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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 20:54:22
Tonight I went to see that movie about the “Friedmans,” but it was so depressing, I had to leave. What was I thinking?
I have a creepy, scary sort of feeling. Talking about Paul today ... then talking with him ... then talking with Andrea, the mother of his first-born, who’s convinced he’s still using, etc. – has left me feeling ... this sort of free-floating anxiety ....
I realize now, my depression has kicked in pretty badly, coupled with fear and panic and anxiety – and, truly, I just wish I could take a bunch of pills and go to sleep.
(Some nights I do.)
I realize ... tonight ... how ill and dysfunctional Paul seems to be. He had things so easy with me here in [hometown]. I paid half the rent. I paid for the phone. I bought all the groceries and did all the cooking.
He laid around – literally – smoking pot and drinking.
Then he left here, and went back to one of the women who’d filed the A&B charges. He lived with his brother for awhile, until his brother threw him out. I guess he probably stayed with Jane then, or camped .... He cheated on me .... If you can call it that. I mean, I thought we had a committed relationship, although things were certainly up in the air .... (And he kept his return to Jane a secret.)
Then I went out to see him again, and it didn't quite feel right ... but it seemed okay. I mean, it was still great seeing him, although I was content to leave him behind to settle his court matters, while I tended to things of my own.
Then Andrea gave him a place to live in her home ... until he started smoking crack in the house.
Now he’s back out on the streets. Or up in the mountains, should we say.
It just doesn’t seem possible that Paul can live a “normal” life. Apparently during his first trial he was adversarial with the judge ... and ... I can’t imagine. I can’t imagine going days without a phone ... without a bath ... without a kitchen ... or a bathroom ... or friends ... mail ... contact with others.
So walking back to my car in the dark tonight, after leaving that terrible and confusing movie – I started feeling this sort of unreality about my own life. Who am I?
I say that I know who I am, and I do – but I feel I’ve been living in such unreality ... including spending all this time on the computer (when I could be doing something productive or visiting with family). And living in my parents’ home, tonight – as many nights – has a ring of unreality about it .... As does returning to a job that I worked my tail off for last year, sometimes putting in 12-hour days (when I was only paid part-time, and a prorated salary at that). I worked and worked and worked and had to drop out of grad school because my job was so stressful and – you know what? My earnings last year were $14,000!
I spent all the money I’d saved for a house.
I’m stuck, in a home that is not quite my own .... My son is gone .... I’m making more money this year – a whopping $16-something – but ... still.
I don’t feel that I’m living in reality.
Unwashed and unshaven and isolated from friends and family, doing God knows what, at all hours of the day and night, having his things stolen – and – being so alone – I suppose Paul’s next trial is not going to go well .... And I wonder.
Would I know anymore of who I was were I in his shoes? No books. No TV. I wonder if he’s praying ... if he’s talking with God ... and I know I should be doing the same, so I’m not so free-floaty, but plugged more into my center.
Fallsfall, you talked about anxiety that you wouldn't be able to see your therapist, and I understand. I met my new therapist over a month ago -- and I don't have my next appointment until the third week in September! Where are we supposed to go for help?
I guess I need to go back to the meetings. I fell out of contact with the recent travels to California. I guess I should start chanting and praying again. I fell off from that, too. I guess I should, you know, "chop wood and carry water" or whatever it is people do to help ground themselves in the lives they're living.
I feel so creepy and out-of-control tonight.
Temmie
Posted by gabbix2 on August 30, 2003, at 21:35:50
In reply to I am Feeling Creepy Tonight, posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 20:54:22
I'm sorry, if you already know this Temmie, but I thought I'd mention it in case you didn't.
Sometimes I take xanax or ativan for a while if I'm having a stressful time, and if I take more than usual for a day or two and then cut back,
I get terrible rebound anxiety and fear.Its excruciating, and usually the situations I'm in would be anxiety inducing anyway, like yours are, but my brain magnifies them about 200x.
Its a really scary thing to go through (I ended up in the hospital the first time)I didn't find out until someone told me, so I just thought I'd mention it. Xanax has a particularly bad rebound effect for me.
I don't mean to be patronizing If you already know all about your medications I thought it would be worth it though if you didn't.
Take care.
I'm sorry you're going through all this.
Posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 22:06:52
In reply to I am Feeling Creepy Tonight, posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 20:54:22
Temmie,
I hear you. I think that when I was a child someone told me that I would finish high school, go to college, start a career, get married, buy a house, have kids, raise kids, welcome grandchildren, get old, and die. It was so simple. You just go from one step to the next. I started my life like I was supposed to. But sometime in the middle of "raise kids" I left my husband and crashed with depression. Now that things are different, I'm not quite sure how to change the list.
What happened with Paul's first trial? I'm sorry if you posted and I missed it. Why do you think the second will go badly?
When was the last time that Paul was self-sufficient? Or at least pulling his own weight? Are you willing to take the chance that you will have to support him? Are you willing to live with him the way that he is willing to live?
Where do we go for help when the therapists are gone? Well, if things get bad enough, you should be able to call your therapist before your next appointment. Before things get that bad you go to friends and family and us. We're here for you.
It sounds to me like you are thinking about the right things. You are going in the right direction. I think that when your child leaves the house that every parent goes through a certain amount of "well, I used to be a parent, so what am I supposed to be doing with myself now?". And it is important for us to come up with good answers - we have many important years left.
(((((Temmie)))))
Posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 22:09:32
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight, posted by gabbix2 on August 30, 2003, at 21:35:50
Thank you Gabbix2. I have been wondering about this. I have experienced similar problems with Xanax in the past. I have been trying to watch how many I'm taking -- and when -- but honestly, since this crazy saga with Paul has unfolded, and caused so many ups and downs, over the summer, I've lost track. Some days I use none. Some days I'll use one or two (.25s), some days I'll use three all at once (for sleep), but -- ack? I can't know for sure. I do know I get 60 a month, and so far I've still got some left ....
I am using Serzone for sleep. I can take up to four .25s, which I've done tonight (I should be writing in Psycho-Babble with this discussion, but it's difficult to keep the conversation going with movement around the different boards). I am still feeling creepy .... Maybe it is the Xanax withdrawal. I was thinking of taking a Xanax or two tonight -- but will opt out.
I wonder what to do then?
If not Xanax, alcohol?
That sounds horrible, but I wasn't kidding. Hmmmm. Om ah ra pa tsa na dhi! I need to get back to center.
And I'll have to get back on P-Babble to see what people recommend, and call my prescribing nurse on Tuesday. Eeps. Fallsfall, I hope we can both hang in there until then. In the meantime, as always, I am so grateful for this place to write!
I am sorry, btw, my posts are so long. I used to be a regular on OpenDiary.com ... but seemed to have lost all my readers -- and as so many of my issues are psych-related, this is a much better fit.
Many thanks for your advice and care.
Temmie
Posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 22:24:34
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight » Temmie, posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 22:06:52
Oh Fallsfall, hello. I'm so glad to have you onboard tonight. Thanks again to Gabbix2 for keeping me company. I'm not quite a mess ... but things have certainly accelerated some in an unhealthy direction.
Regarding your questions:
During Paul's first trial, he was offered a plea-bargain, which he refused (as pleading "no contest," or whatever was offered to him was tantamount to admitting to guilt -- which he wouldn't own up to). It did sound as though Jane attacked him first, but who knows? In any case, apparently he was argumentative with the judge, showed up not looking so great (one white sock, one black), and when it was left up to the judge to decide, the judge decided guilty.
So he has a conviction for a misdemeanor A&B.
Had he gone with the plea-bargain, he would have had probation for a year -- and perhaps some kind of community service or something. As it is, he has probation anyhow (and why don't they bust him for God's sake, or get him some help from the VA?), but he's also got that career-ending conviction.
I don't know how long it's been since Paul was self-sufficient. Maybe a year or two? My love for him was so intense during those first-blush days, I could almost imagine loving and supporting him .... I remember saying, "Gee, I supported J all those years, I could support you, too .... You could go back to school. You could do graduate work in (bla bla bla)," but that was in a moment of -- yes -- temporary insanity ... and, no, I don't want a long-term relationship with a sick person. Lovely though he can be.
I called Andrea tonight .... She works in a psych center ... and, God bless her, she's got a great laugh. We laugh about my dates. We commiserate over Paul. I think he's been -- well -- unwell for a number of years. Moody. Really moody. He was like that with me, and -- good Heavens -- I'm so easy to get along with, it isn't funny.
I talked with her about how he'd "had it made" here, and how he'd "had it made" when she offered him the back bedroom earlier this summer. All he had to do was ... just keep his head on straight (which at this point, for me, would have consisted of contacting my attorney, straightening out my employment situation, etc. etc. etc.)
For Paul? It was going around the corner to the ghetto and bringing crack back into the house. He just couldn't keep it together.
I was thinking today, when he sounded so down, maybe he was about "at bottom."
I'm not sure. I'm not sure what to do at this point, other than pray, I guess -- and try to keep my head above water -- and get back to meetings -- pull out Jimi's chant (thank-you, dear) -- to watch my intake of Xanax -- to not drink -- to take care of J's guinea pigs (poor little neglected dears) -- and to hang on and post here.
Thank you for checking in. Thank you all for being there tonight.
T.
Posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 22:33:02
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight » Temmie, posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 22:06:52
Fallsfall -- so where did this depression come from? And did this occur after the marriage fell apart? How many children do you have? Are you working still "out of the home?" Remind me how old your children are ....
How are you managing your depression?
How great is your therapist that you have such concern about your work with him/her being interrupted?
I wish *I* had someone "great."
Thank God I have you guys.
Temmie
Posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 22:38:33
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight » fallsfall, posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 22:24:34
I used to have a guinea pig. Her name was Juliet. She used to "Whee Whee Whee" everytime I crinkled a supermarket bag - she was hoping for her Romaine. She used to popcorn and looked so happy. She chewed halfway through my shoelace, so everytime I tie my shoes I think of her. Then she got really sick. I took her to the vet 3 times. I was feeding her with eyedroppers. But she didn't make it. Guinea pigs can be really wonderful. When you get lonely, pick up a guinea pig and hold it for a while.
Hang in. I'm thinking of you.
Posted by gabbix2 on August 30, 2003, at 23:53:32
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight » Temmie, posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 22:38:33
I wish I could whisk you away to a place full of guinea pigs, and ice cream, and bubbles (for blowing) You are so sweet and such a funny little duck for someone so wise.
Posted by Tabitha on August 30, 2003, at 23:55:43
In reply to I am Feeling Creepy Tonight, posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 20:54:22
Temmie, I was having similar thoughts tonight--that my life is a little unreal. I'm 40, single, childless, living 2000 miles from family, and while I have a few friends I cherish, I often end up alone on weekends and holidays when I'd rather have companionships. It doesn't seem quite like a real life.
I also recently went through a temptation to become a caretaker to a man that wasn't quite a fully functioning adult. I thought (briefly) that if he provided love and companionship, it was OK that I'd provide the money and home. And I did this once before, in my first marriage in my 20s, and I know that it doesn't work. I want an equal partner (I think), yet I seem to fall in love with child-men. I even had the thought that maybe I was compensating for being childless by loving a childlike man. Or something.
Anyway, I understand how hard it is to be alone, struggling with depression and anxiety, and not quite have the life and love you want. If your son just left home, it's no wonder you're in a bit of a tailspin.
That 'chop wood carry water' is good advice. I'm having a fair amount of depression lately, and just trying to keep moving and take care of stuff around the house. It doesn't really make me feel better, but I think the alternatives (drinking, too much TV, calling the 'ex') would certainly make me feel worse, so I guess it's the best option.
And are you getting any exercise? Do you do any yoga or anything? That always helps a little.
Posted by fallsfall on August 31, 2003, at 9:26:45
In reply to How R U Managing Depression? » fallsfall, posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 22:33:02
Hey Temmie,
My depression comes from a combination of emotional neglect (emotionally clueless mother, workaholic father), and a massive overload of responsibility (work and home). The marriage fell apart when it became clear that my husband wouldn't take any of the responsibility for our family life. My kids are: daughter, 20, junior in college - wants to teach deaf kids. son, 18, has been at Basic Training for the Army for 5 days - satellite communication. daughter, 15, Oh, so 15! 10th grade - wants to be a chef. They are wonderful. I have been out of work on disability for 19 months (I am a software engineer).
How do I manage my depression? Not very well. I take lots of drugs. My therapist doesn't like this and I will start trying to reduce the drugs starting this morning (very slowly).
I saw my first therapist for 8 1/2 years. I was incredibly and excessively dependent on her (I want someone to take care of me like my mother didn't). She let me down in the end and I started with my current therapist 2 months ago. He is very different than she was. My dependency (even though I was hurt and angry at her) was so deep that I transferred a significant part to him. Is he worthy of this adoration? I don't know. He's come up with some really good ideas, he has been able to meet my needs when required, he has pushed the right buttons to get issues brought into our relationship. But I think the reason I am so hesitant to lose him is that I NEED to have someone (for the dependency stuff), and right now, he's all that I have. I can't be alone. I am panicking because my fallback therapist (an old group therapist of mine) is also not on this new insurance - though she charges 2/3 his fee and I would have more of a chance of paying that out of pocket. So my panic is because I can't live this life by myself.
Ice cream helps, but it isn't a mother substitute.
So that's my story. The moral of the story? Choose your therapists carefully, and then know when it is time to leave. --Gee, the most important thing I can say about my life is about therapy...
Posted by fallsfall on August 31, 2003, at 9:28:57
In reply to Oh, fallsfall » fallsfall, posted by gabbix2 on August 30, 2003, at 23:53:32
Posted by Temmie on August 31, 2003, at 9:29:10
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight » Temmie, posted by fallsfall on August 30, 2003, at 22:38:33
Oh, thank you Fallsfall. I agree. Piggies are wonderful. I've had them for a number of years now. There's nothing like "piggie time" when you're feeling sad and blue.
Posted by Temmie on August 31, 2003, at 22:18:39
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight » fallsfall, posted by Temmie on August 31, 2003, at 9:29:10
I found so many wonderful notes between last night and this morning -- I'm hoping to find time at the library tomorrow, so I can write you all more personally. Thank you for keeping me company on a night of darkness and despair. I ... do ... seem mired in some kind of confusion. It's mirrored in the paperwork that clutters the dining room table, my desk in the basement, and which now spills out onto the floor, as well.
How to organize? How to ... just put things away. Hmmmm. I'll have to get the Morgenstern (sp?) book. You know, "Organizing from the Inside Out." I think that's the title.
Anyhow, I did manage to "chop wood and carry water" today in the care I extended to my little piggies -- giving them fresh timothy hay for bedding, kale from the grocery, and slices of cucumber, as well. They're happy, and I'm happy that they've been properly taken care of, after too many days with the same old bedding.
Tomorrow I have one last "coffee date" with a man I met through my personal ad. This guy mentioned being at the "top of his field" (albeit in a humble way), and when I did a google search -- he actually popped up -- picture included. He's an educational professional. Good grief. It took me six months before I could say 'curriculum and instruction' without stumbling. I don't know how to begin describing what his bio noted as accomplishments (and don't have it handy). Suffice it to say, we're coming from too opposite ends of the spectrum (success vs. stumbling) -- intersecting, presumably -- in that place of striving for a "spiritual life," and companionship with one "on the path."
What does all this mean?
I have no idea! Truth is, meeting and talking with these men has been a good sort of ... um ... 'assist' ... in getting over my need for and despair about Paul ... And, truth is -- I'm moving back to where I'd started at the beginning of it all: being alone. (And that's just fine.)
I've got my kiddos coming in on Tuesday morning (14 little fresh-faced eight-year olds) and my second-to-last grad class starting Wednesay night. I'm going to be busy. And busy will be just fine.
I'm sorry ... I'm rambling. I'll be back soon with more time to respond to some of your posts. Until then, wishing everyone well ... wishing everyone sweet dreams ...
Temmie
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 11:42:03
In reply to I am Feeling Creepy Tonight, posted by Temmie on August 30, 2003, at 20:54:22
creepy is a good way to put it. i sometimes wonder "what's the point?" a job, bills, a house, a car, a world filled with dysfunctional people. every day is just another ALT Edit Paste the same thing over and over.
i may marry a different guy, on my 4th now, but they are ALL the same. i blame my multiple marriages on men. <grin> they need to stop asking.
life is what you make of it. i need to make mine better, i guess.
KDi in Texas
Posted by Temmie on September 9, 2003, at 19:21:19
In reply to Re: I am Feeling Creepy Tonight » Temmie, posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 11:42:03
Best wishes, then. Thank goodness we've got this place. Again, appreciate your words. Temmie
This is the end of the thread.
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