![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Emme on May 30, 2004, at 8:48:28
Hi All,
Hold on to your hats. I'm about to go flat out ballistic! Warning! Danger Will Robinson! If anyone has issues about their marital status (or lack therefore), and about the menaing of life, you should either skip this potential trigger, or we can commiserate. Here goes:
Being single bites! Society provides so much validation for being married. Store and magazines devoted to weddings. Engagement parties, showers.
We have to buy present after present and smile at event after event without ever having our turn. We're invisible. We have to buy all our own flatware and blenders. But it's not about the money - though some of those bridesmaid dresses... It's about the emotional drain. Of course I want my friends to be happy. But it's bittersweet because I'd like a drop of that happiness for myself too.They stop visiting. And then they reproduce. And then I have to smile and send baby presents and I'm glad they have their babies, but I want one of my own too.
One by one my friends have paired off, generally happily. I'm giong to be the only single one left pretty soon. I truly despair of finding a partner.
I'm not young anymore, I'm not especially pretty, I look like a raggamuffin and can't afford a new wardrobe, I've become boring, my career is stalled at best. WHO on God's green earth would marry me? I really do put my best foot forward on my rare dates.
I'm ready to die of the fear and loneliness. And howcum we try so hard to save each other and ourselves anyway? We put horses to death for being in physical agony. Why can't we be allowed to put ourselves out of our own misery? We're going to go eventually anyway. I apologize if that is a tough trigger for the suicidal among us, but if anyone has any useful answers to that, I'd be interested to hear it.
Just curious. Do y'all find me cold and unapproachable? I'm nicer in person. Really.
Okay. I'm done. Thanks for reading/listening to another one of these huge posts I come up with from time to time. I appreciate you all and I hope I didn't drag you all *too* far down.
Emme
Posted by tterees on May 30, 2004, at 11:29:55
In reply to massive rant about being single, posted by Emme on May 30, 2004, at 8:48:28
I agree with you in part, and disagree in other parts. The whole gift giving thing does get to you. Why can't we single people have a party at say 30 or 35 - a "I'm not getting married party." And invite people, have a band, have a sit down dinner, and have people bring us things like: silverware, nice china, microwaves, sheets, towels, money. Isn't the decision to not get hitched as big as the one to get hitched? I want nice things too! And I am a single income (actually right now a NO INCOME).
Where I disagree is in losing friends that have married and have had children. Some you do lose, others, you work at it and they work at it. You have to be aware that their children always come first, but a good friend can make time. One of my closest friends is married and has two kids Her kids are in their teens now, but I have known them since before they were born. I have been included in so many family moments: birthdays, school plays, little league, first dates, proms, slumber parties, etc.
Tell you friends how you feel. You'd be surprised how many want to be a part of your life, and want you to be a part of theirs.
Posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 13:26:49
In reply to massive rant about being single, posted by Emme on May 30, 2004, at 8:48:28
Emme, that wasn't huge OR a bummer, except to hear that it all has you feeling so bad about life and yourself. I see a lot of fun and humor in many of your posts, and also a woman who believes in her principles and standards, and who could never be boring because she has many opinions to share. I'm so sorry you are feeling like giving up, and wish that there was something I could say on that front that wouldn't just be the same old thing.
If you don't mind, I'll add some of my own pet peeves in re: singledom. But first, as to one of your main points. I pretty much agree with tterees that not all women abandon their friends once in relationships. Sure, plenty do! But probably almost as often, what may really feel striking is just the drastic change in the dynamics of the relationship. And, the change in the things you could previously commiserate about (e.g. being single), and make your plans around (targeted to places where there are single men, which the friend may not be as open to anymore).
Many of the things that may have afforded us welcome and shared relief will seem to be gone. And of course, they really don't have as much time to spare. Even in the "going steady" phase, being someone who insists on putting their friends first rather than their partner is an equally unliked trait.
I had a friend who was formerly joined-at-the-hip with me finally abandon *me* with much disgust when she realized that a relationship I had gotten into wasn't going to blow over this time. And while however he and I conducted our relationship was our own business, in this case we were virtually always in groups, with as many singles as couples. This friend would have been able to see me virtually as much as ever, without being a third wheel. But she couldn't get used to not being the first person I checked in with and arrived at final decisions with. And took off with when the current venue/activity wasn't sufficient in one of our opinions.
Two years later and after the break up of the relationship with that guy, she admitted our falling out was all her fault and asked to make up. But I have to live with the fact that what it all amounted to was her not wanting to see me happy, and not even being able to bring herself to do the clearly right thing and at least FAKE IT.
Well, that's a very extreme example and not relevant here, but the point is, I do think many times you can continue to have a reasonable association with the involved friend, but things beyond the time factor will have changed, and something will be missing. But maybe it's more on us to learn to accept that.
Ok, now my singledom gripes: This probably won't help, but I wish I could give you some of how I feel about being single. I have had to admit to myself by now that that is what I prefer. I can be close to someone, I can be committed to someone, and I consider myself to have a good attitude about relationships and no baggage. BUT. As of yet, at the end of the day, I am compelled to be alone way too much for it to work in a relationship. I am also in no organizational or stability shape to consistently uphold my end of things in a traditional relationship, especially something like having kids.
Anyway, the point is, although a longtime companion would be nice, I am happy to be alone, although if I could push a button to be different I would, because I assume I am missing a lot. Though some would say NOT, or that whatever makes you happy is the right thing for you.
However, I too deal with annoying messages from society sometimes. Few (except those very close to you) believe that you *really* prefer to be alone. They may assume you must be bitter, have some defect lying in store, or are at the least conceited to claim you have simply not wanted to settle down with anyone. Often, in speaking with anyone from any stage of life, after you contentedly reply that you just never were the marrying kind; they will respond with assurances (you didn't ask for) that "That is OK!" or with assurances that the right man will come along someday. Then, if you try to discuss it, it may become a matter of "Who are you trying to convince, me or yourself?" (I have been in relationships lasting between two to ten years, so maybe I should just start saying I am divorced or something. But that wouldn't be much better.)
And sometimes, men will make some comment that shows they take for granted that any woman over a certain age will be hoping to marry him or forcing things should he date her. Then I wonder if he thinks he would be doing her some favor if he does so anyway, and if he makes her feel like she is somehow on probation as to her words and actions and freedom to be herself. Or if she loses the "right" to be believed if she appears to fancy him in particular, and is thought in reality to probably "fancy" any man available.
So whether a single woman "of a certain age" is that way by preference or not, we all seem destined to have assumptions leveled at us. I had hoped that someday I would start feeling the desire to have children, but I never did. However, it is still somewhat taboo to admit that, and if doing so to rebut someone who seems to be stereotyping, you may pass through that to being perceived as a "bad example of womanhood."
I can remember feeling paralyzed in a conversation with an admittedly very commitment-phobic guy I had been seeing, when he bluntly stated that my age in itself and the assumptions he made about my biological clock were scaring him, and keeping him from being himself. But, he made it clear he did adore and dream of having children. So there I was, not wanting to say something like I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A COMMITMENT PAL, because I do like to be close and special to someone if I'm going to bother with them at all, and don't want to invite cavalier treatment. And, he had the big sanctity of motherhood thing, so I didn't feel comfortable admitting I was pretty sure I didn't want kids. But, I learned to avoid guys like that, because it is insulting. And we obviously had different goals anyway.
Can I tell you how much the aftermath of that book "The Rules" irritated me??? Then, if a woman *was* by nature not in a hurry or not inclined towards relationships, her "elusive" behavior would seem to demonstrate that she must be following The Rules. And if she ever did express anything or seem to about wanting a relationship, then she would be told she SHOULD read The Rules. So it was "d*mned if you do, d*mned if you don't."
As far as the behavior of friends who are anxious for relationships, here's my biggest irritation. I have several friends who scope out good man-hunting ideas in advance, and then want practically a written and enforceable contract that I will accompany them to the event or bar. This, despite the fact that I have been up front from the start that my mood, energy and feelings of physical wellness vary greatly. Yes, I know there is also the component that they do enjoy my company and would like to see me, but if pressed, they won't deny that the primary reason for the push is the possibility of meeting men. Even just to flirt or... you know, if that's all that is available.
I can also smoke that out by attempting a switcheroo, as in "Ok, you say you just want to get out, and just want to enjoy my company. Then why don't we just go to a movie, or this-or-that restaurant/venue that is low profile and off the beaten track (i.e., unlikely to result in standing around flirting with boys or going deep into the night on some adventure). Then poof, their real motive comes clear: Find a man ASAP, after which *they'd* be the ones expecting *me* to understand as they went on to live their own lives, which wouldn't afford as much priority for me. Which I WOULD and always have, no problem. (They do enjoy doing the little things on a socially lesser occasion, like a Monday or something.)
I know I am the oddball there, and it is fine and understandable and normal for women to want there to be an element of the possibility of meeting someone when they do go out socially. And I too can be a live wire and enjoy rambunctious or higher profile outings in better times; and realize that when something like a concert or benefit is involved, an advance decision about the event is indeed required.
But, what hurts and upsets me is that these friends know that I have been slipping into a serious fog and crisis, and when it comes to the routine party or bar-hopping on weekends, they would still rather pressure me for advance answers and prefer to guilt me into attending. Even if I feel like crap that day and am too depressed and/or insecure to even have conversations (unless I drink too much), all so they can meet men.
I tell them every time, here is my mantra: "YES, you don't deserve to be left hanging. So BY ALL MEANS, if you need an answer now rather than the morning of the outing you are hoping for, then the answer is NO. MAKE other plans, cover yourself, absolutely." They KNOW it is not that I am holding out for better offers. But I *always* end up being cast as a problem and a pain. In my heart I don't feel like it really should be my fault if they don't have, or don't start seeking, other friends to do things with. Or like enough/are as comfortable with. But I apologize for myself as though I am ruining their lives.
I am equally mad at myself for ever letting people get me in this position, and for offering to justify myself and tell more about my personal problems than I want to, in order to provide excuses. If/when I make some new friends, I swear I am going to tell them up front as soon as the subject comes up that "Ya know what, I NEVER (well, in better times I can sometimes) decide what I'm up for until the morning of the thing. I'm sorry if that is inconvenient so let the burden be on me. Go ahead and make plans without me, and I'll just have to live with missing out on some things." And then NEVER explain myself, and reveal secrets I don't want to reveal, in order to justify my decisions.
Sorry Emme, all that was probably of no comfort to you, but was at least hopefully distracting, or showed how all camps to the societal problems with being single are affected negatively in some ways. And I do relate to the feeling like giving up thing for different reasons, and lend my sincere empathy to you there. There really are friends out there who won't abandon you over a man (which I know is not your main point). Partially as evidenced by the existence of someone like me! I hope your spirits soon swing up!
Posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 13:37:59
In reply to Re: massiv-ER rant about being single, posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 13:26:49
HA HA HA! I picked the right book, #37 in the list, Fein & Schneider's "The Rules (TM): Time-tested Secrets for Capturing the Heart of Mr. Right" (attempted to link another way below). But it came out as a GOLF rules book! That is SO my luck. Maybe it is the bizarre site problem going on today, where we often don't get a message box to type in and then don't get an edit box to edit in. Sorry Dr. Bob, I did keep choosing "Show more books" until I got to the right one!
Anyway, I actually never read this book, didn't want to, but I think this is That One to which I was referring (and if this goes to the wrong place, I will just be dropping it now!):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0446518131/drbobsvirte00-20
Posted by tabitha on May 30, 2004, at 14:19:25
In reply to massive rant about being single, posted by Emme on May 30, 2004, at 8:48:28
Hi Emme, I'm single in 40s and I really wish that the single life could be a better option. It feels like there's no place for middle-aged single people in society. I used to have this book about single women in midlife, and the conclusion was they were perfectly happy, because they had such fulfilling careers and such wonderful circles of friends. Well, sure, I'd be happier if I had those things, too! Tell me where single people can find wonderful circles of friends? My experience is that single friends are lower priority, or are temporary, in-between-relationships priorities, and it's difficult to maintain the friendships once the others are partnered up. To me that just bites, but of course I understand it's normal to put your partner and/or children first.
I'm in a bind. I know being single is difficult and lonely, and I have some regrets about being childless (child-free?) but I don't exactly like being partnered up either. I have such limited energy-- when I'm dating it feels that all I do is work and see Him. At least when not dating I do some self-development, you know?
And the last few men I dated, it was like they had a huge enormous void in their lives and expected me to fill it instantly, and be at their side all the time, and spend all free time with them. It was too much for me. I still need some alone-time, some me-time. And their timeline was so... accelerated. The stereotype is that women of my age are supposed to be the ones pushing, but I can tell you, there sure are some men who are in a big hurry to get partnered for life.
Posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 15:35:24
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single, posted by tabitha on May 30, 2004, at 14:19:25
> And the last few men I dated, it was like they had a huge enormous void in their lives and expected me to fill it instantly, and be at their side all the time, and spend all free time with them. It was too much for me. I still need some alone-time, some me-time. And their timeline was so... accelerated. The stereotype is that women of my age are supposed to be the ones pushing, but I can tell you, there sure are some men who are in a big hurry to get partnered for life.
<<<<< Suffering that rather than being on the other end of it may be the lesser of two "evils" (pains). Maybe that's a dubiously redeeming aspect of being this way. I often feel like I am playing the part of the Bad Boy in the relationship, although it is only in effect (due to my inability to plan and needs for alone time); and not that I am in reality swingin, dating around or commitment-phobic. At least I have confirmed for some men that indeed not all women are hungering for marriage, or needing to be with someone or at least on the phone with someone at all times.
Sounds like we are very much alike Tabitha, especially in not having the energy to keep up with some kinds of romantic relationships and demands (and also have time for/improve ourselves).
And where I live, people go out almost every night of the week routinely, and relationships often take off at the same pace, and don't typically focus on as much homebodying, laying low, renting movies, etc. as I've seen in the typical relationship in other areas. It's way too much for me, but I am the Martian amongst them. Most people don't live here unless those are the things they are looking for and the fast-paced lifestyle they want (kind of like Sex & the City). I often think I should move.
I never feel lonely, but by way of that longtime companion thing I think would be good for me, I do think about trying an Internet dating service someday (I meet people in real life, but just hate agreeing to dates or even lunch/coffee when I've just met someone in passing. When *I* have a first date scheduled, I act like I am going to a funeral). I know Internet dating has disappointed some, like anything else, but I have that dubious "advantage" of not really caring if that or anything else works out. Sometimes that's when good things in general seem to happen, ya know? When we aren't emotionally invested in them.
My thing would be that the person would have to enjoy communicating in writing, and maybe doing it for weeks before making plans to meet. I can tell so much about a person in writing. Well, I can't know if they are being honest, but I can know about their humor, insights, intelligence and ability to express things. And I could be up front about *some* things about myself that aren't mainstream (like not being able to commit as much time as some, or to be as spontaneous); take it or leave it. Some may say chances are better if they know you personally first, but since I have second (and third) thoughts about getting into another relationship anyway, and don't care too much if I end up in one.... whatever! I'll take the easy way. I like men who have a lot of cerebral and philosophical qualities, yet have some kinda old fashioned values about right and wrong. Never the charismatic player, or the hunk. It takes a lot to make me feel a real connection.
Sound like a tall order? Well, I figure millions of people belong to these services, there's someone for everyone... Just let it all hang out and see what happens! Ok, am I off the point now or what.
Posted by tabitha on May 30, 2004, at 20:08:57
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single » tabitha, posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 15:35:24
Go for it, spoc. The internet personals are the way to get dates nowadays.. unless you're fortunate enough to have a wide social circle or a job that brings prospective mates into your orbit.
I have kind of the opposite approach to blind dates though. I want to meet face to face ASAP. I don't want to invest time and get my hopes up through phone calls and emails, only to find there's no physical attraction.
So this topic reminds of a funny/pathetic episode from my single life. My older married friends tried to fix me up with the only single guy they knew. It was comical. I never did meet the guy, but I kept getting more and more bits of info about him that screamed 'not a good match', but my friends kept persisting, wanting us to meet. First tidbit-- when they mentioned that they had a woman they wanted him to meet, his response was 'you know I'm a Christian man', and my friend's husband told him I'm a good church-going woman, which I quite a stretch (I'm not at all the conservative Christian type. In fact I'm not Christian. I've had flirtations with Buddhism and a new age sort of church. That's as church as I get.) Next I learned that he lives on a remote piece of land, in a rural town at least 60 miles away from me, and the land is so rugged it isn't even possible to drive a car to his house. It requires a truck or 4wd vehicle. I drive a very urban subcompact, and I'm very unexcited about the prospect of dating anyone who lives that far away in a rural area. Next, I learned he doesn't have a real house, but lives in a collection of adjacent sheds with no electricity. I'm not kidding. I'm thinking Christian Unabomber type, hopefully without the violent hatred of people in technical professions (I work in high-tech.) I finally had to tell my friends I'm sorry, but it sounds like such a longshot, I don't want to meet him and disappoint anyone. That was my last offer of a fix-up.
Posted by tterees on May 30, 2004, at 21:13:46
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single » spoc, posted by tabitha on May 30, 2004, at 20:08:57
Oh Tabitha, you make me laugh!!!
First I thought "wow, why can't my friends introduce me to someone like that"
>>Next I learned that he lives on a remote piece of land, in a rural town<<Then I thought "huh? I can't believe someone lives in a a worse situation than my messy messy apartment"
>>Next, I learned he doesn't have a real house, but lives in a collection of adjacent sheds with no electricity<<Then I just laughed out loud
>> I'm thinking Christian Unabomber type<<Advantage to being single and living alone -- you can laugh out loud whenever you want!
Posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 22:39:08
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single » spoc, posted by tabitha on May 30, 2004, at 20:08:57
TOOOOOOOO funny, Tabitha! We do have to seriously wonder what our friends are thinking at those times. But as hard as it is to justify, I think it's all part of that drive that seems to exist in our paired-off friends to "share the joy." And maybe be able to bring us into the fold and double date with us too.
Once when a married friend was intent on fixing me up with someone, she almost had me convinced after weeks. And I had been introduced to the guy at a party and started talking to him on the phone. Then, in her neverending "fortification" of him, she happened to mention that she felt his addiction to strip clubs and prostitutes was only the result of loneliness, and probably being ready for a relationship! She actually said it as casually as that, not even as a warning.
I think it's also funny how impossible of a situation it turns into when single friends don't have chemistry with someone, but think they may be a good prospect for another of their friends. The possibility becomes moot on its face, with suspicions of "leftovers" and "not good enough for you, but good enough for me, huh?" A lot of good men probably get dispensed with that way.
Maybe many women friends share some basic preferences, but in later life (well, I'm 'only' 40ish), without making any resolutions at all, what attracts me to a man really changed. Prior to that, looks had been a pretty considerable part of it. So many of the guys I know my friends would eat alive, don't phase me one iota anymore (but the hand-off is ill fated beyond any legitimate reasons). That's why I say I wouldn't need to meet someone face to face right away (although I would want to see a few unobscured pictures!).
Going on years now, a guy can become wildly attractive to me based on character and personality traits, practically in themselves (how they interact with others is very important to me too). As a matter of fact, I have to admit that when the last boyfriend I had first asked me out, I remarked to a friend that I was a little disturbed that he thought I might be interested. But once I agreed in a bored moment to get together with him, and got to know his real personality, we ended up being together for two years and I loved him to death. Still miss him, though it was star crossed (he was one of those who needed more than I could give).
So! While I would and could never compromise on what attracts me to a man's personality, I guess all of the above bodes well for affording me many more choices than might otherwise be the case! It has been a pattern that when I start seeing someone, my friends might not always get it. But later after they spend some time around us and see how we interact and the kind of person he is, they are genuinely envious as all get out and start to see him as quite physically attractive too! In other words, to see what I see, and wish they could learn to spot the real gems this way too. ;- )
Posted by tabitha on May 31, 2004, at 0:40:19
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single, posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 22:39:08
Oh dear. Hearing about Strip Club Guy is making Christian Unabomber sound way more attractive. ;-)
Posted by Noa on May 31, 2004, at 9:41:34
In reply to Re: massiv-ER rant about being single, posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 13:26:49
I found that I could still maintain frequent contact with friends who had one child but when they have 2 or more, it got much harder to have contact with them except very infrequently. The friendships would go on, but they changed a lot, and maintaining them got harder, I think from both ends.
Having freinds marry off and have kids is less frequent now that I'm in my forties. But my circle of single friends is also quite small now. That is hard. But there are some neighbors that are single that I'm beginning to get to know. And I am becoming friends with a couple I know through work. They are my age and have no children.
Posted by Noa on May 31, 2004, at 9:52:38
In reply to Re: massiv-ER rant about being single, posted by spoc on May 30, 2004, at 13:26:49
I just remembered. When it comes to friends in relationships, rather than friends with children:
When I was younger and my friends were getting married, I remember observing that I was able to stay friends with the ones whose husbands who were friendly with their wives' friends, who took an interest in their wives' friendships-I don't mean in a controling or intrusive way, I mean that they were very welcoming and friendly and that while most of the time I would be getting together just with the woman friend, sometimes we'd all get together, or they'd include me in dinners or celebrations, etc.. When I'd call they'd say hi and ask how I am, etc. before handing the phone over to the woman. In contrast, in couples where the husband had no interest whatsoever in who his wife's friends are, and did not make any effort to be friendly to me, those friendships were much much harder to maintain and tended to fade out pretty much over time. It felt like too much of an effort with these friends.
Posted by Emme on May 31, 2004, at 12:18:49
In reply to massive rant about being single, posted by Emme on May 30, 2004, at 8:48:28
Hi All,
Ooh, I hate it when my emotions go on a rampage. And I've got so many issues to go on a rampage about these days. But you guys have a lot of thoughtful things to say.
Thanks, Spoc, for your vote of confidence about liking my posts! Tabitha, your Christian Unabomber story had me in stitches. I've been thinking about my weirdest dates, but your non-date tops any of my real dates. :) There was the really bizarre acquaintance who wanted to date me, but had very few teeth because he wouldn't go to the dentist. That's pushing my "gross-out" limits. I really need them to have baths and good oral hygeine.
About married buddies: in truth, most of my friends (male and female) have at least maintained some degree of contact after getting married. One talks to me all the time. But I have to try to be zen about the fact that most contact and any visiting will be due to my efforts. And I've made a heckuva lot of effort over the years. I think whichever one of you said it about the one kid vs. 2 or more kids had a point. I guess it's just harder for people with multiple kids to carve out the time. Two vanished and I'm not going to make any more unreturned gestures.
Maybe it's for the best because I've started to dread talking to or seeing friends with children because it hurts so incredibly much not to have my own. Much as I value long-term friendships, after a while I may end up being the one to drop contact because I can't deal emotionally. How lame is that?
I'm always welcome to go to my brother's house, and to stay for multiple days if I want. But my brother and sister-in-law will never make the effort to drive 2.5 hours to visit me even though my neices are grown. I have no choice but to accept the limits.
For the last year I've been in serious limbo, so I've been in a bad position for dating and increasing social contacts. I'm sure not being able to *do* enough towards getting a better life is making it all seem that much worse and making my emotions go berserk.
Anybody got anything on that "meaning of life" thing? :)
Emme
Posted by spoc on May 31, 2004, at 13:00:48
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single, posted by Emme on May 31, 2004, at 12:18:49
Happy Memorial Day one and all! :- D
Emme, this is probably one of those super duper annoying, misguided suggestions, but is there any way you could get some peace through doing volunteer work involving children? Maybe that woud stir up the same painful yearnings... but it would be regular and very meaningful contact. You'd make a difference in lives and maybe be in contact with the same kids for years.
And hey -- it's always said that volunteer work is a great way to meet new people, as friends and/or partners! Especially if you get involved in fundraising and related social activities...
Ok, yammer yammer yammer spoc! Apologies in advance! :- )
Posted by tabitha on May 31, 2004, at 15:41:34
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single, posted by Emme on May 31, 2004, at 12:18:49
the 'meaning of life' thing eludes me too. When it seems all my energy just goes into working for pay, and keeping up myself and my home, I feel really lacking in purpose. I keep begging my therapist to give me a clue. She just smiles and says it's whatever I want it to be. Well OK,,, but when do I figure that out? Not much insight yet.
Posted by Emme on May 31, 2004, at 19:54:27
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single » Emme, posted by spoc on May 31, 2004, at 13:00:48
> Happy Memorial Day one and all! :- D
Same to you!
> Emme, this is probably one of those super duper annoying, misguided suggestions, but is there any way you could get some peace through doing volunteer work involving children? Maybe that woud stir up the same painful yearningsI thought about it, but I decided that it would be kind of painful. At least with little ones. I could probably deal with junior high or high school kids. For the moment I'm going to try to increase my involvement with local environmental issues.
> Ok, yammer yammer yammer spoc! Apologies in advance! :- )
No need! Perfectly reasonable suggestions. :)
Emme
Posted by Emme on May 31, 2004, at 20:43:02
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single » Emme, posted by tabitha on May 31, 2004, at 15:41:34
> the 'meaning of life' thing eludes me too. When it seems all my energy just goes into working for pay, and keeping up myself and my home, I feel really lacking in purpose. I keep begging my therapist to give me a clue. She just smiles and says it's whatever I want it to be. Well OK,,, but when do I figure that out? Not much insight yet.
Sounds like your therapist doesn't know any more than you do. :) Sounds like quite a few of us are in the dark about the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. :) I keep wondering if depression makes me too existential for my own good. Or are many depressed people too introspective and existential to begin with? Being idealistic is such a pain in the neck.
You know, being in school gave me a lot of focus for a long time. You have a tangible goal dangling in front of you. Whatever job I get next won't have a concrete end point attached to it - at least not in the same way. If I don't feel strongly about the work, I could see myself feeling a lack of purpose. I guess my next end point will be...umm....a trip to a sperm bank?
Hey....let's get sappy and do an existential "meaning of life" 10. Why are we here, what's important, and why should we bother to stick around?
1. To serve our communities at some point in whatever small way we can.
2. To give and receive love from families and friends.
3. To look after the well being of our family and friends. And society at large.
4. To help carry on cultural traditions.
5. To develop our talents as best we can and to keep learning and learning.
6. I guess we shouldn't forget about nature. We share large portions of our DNA with things like frogs and pumpkins, so we might as well be kind to our extended family so to speak.
7. Personal expression - music, art, literature.
8. To laugh a lot. (may be tougher for this crowd.)
9. This may sound shallow but I'll throw it out: enjoy our bodies as best we can. Walk, run, bike. Dress in the styles we like, get a massage, do things that feel good.
10. Maybe being alive is all about experiencing decadent pleasures and we should all become hedonists. Depressed, anxious hedonists. Or is that an oxymoron? I'll lead the way in chocolate.Hmm. I'm not sure I've gotten myself any closer to the meaning of life, but it's an interesting exercise.
Posted by spoc on May 31, 2004, at 23:33:39
In reply to Re: testing, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2004, at 23:18:53
Eeek.... I did leave the right box checked... Could it have been that site problem? I never linked before, but would have thought I did whatever was stated or "intuitive" about it... But maybe I missed a final "Submit links" or something? Sorry...
Posted by spoc on May 31, 2004, at 23:35:08
In reply to Re: massive rant about being single » tabitha, posted by Emme on May 31, 2004, at 20:43:02
This is the end of the thread.
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