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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 21:01:42
My 15 year old daughter's online profile says (among other things):
"because shes sick.." the biggest cop-out ever
My heart sank when I read that. Everytime I make a parenting decision that she doesn't like she tries to blame it on my depression. What she doesn't get is that when I am making the decisions she doesn't like that's when I'm feeling BETTER. She tends to like my "depression" decisions (because I let her get away with more).
I wish that I didn't have depression. I wish that it didn't impact her. But I don't have those choices. All I can do is to do the best I can - but that really doesn't seem to be good enough.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 21:17:36
In reply to Daughter's criticism, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 21:01:42
When I was that age, I used to criticize my mum's decisions all the time. What your daughter needs to understand is that it doesn't matter if you are depressed or not. She is 15, and you are her mother and what you say (or her father says) goes. I think it's probably just typical teenage rebellion. Don't worry, give her a few more years and she will get past it. From what I have read from you on here, you don't sound like an unfair parent or person...
Elle
Posted by Penny on January 23, 2004, at 21:55:21
In reply to Daughter's criticism, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 21:01:42
15 is a tough age. Not a kid, not grown up, trying to figure things out.
You can't change how your depression will influence your daughter. You can only continue being the best parent you know how to be, and taking care of YOURSELF the best way you can, so that she can see that you are fighting this with everything you have. She won't necessarily understand now, but she may at some point in the future.
I don't recall if you've ever said or not, but is she in therapy?
P
Posted by DaisyM on January 24, 2004, at 1:36:09
In reply to Re: Daughter's criticism » fallsfall, posted by Penny on January 23, 2004, at 21:55:21
Ok, I almost never post over here but THIS one I have to...
As you know, my husband is has two severe chronic illnesses. Sometimes he is OK enough to be a parent but most times he is pretty much just OK enough to go to work and come home...nothing more. There is an ebb and flow to his involvement. His moods are all over the place, especially because of the medication he has to take. This is hard on the whole family, including the kids.
My older teenagers (16 -18) sometimes forget that THEY have mood swings as well. If they are in a negative place and so is their dad...well, let's just say it isn't pleasant. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have their best interest at heart. He sometimes has to remind them that everyone has to learn to live with stuff they would rather not have to.
Teenagers are cruel. They know exactly the spot to touch that will hurt the most. Even if you weren't depressed, it is likely that your daughter would find something else to criticize or rail against. It is in their nature.
I have a sign in my kitchen: "You can't scare me, I have teenagers." I have high expectations for them and I have tough rules. They complain, and I'm sure they resent it. But, since I "single" parent so often, I find I have to turn a deaf hear to it. Otherwise I second guess myself all the time or my feelings get terribly hurt. (As in, "don't they know I'm doing the best I can!)
You could tell her she hurt your feelings. But I think you might try to just accept that for now it is her way to begin to break away, to find excuses and test limits. Which makes you the bad guy. Which stinks.
Don't take it as truth. And I'm sorry she hurt you.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on January 24, 2004, at 8:31:45
In reply to Daughter's criticism, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 21:01:42
Fallsfall,
I just had this incredible momeent of lucidity! In this rare moment, I had a thought:
Perhaps your daughter is saying "Mom is sick" just because when you make an unpopular decision, she doesn't want to blame it on you. She's angry, but She found another focus for that anger in your illness.
It's just a thought,a nd it may be wrong, but I think it sounds reasonable.
Dee.
Posted by Dinah on January 24, 2004, at 8:44:33
In reply to Re: Daughter's criticism, posted by DaisyM on January 24, 2004, at 1:36:09
Daisy took my answer!!! No fair!!! (grin)
Seriously, she said everything I would have said. So I'll just add my good thoughts to you for the strength to endure until she gets older and notices that you're a lot wiser than she had noticed.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 24, 2004, at 13:02:32
In reply to Daughter's criticism, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 21:01:42
What to add, what to add???? (Imagine Karen pacing the floor in circles chewing her fingernails and drinking coffee).....
Snaps fingers, returns to keyboard and VOILA ***(((fallsfall)))
*She's only 15. She's just a teenager. She's looking for reasons to blame her mother for being unfair, which I'm sure you're not. Now, if you want put on your profile:
Because she's 15
and settle the score :)
Posted by fallsfall on January 24, 2004, at 13:46:44
In reply to Re: Daughter's criticism, posted by Karen_kay on January 24, 2004, at 13:02:32
She took it out of her profile. I didn't say anything to her.
The whole thing is so complicated. She moved to stay with her dad (3 houses away) about a week ago - she had been with me for 1 1/2 years (before that 6 mos with him, and 2 years with me - before that we were together). He finally bought her a new bed. She and I had a major fight over her keeping her candy out of the dog's reach. I know I was right in asking her to search around for her candy scattered through the house.
Maybe it was just time for her to spend some time with him (she seems to have trouble "splitting" her time between the houses - she likes to entrench herself somewhere and not move). Heaven knows I can use the break. She certainly does take a lot of energy.
She refuses to go to therapy (even though our family doctor wanted her to go a year ago when he diagnosed depression - which she denied).
I understand about the being 15 part, and separating and all. It is still murder to live with. My older 2 were very different when they were 15 (well, my oldest went from 6 to 30 - she never was 15).
But she was happy to let me take her to get her hair cut, and buy some clothes, and get her passport picture taken, and go to the Post office to apply for her passport, and for me to pick her up from work tonight. I hope, deep inside, that she took that out of her profile because she realized, maybe just a little, that she needs me.
Thanks for letting me rant. It does help.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 24, 2004, at 15:01:52
In reply to Re: Daughter's criticism - all, posted by fallsfall on January 24, 2004, at 13:46:44
> She took it out of her profile. I didn't say anything to her.
Maybe she just wrote it in her profile out of anger. Perhaps she thought about it and realized it was unfair of her to say.
> She moved to stay with her dad (3 houses away) about a week ago - she had been with me for 1 1/2 years (before that 6 mos with him, and 2 years with me - before that we were together).
Sounds to me like she might be taking advantage of the divorce situation. Maybe her dad is more lenient on certain things (i.e. boys, work, school, etc.) I don't know, you know more than I do about the situation. It's just a thought, I've seen it happen before.
> But she was happy to let me take her to get her hair cut, and buy some clothes, and get her passport picture taken, and go to the Post office to apply for her passport, and for me to pick her up from work tonight. I hope, deep inside, that she took that out of her profile because she realized, maybe just a little, that she needs me.It's a good sign she still wants to spend time with you.
Elle
Posted by DaisyM on January 24, 2004, at 18:26:15
In reply to Re: Daughter's criticism - all » fallsfall, posted by Elle2021 on January 24, 2004, at 15:01:52
What is it about the 3rd one that makes them different -- and harder?! Speaking as the middle child...
Deep down, we all need our moms. I'm glad she has a good one.
*smile*
Posted by fallsfall on January 24, 2004, at 19:56:19
In reply to We all need you!, posted by DaisyM on January 24, 2004, at 18:26:15
Gee, I was the 3rd of 3 girls...
Thanks. It is nice to be needed.
I picked her up from work. She wanted to go to her dad's. I asked if she needed a ride to Dance tomorrow and she started fighting about last week. She got out of the car in a huff. I rolled down the window (it is 7 degrees F. outside) and told her that it was my pleasure to give her a ride home from work - that she was very welcome. How can she succeed in pissing me off so much in less than 10 minutes?
P.S. That really is a rhetorical question... I know the answer: She's 15.
Posted by antigua on January 24, 2004, at 22:51:34
In reply to Re: We all need you! » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on January 24, 2004, at 19:56:19
It took 10 whole minutes? My 15-yr old can send me over the edge in less than 5!
Just kidding... well, kind of. My 15-yr old is a boy and there have been long stretches of time (all last year)when I wondered what I had done wrong for him to be so impossible, to close-up so much that my usually chatty son was silent all the time. He was depressed about his new school and took it all out on me. This year he decided to accept it and I have my son back--the new, improved 15-yr old version, but it's much better than getting the silent treatment.
My mother had six kids (I'm number 4) and she told me once that I should try not to let them hurt me; they really know our vulnerable spots. But I wouldn't trade any of them for anything. They are my reason for getting up every day, no matter how difficult they may make it sometimes.
antigua
Posted by fallsfall on January 25, 2004, at 9:58:47
In reply to Re: We all need you! » fallsfall, posted by antigua on January 24, 2004, at 22:51:34
When I told her last week she couldn't go to Dance because she hadn't picked up her candy, she said : "fine, take away the ONE THING that makes me happy, that makes life worth living".
She doesn't know that she is literally the *ONLY* reason that I am alive.
Today I will tell her that I see 3 choices:
1. She can continue to snipe at me (and I could snipe at her, too)
2. We can sit down and fight it out until we agree.
3. We can agree to disagree.I find choice 1 unacceptable as it is just neverending anger. This would never lead to a resolution.
I am willing to try choice 2, though I think the likelihood of either of us budging the other is just about zero.
I vote for choice 3. I accept that she thinks I was arbitrary and unfair in my punishment of her, and unreasonable in my requests. She accepts that I think that she was irresponsible and uncaring for not honoring her word.
I bet she'll go for Choice 1.
Posted by antigua on January 25, 2004, at 10:17:15
In reply to Re: We all need you! » antigua, posted by fallsfall on January 25, 2004, at 9:58:47
My son would probably vote on #1 until he reached a point where he realy, really wanted something, and then he would start negotiating and manipulating me to try to get what he wants.
In some ways it's easier when I'm depressed because I'm more likely to give in to my kids, but that's usually because I feel guilty that I'm not paying more attention to them. If we're fighting more sometimes it means I'm actually paying attention to what they're trying to get away with. They don't see that as healthier, they see that as mom interefering w/their life..
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
antigua
Posted by fallsfall on January 25, 2004, at 10:33:28
In reply to Re: We all need you! » fallsfall, posted by antigua on January 25, 2004, at 10:17:15
> In some ways it's easier when I'm depressed because I'm more likely to give in to my kids, but that's usually because I feel guilty that I'm not paying more attention to them. If we're fighting more sometimes it means I'm actually paying attention to what they're trying to get away with. They don't see that as healthier, they see that as mom interefering w/their life..
>Exactly.
I want to print out your paragraph and tape it onto my refrigerator. But I don't suppose she would "get" it even then...
Posted by Ilene on January 25, 2004, at 14:06:17
In reply to Re: We all need you! » antigua, posted by fallsfall on January 25, 2004, at 10:33:28
This is my Theory of Adolescents: They are so incredibly obnoxious, and constantly picking fights, because otherwise they would stay with mommy and daddy forever and never go out and raise their own children. The genes that code for teenage niceness died out because those teens didn't have any offspring.
Ilene
Posted by noa on January 25, 2004, at 20:27:40
In reply to My Teenager Theory, posted by Ilene on January 25, 2004, at 14:06:17
You know that book by Dr. Anthony Wolff? The title says it all about teenagers: "Get out of my life but first could you drive me and Cheryl to the mall?"
Posted by Elle2021 on January 26, 2004, at 2:59:56
In reply to Daughter's criticism, posted by fallsfall on January 23, 2004, at 21:01:42
I came across this book on Amazon.com The book is called:
Parenting Well When You're Depressed: A Complete Resource for Maintaining a Healthy Family
by Joanne Nicholson (Editor), Alexis D. Henry, Jonathan C. Clayfield, Susan M. PhillipsThought maybe it might be helpful to you.
I don't know how to link this like Bob wants it, so hopefully he can correct it. (Sorry Bob, I couldn't figure it out).
Elle
Posted by noa on January 26, 2004, at 16:44:31
In reply to A book for you » fallsfall, posted by Elle2021 on January 26, 2004, at 2:59:56
Elle--to link, just put two sets of quotation marks around the title instead of one set. Then, when you submit your post, you can confirm that the link is correct before hitting "confirm your post". Here's the link--
"Parenting Well When You're Depressed: A Complete Resource for Maintaining a Healthy Family"
by Joanne Nicholson (Editor), Alexis D. Henry, Jonathan C. Clayfield, Susan M. Phillips
Posted by Elle2021 on January 27, 2004, at 0:20:07
In reply to Re: here's the book link » Elle2021, posted by noa on January 26, 2004, at 16:44:31
Posted by fallsfall on January 27, 2004, at 14:28:57
In reply to Thanks Noa!! (nm) » noa, posted by Elle2021 on January 27, 2004, at 0:20:07
Posted by jane d on January 28, 2004, at 14:56:45
In reply to Very interesting - thanks! (nm) » Elle2021, posted by fallsfall on January 27, 2004, at 14:28:57
Gosh. 25 years later and I still can feel guilty about how I treated my mother. And so will she in time. In fact, she may already feel guilty. She knows you're sick, she knows she should take it easy on you, but she can't. She's 15. And if she's a typical 15 year old she doesn't realize it's because she's 15. She goes back and forth between believing it's all your fault for being an awful, aggravating parent and all her fault for being a lousy, selfish daughter. With an extra dose of guilt because you're sick. So, with typical teen maturity, she acts like she doesn't care that you are sick. Or not. That's just one scenario and likely it' wrong.
Jane, still squirming with guilt
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