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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on April 1, 2004, at 15:03:40
Harry's sister appears to have lost the vision in her "good" eye and is now completely blind. She got relatively aggressive when she became partially blind because she was afraid everything that moved was a threat to her. Aggressive towards the other dogs, not to people of course.
She wasn't terribly happy partially blind, and I guess it's too early to tell how she'll deal with being totally blind. Maybe it will be better for her in a way, because she won't see threats everywhere. :(
My regular vet really doesn't like to use Prozac on dogs, as he says it doesn't significantly increase their quality of life. But he was gone today and the vet today gave me a prescription for it. He says, and I think he's probably right, that it can't do much harm (except for doggie withdrawals) considering the current quality of her life.
Does anyone have any familiarity with helping an old dog acclimize to blindness? She's almost fourteen now. The vet suggested keeping her enclosed in a small space so that she will know where everything is, but she *hates* that. She wants to be with her person. So today she's sticking close to me but I'm constantly stepping on her and she's walking into walls and doors and everything else. She's terrified whenever there's a loud noise. Or even not so loud noises. And of course the dogs "talk" to tell each other to get out of the way of the food bowl or whatever and she's jumping a mile.
I'm hoping when they get the inflammation down they'll find out that her sight can be saved, but he was noncommittal.
Any ideas?
Posted by Penny on April 1, 2004, at 15:22:01
In reply to Blind dog on Prozac, posted by Dinah on April 1, 2004, at 15:03:40
Dinah,
Sorry I can't offer any advice as I have no experience in this area, but I'm so sorry to hear that Harry's sister has possibly gone completely blind, poor thing.
Give her some love from me.
P
Posted by karen_kay on April 1, 2004, at 18:43:03
In reply to Re: Blind dog on Prozac » Dinah, posted by Penny on April 1, 2004, at 15:22:01
Give her lots of love and don't make too much noise. Wish I could help out more Dinah. I'm sure that after a while, she'll become accustomed to it. And the prozac will kick in soon. That will help. And having such a wonderful mommy will help ease her into this new stage of life. You're a wonderful mommy to your doggies!
Posted by fallsfall on April 1, 2004, at 20:19:58
In reply to Blind dog on Prozac, posted by Dinah on April 1, 2004, at 15:03:40
Hey Dinah,
I'm sorry that your sweet dog is having this trouble. I'm sure that you want to make her feel better, but I don't quite know how that would be done. I bet that being close to you will help her - she can smell you, and hear your voice, and your usual noises. I would think that she would be a bit scared right now - no wonder she is jumping at the noises. Hopefully, in a little while she'll learn that there are going to be noises, and she's not going to know they are coming, but that she is safe.
Do she and Harry get along? Would he take care of her? Or do they still have the sibling rivalry going on?
I'm glad you took her in today, even though your vet wasn't there. Can you talk to your vet tomorrow?
Please give them both a hug and a pat from me, and don't forget your hug.
(((((Dinah))))) (((((Harry & Sis)))))
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2004, at 6:49:58
In reply to Re: Blind dog on Prozac » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on April 1, 2004, at 20:19:58
The truth is that if I were a good mom, I can't help but think I'd choose this point to put her gently to sleep, if they can't get her sight back.
As much as they're my babies, the truth is that she's a dog. She can't look back to yesterday or forward to tomorrow. She doesn't understand what's going on. She can't contemplate the deep philosophical questions of life. She has no obligations to others. She only knows now. And if now is more bad than good, she is miserable. If there's not a whole lot of hope that "now" will become substantially better, she's looking forward to a remaining life of misery.
She hasn't been happy for some time. She's confused and afraid. I have no way of explaining to her what is going on. In her world, she probably has every reason to be confused and afraid. Because she's afraid, she lashes out, and the other dogs respond in kind. Keeping her away from the other dogs is substantially the same as keeping her away from me for most of the time. If she's completely blind the whole cycle is bound to become worse.
I hope they can save her sight. I hope the Prozac works. Because the truth is that I can't bring myself to take the life of a perfectly healthy dog just because she's unhappy. I've only put a dog to sleep at the very end of their lives, when they only have a few more hours or days or weeks to live in pain, no matter what I do.
And I really don't think that makes me a good mom to a dog.
Posted by fallsfall on April 2, 2004, at 7:23:50
In reply to Re: Could be a trigger, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2004, at 6:49:58
This is certainly a hard decision. I think that you are a good mom if you love her and let her know that. Will Harry let you carry her around like you did when he was feeling so sick? Maybe that isn't Harry's choice.
Give her some love, spend some time with her. She'll let you know what to do. And she'll know that she's loved.
Posted by rainyday on April 2, 2004, at 7:40:03
In reply to Re: Could be a trigger, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2004, at 6:49:58
I would try to get other senses satisfied: familiar smells, textures (favourite shoe to chew on), and sounds. I would think of it like how you would comfort a puppy.
When my kitty Bullwinkle (yes, his brother was Rocky) started to quickly decline from diabetes related illnesses, he became very disoriented and would lash out at his own brother - which frightened them both. I separated them and let Rocky come and sniff Bully in little bits. Kind of like when you introduce a pet to your home where you already have one.
As for his care and treatment and quality of life, follow your heart. Follow your vet's advice, but you know your pet best.
((((Dinah)))
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 2, 2004, at 10:38:11
In reply to Re: Could be a trigger, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2004, at 6:49:58
Dinah give me a couple/few days I have 2 friends with blind dogs and know some folks in rescue who have taken and helped blind dogs adapt. YOU are a good dog mom if you werent you would not care at all......I'll have some ideas for you..I do know just from one talk that a leash in the house with her and touching speaking FIRST is most important..not moving things and so on.....she will make it.......lets work on this..like I said I have to email people and wait for replies but....we can work this out and she will adjust dogs adjust to blindness and lack of a limb better than people
Posted by shar on April 2, 2004, at 12:44:44
In reply to Blind dog on Prozac, posted by Dinah on April 1, 2004, at 15:03:40
((D))--
Very sorry to hear the pup's problem. That is so hard. You said she is 14; is she a big or little dog? I can't recall.My border collie (who passed some years ago) had terrible cataracts, but was not totally blind. However, she did stick much closer during her last year. I did a lot of touching, petting, reassuring, leading her with my voice, clapping hands softly to let her know where I was, or snapping fingers, or even just clearing my throat or coughing softly--you are probably doing all of that already. I would use my voice as much as possible, and touch (the other senses she still had).
I think I would try to treat your girl's condition like any other one she might have to accommodate--she will no doubt have times that seem terrible because you love her so, but I think animals do it without the trauma we might feel if it happened to us. Sort of like, whoa, what's this new thing...I don't like it a bit. And then they go on doing their thing as best they can.
It's very hard, and I'm sure you are doing wonderfully well in her opinion.
I have one dog that is deaf, and it's somewhat similar in a way. I have to touch him to get his attention, and face him to get a message to him. He does get mowed over at times (by me or the other dogs) because he doesn't hear us coming, or I'll turn around or go around a corner and there he is, or he'll turn around and plow into someone else.
OTOH all of my dogs tend to get stepped on a fair amount, just because they are always right under foot, or laying in a heap right in the middle of where I need to step (they have an uncanny ability to be in the exact spot). Twelve legs and 3 tails are hard to tiptoe through.
Best wishes to you, and I hope your girl feels better as she gets used to her condition. I will hope for a reversal of her loss.
Shar
Posted by jane d on April 2, 2004, at 16:18:23
In reply to Blind dog on Prozac, posted by Dinah on April 1, 2004, at 15:03:40
Look what I found (the internet is wonderful).
http://www.blinddog.info/blinddoghelp.htm
I like the idea of using scent to mark areas and of putting noisy tags on the other dogs.
I also wonder if you could use different floor textures (like runner rugs) in some way.
http://www.blinddogs.com/blind_dogs.htm
Links to a yahoo group and also has a page of links.
And I had literally thousands of other hits.
Jane
Posted by Dinah on April 2, 2004, at 19:05:10
In reply to Re: Blind dog links » Dinah, posted by jane d on April 2, 2004, at 16:18:23
For the advice and for the links.
My therapist and I talked about this and he agreed with me (Hey, maybe I *am* internalizing him). Since I can't put her to sleep (whether for weakness on my part or whatever) I need to make her as comfortable as I can.
So now I just need to fetch her from beneath whatever piece of furniture she's cowering under to try them out.
She's a little dog, around seven pounds.
And Jane, rugs in *our* house? :O With the dogs we've got? Good heavens. My husband doesn't let me have anything that can't be scrubbed with clorox. rofl.
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 2:01:51
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone, posted by Dinah on April 2, 2004, at 19:05:10
With the eye doctor. It's becoming clear as she calms down a bit that she must be having some trouble with her hearing as well. She can clearly hear, but just as clearly is having trouble pinpointing the direction of where the sound is coming from. So if you call her, she seems frustrated and cocks her head in completely the wrong direction.
Poor darlin. But she does seem less disoriented today. And she's not attacking the other dogs. Maybe the eye doctor will be able to do something. On the other hand, she managed to find her way to my feet as I sit at the computer. :)
Posted by All Done on April 3, 2004, at 9:10:49
In reply to Re: I hope today goes well., posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 2:01:51
Good luck, Dinah. I'm thinking about you and your pup. Hope the eye doctor can help.
(((Dinah and Dinah's little darlin)))
Take care,
All Done
Posted by fallsfall on April 3, 2004, at 13:34:51
In reply to Re: I hope today goes well., posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 2:01:51
On the other hand, she managed to find her way to my feet as I sit at the computer.
*** See, she knows what she needs and how to get it.
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 13:42:28
In reply to Re: I hope today goes well. » Dinah, posted by All Done on April 3, 2004, at 9:10:49
The bad news is that she will probably never regain her sight. She developed an acute onset thick cataract. Which is totally unrelated to her previous eye problems, but because of her previous problems and the inflammation in her eye surgery isn't an option. We're going to give it a month and check it out again before deciding for sure.
The good news is that the doctor helped me feel more positive about her new, different, life. I'm afraid she'll never be comfortably part of the gang again, but he said they generally adjust to sudden onset blindness in a month or so. Maybe a bit longer because her hearing is also not good. And she seems to have gotten less aggressive with the other dogs, not more, so maybe everything will work out ok.
The bad news is that a dog doesn't generally develop a thick sudden onset cataract for no reason. So he's checking out other health problems like diabetes. And the other other bad news is that she's probably having some pain and he didn't see many options to stop that.
So I guess we'll wait a month and see. And treat the diabetes if she has it.
And she does seem a bit less frightened and disoriented, I think.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 13:56:23
In reply to Bad news and good news and bad news, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 13:42:28
Dinah,
Just had the time to read this thread. I'm sorry for you and your sweet pet. I'm also confident that she is in the absolute best place to have the best care. I once knew someone who had a blind dog who adjusted just fine. I don't know if it was an acute blindness or more chronic. But it sounds like your pooch is already adjusting.((((((Dinah and her pets!)))))
Take care,
gg
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 17:25:08
In reply to Bad news and good news and bad news, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 13:42:28
Dinah.... the Cavalry is on the way see your email on blind dogs
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 21:10:03
In reply to Dinah see email pls on ur dog, posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 17:25:08
Thanks Fallen. I've just got home but have spent the time looking up all the info you sent me. :)
I'll send you an email when I recover from work some.
Fortunately her bloodwork came back ok, so she's in great shape except for the eyes.
And by very good fortune, I had just got the dogs one of those pet fountains, which is one of the things they recommended! So she can find the water by sound. Now I've got to figure out some way to coax her to eat a bit more. Maybe I'll have to isolate her for a while each day with her food.
I think she'll be ok. In some ways she seems less frightened (or less paranoid anyway) than she did when she had vision in only one eye.
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 21:21:21
In reply to Re: Dinah see email pls on ur dog » Fallen4myT, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 21:10:03
Dinah I am sure I will get lots more too....no need to worry on a reply but keep looking for emails cause this has hit a HUGE group of well informed people so I will hear info for weeks no doubt :) Rest and enjoy your dog..shell be ok
hugs
Posted by fallsfall on April 3, 2004, at 22:48:28
In reply to Re: Dinah see email pls on ur dog » Fallen4myT, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 21:10:03
So, it sounds like things are settling down a little. You both have a hard road ahead, but it is sounding much more optimistic than yesterday. She's a spunky girl. She'll be OK.
Posted by All Done on April 4, 2004, at 1:22:33
In reply to Bad news and good news and bad news, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 13:42:28
> The bad news is...
> The good news is...
> The bad news is...
All this bad news and good news. I know more good news - she has you taking care of her. She's a lucky dog and will do just fine under your care.
My sister's 14-year old dog went blind a couple of months ago and with some adjusting on everyone's part, she's doing really well. You'll notice a huge difference after a month.
Take care,
All Done
Posted by noa on April 4, 2004, at 10:34:36
In reply to Bad news and good news and bad news, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2004, at 13:42:28
Dinah, I'm sorry your pup is going through such a hard time. I hope she and the other dogs adjust smoothly to the changes.
This is the end of the thread.
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