at 21:41:24
In reply to Re: partlycloudy---, posted by Glydin on November 20, 2004, at 19:14:46
Sorry that hurt so much. And I'm sorry that Dr. Bob PBC'd you. Mostly because I agree with everything you said. And I did not see how anyone could interpret that you were referring to any one person or group.
I could hear the thunder all the way up here. I hope the storm has passed and cleansed the air.
Take care,
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on November 20, 2004, at 22:35:37
In reply to ((((((((PC)))))))), posted by gardenergirl on November 20, 2004, at 21:41:24
I think I understand the reason for the PBC. You aren't allowed to post anything on the faith board that makes it sound as though there is one true religion or god or whatever. Sometimes that means people get civility warnings for posting from the bible.
So tolerance of peoples different faiths is kinda the motto of the board.
I do see how somebody who adheres to a religion could take offence from what you said in the sense that they may feel that becuase they follow an established religion they are closed minded etc.
I do not think that that was what you were intending to convey. I understand why you are confused about the PBC (as I was confused about a couple of mine). The faith board can be a minefield indeed, but I hope you stay anyway :-)
Posted by KaraS on November 20, 2004, at 23:00:48
In reply to Re: partlycloudy--- » KaraS, posted by verne on November 20, 2004, at 18:30:04
> Kara,
>
> I agree completely. I think I've finally run out of metaphors so let me recycle: "Don't take the Bait", "Don't rise to the Bait", and "Don't wrestle with the Pig". Or in deep Bible-Belt venacular: "Don't claim it"
>
> The idea, of course, is to not give power to the one trying to provoke us. Resist the Provoker and sign not any packages from him.All very well said. I've never heard the "wrestle with the pig" one but it works for me.
> I am suddenly so burned out with this place. I don't really trust socializing with others online
It's like anything else when/where you have to deal with different people and personalities. I try to stick with the people I enjoy and respect and not let the others get to me. Of course that's not always so easy but by and large it works. For some reason I'm very good at that on-line but terrible at it in the work place. Also, there are times I need this place more and other times when I need to be alone more. The support can be great when you need it though. A lot of people here, including me, would miss you if you left.
and get even less out of arguing everything from theology, politics, or semantics. "Faith is a "tool"." "No, Faith isn't a tool". "Uh,Uh, Faith is a tool". Reminds me how I drove others off the brink with my "Caine Mutiny" analogy. I can really dig in my heels (insert more cliches and mixed metaphors here).
I don't enjoy arguing or even discussing religion or politics yet I feel compelled to do so. It puts my stomach in knots and makes my blood boil - and for what? It doesn't change anybody's mind.
>
> Yet I'm lonely, bored, stir-crazy, and depressed and end up here after following the course of least resistance - something between a nosedive and a tailspin. I quit cymbalta and I'm drinking again. Too dangerous to do both.
I'm sooooo sorry to hear that. I would give anything to find an AD that worked for me but I understand that I don't have a problem with alcohol - which complicates the situation a lot. At any rate, you know that Cymbalta works for you and that it will still be there when you're ready to go back.Peace,
Kara
Posted by KaraS on November 20, 2004, at 23:10:02
In reply to Nonanswerable question---, posted by Glydin on November 20, 2004, at 19:12:10
> But I'll ask it anyway---
>
> Do we really think it will improve? "THE" situation right now, that is? I'm confused and disappointed and just not understanding why this behavior is allowed as it's currently happening. I've been here a while and there always seems to be "something". This one really effects me, I'm sorry to say. I really like so many here, but I can't seem to ignore the yucky stuff. My issue, but it does sadden me.
I think it will improve as far as the individual targets are concerned. The troublemaker(s) can still do their thing but if you're able not to buy into it, it has less power over you. Then, if enough people don't react, it's only Dr. Bob's problem at that point. For the rest of us, the beast will have no teeth.I honestly don't think it would bother me to have any of my posts submitted for review at this point - unless it came from someone I admired and respected and considered a friend. When it comes from someone who does it indiscriminately, then it would be annoying to me rather than hurtful.
I only wish I could be this way in the real world. I'm extremely rejection sensitive in many other ways and esp. in the work world. Go figure.
But, all in all, I think Dr. Bob is failing us by allowing this situation to go on and by feeding into it further.
Posted by SLS on November 20, 2004, at 23:35:39
In reply to Re: Nonanswerable question--- » Glydin, posted by KaraS on November 20, 2004, at 23:10:02
Hi.
> But, all in all, I think Dr. Bob is failing us by allowing this situation to go on and by feeding into it further.
I think the doctor has addressed the situation with the second of his 3 post rules. It seems to be helping.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/407882.html
- Scott
Posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 1:09:39
In reply to Re: Nonanswerable question---, posted by SLS on November 20, 2004, at 23:35:39
> Hi.
>
> > But, all in all, I think Dr. Bob is failing us by allowing this situation to go on and by feeding into it further.
>
> I think the doctor has addressed the situation with the second of his 3 post rules. It seems to be helping.
>
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/407882.html
>
>
> - Scott
Perhaps I am being too harsh in judging Dr. Bob here. He is obviously trying to deal with the situation and it isn't an easy one. I just get very upset when I see many good people suffering needlessly here at a site they come to for support. When Dr. Bob gives a PBC for a post like PC's, then I think he is feeding into the problem. IMO it is a harmless post particularly when read in its entirety. Taking a phrase out of context does not give the full picture here of the intent of her post.Kara
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 2:20:04
In reply to Re: Nonanswerable question--- » SLS, posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 1:09:39
Kara,
You and I are on the same page on this one.
I wonder about the combination of hot topic boards like "Faith" and civility guidelines that encourage strife. I wonder about this set-up.
I'm thinking PuppetMaster and OK Corral.
verne
Posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 3:16:20
In reply to PuppetMaster » KaraS, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 2:20:04
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 3:29:03
In reply to PuppetMaster » KaraS, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 2:20:04
My problem with this site is mostly with the "set", the enclosure. I like movies, and all and love to play pretend, but my frolic is interrupted when I'm cramped...
Here we have several "corrals" and rules about guests. Add to that a supreme being - don't worry it's still a western - add more supreme being - don't worry, it's still science-fiction.
well, love.
I can't express the love or hurt I feel. Just wishing, hoping. I'm not kidding or sarcastic.
I called someone back on the Pacific Zone, back when, nice to touch base, hurts. I'm really just looking for a lost love.
In alot of pain. It hurts so much.
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 4:13:57
In reply to OK Corral, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 3:29:03
I called the "West Coast". If you're from Iowa you know this doesn't mean anything. This was deeply meaningless.
Sure, I'm looking for a girl in Seattle. That doesn't stop me from calling Seaside, Or and carpetsweeping anyone who answers. I tried to squeeze some answers out of the fruit who answered, he was evasive, and I settle for some lint.
I'm still in a quandry.
I'm losing it. If anyone wants to contact me I'm at verne@lisco.com. I don't think this format is healthy - with the "stages", the "Ok Corrals" and the "Little Problem". Hey, it ain't the Andromeda Strain or is it something worse?
Posted by partlycloudy on November 21, 2004, at 4:34:10
In reply to PuppetMaster » KaraS, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 2:20:04
one of my favourite RH books.
Posted by AdaGrace on November 21, 2004, at 6:52:46
In reply to Re: partlycloudy--- » AdaGrace, posted by partlycloudy on November 20, 2004, at 12:30:48
Please don't hate yourself.
I wish I was here yesterday more.
It's amazing to me how something so supportive can be very devestating hurtful at times.
Sometimes I just don't think some people realize the damage they do to our fragile self esteems.
Please think of me and all the things you said to me.....and then say them to yourself.
You are such a good person, and not worthy of self hate.
Thinking of you and trying to telepathically send you good thoughts about yourself.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 7:13:12
In reply to Re: partlycloudy--- » partlycloudy, posted by KaraS on November 20, 2004, at 14:29:36
> different mental health problems can manifest in different ways. Sometimes they lead people to do things that cause pain to others.
I think general statements like that are OK...
> The posts that are brought up for "review" are not really the issue here. They are just excuses for getting attention.
But that's more specific, so keeping in mind that the idea here is not to jump to conclusions about others or to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 13:15:56
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » KaraS, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 7:13:12
Hi,
I just wanted to say a couple things about how ignoring a behavior can make it go away eventually. In behavioral terms, that is true, and it's often a good way to deal with problem behaviors. But a note of caution... In the process, the behavior can, and often does increase for a time before it goes away. This is called an extinction burst. It can lead to frustration and to giving up the behavioral "plan" to ignore behavior because it seems like it isn't working. But if the ignoring or not reinforcing of a behavior continues, eventually the behavior does stop.Just thought I'd drop some theory in. I'll turn the lectern over to someone else now. :-)
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on November 21, 2004, at 13:20:19
In reply to Extinction of behavior, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 13:15:56
It would help if we moved to a FI-1 rather than intermittant schedule first - that way extinction occurs faster :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on November 21, 2004, at 13:20:54
In reply to Re: Extinction of behavior » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on November 21, 2004, at 13:20:19
Posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2004, at 13:39:54
In reply to Re: Extinction of behavior » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on November 21, 2004, at 13:20:19
Speaking generally about extinction...yep, intermittent is the worst. It maintains behavior better than anything. You gotta be consistent.
gg
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 14:12:46
In reply to OK Corral, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 3:29:03
This is what happens when you mix 20 milk thistle capsules and 16 beers.
I'm really feeling sheepish this morning and can bearly, not barely, understand last night's posts.
Off to the store to get some remedial beer. Can't go from 16 to 0 in a day.
verne
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 16:01:09
In reply to PuppetMaster » KaraS, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 2:20:04
Who else incites more discord and upset on this site? Why is it that there is seemingly ALWAYS something disruptive going here? Is it a coincidence?? Or not? Hmmmm....
It's just NEVER calm here. That's just plain wierd. Instead of doing something therapeutic which could calm things, he seems to poke us with a lab tool - aka new rule. It's his hobby - poking us. If I ran this site, I would have emailed the refrequent reporter and said, "Thank you, but I don't need your assistance. Cease and desist all reporting or you will be blocked for 3 months". Sorry, but despite good intentions, the reporter has not demonstrated appropriate sensitivity in this reporting, imho.
Bob - if you feel put down, I'm sorry. But it's like someone saying my butt is fat. It's an unfortunate truth, and a good reminder that I need to change my behavior.
em
Posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:44:47
In reply to OK Corral, posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 3:29:03
> My problem with this site is mostly with the "set", the enclosure. I like movies, and all and love to play pretend, but my frolic is interrupted when I'm cramped...
Hard to have it otherwise on an Internet site though.
> Here we have several "corrals" and rules about guests.I don't follow you about the rules about guests though there certainly are lots of rules in general.
Add to that a supreme being - don't worry it's still a western - add more supreme being - don't worry, it's still science-fiction.
>
> well, love.
>
> I can't express the love or hurt I feel. Just wishing, hoping. I'm not kidding or sarcastic.
>
> I called someone back on the Pacific Zone, back when, nice to touch base, hurts. I'm really just looking for a lost love.
>
> In alot of pain. It hurts so much.(((verne)))
Did you just contact that old girlfriend you mentioned in an earlier thread? Love can hurt too much. That's why I stay away from it. I'm much too vulnerable and chicken ____. Good for you for being brave and taking the risk though.
Despite all of the rules that cramp our styles, isn't it nice to be able to pour your heart out here and get support?
K
Posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:51:14
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » KaraS, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 7:13:12
> > different mental health problems can manifest in different ways. Sometimes they lead people to do things that cause pain to others.
>
> I think general statements like that are OK...
>
> > The posts that are brought up for "review" are not really the issue here. They are just excuses for getting attention.
>
> But that's more specific, so keeping in mind that the idea here is not to jump to conclusions about others or to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobDr. Bob,
I have thought about this a lot and I'm not sure I can rephrase those 2 sentences without losing the meaning entirely. I am open for suggestions though. Perhaps it is better if I just say let's strike them completely from the record.Kara
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 18:51:35
In reply to The Puppet Master is a troll....imho, posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 16:01:09
> If I ran this site, I would have emailed the refrequent reporter and said, "Thank you, but I don't need your assistance. Cease and desist all reporting or you will be blocked for 3 months".
I'd rather try to find a middle ground?
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 18:51:42
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:51:14
> > > different mental health problems can manifest in different ways. Sometimes they lead people to do things that cause pain to others.
> >
> > I think general statements like that are OK...
> >
> > > The posts that are brought up for "review" are not really the issue here. They are just excuses for getting attention.
>
> I have thought about this a lot and I'm not sure I can rephrase those 2 sentences without losing the meaning entirely. I am open for suggestions though. Perhaps it is better if I just say let's strike them completely from the record.We can strike them, but one suggestion might be to continue to be general, for example:
> > > Sometimes part of it may be that they don't want to be neglected.
Bob
Posted by verne on November 21, 2004, at 18:56:46
In reply to Re: OK Corral » verne, posted by KaraS on November 21, 2004, at 16:44:47
"K" was the main character in many Kafka stories. One of my favorite authors.
I called people I hadn't seen or heard from in years but I was in no shape to contact the former girlfriend. I'm too traumatized by the prospect. I'm in too much emotional pain right now.
I need to put the "reunion" in abeyance. I love the word "abeyance" - it's like an easy chair or comfortable sofa.
Meanwhile, I'm drinking for the second day but hope to keep it down to a reasonable level. I'm just hoping my liver doesn't spontaneously eject.
My show, "American Dreams" is coming on in a few minutes. It's a "soap opera" set in the 60's around American Bandstand. They started out in autumn 1963 and are now in 65 I think. My mother drank herself to death on the day JFK was murdered. I wonder how many people went off the edge that day.
V
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 21, 2004, at 19:00:59
In reply to Re: suggestion, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2004, at 18:51:42
Bob - But this has allowed ONE person to cause MONTHS of upheaval on this site. Does that really make sense to you? A simple personal request from you outlining your reasoning, and consequences for continued disruption just seems fairer to the majority who post here.
Thank you for letting me express this.
em
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