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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tabitha on June 24, 2003, at 1:21:01
In reply to Re: Anybody up? I'm sad., posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 0:10:25
I'm up, waiting for the pill to kick in.. last night I slept, but woke at 5 am, late night alone misery is the worst.. even the cat is missing
have a drink of water, a warm milk, a spoonful of ice cream, a whiff of vanilla, anything.
Posted by Sabina on June 24, 2003, at 1:35:44
In reply to Re: Anybody up? I'm sad., posted by Tabitha on June 24, 2003, at 1:21:01
It's weird, because I feel so alone even though my boyfriend is here and able to sleep in the next room. Yet, if I'm asleep when he gets up for work here in a few hours, I'll feel somehow guilty for feeling lazy for "sleeping in".
Posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 9:40:35
In reply to Anybody up? I'm sad., posted by Emme on June 23, 2003, at 23:31:18
The seroquel kicked in and I went to sleep. Now it's morning, late morning, I'm tired and sluggish and really sad. Okay, sinking into an abyss is more like it. My life is a solitary mess and I can't straighten it out. The family dynamics are hard. My life is useless. It's a project gone awry that really ought to be ended - today if I could. I can't call my therapist because she is on vacation. I can't burden my friends any more and so I'm burdening you poor folks. I want to GO so badly, but it would make my father too sad. So I gotta somehow get through today and tomorrow and the next day.
Posted by yesac on June 24, 2003, at 14:55:06
In reply to Now it's morning. I'm sadder., posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 9:40:35
It's not a burden to us (well, I should speak for myself)...I don't see it as a burden. I think that most of us have been there at some point, or many points for that matter. Insomnia is so awful, expecially when you feel so depressed. I spent a summer unemployed, total insomniac (because I had nothing to get up for and would sleep later and later), and it was HELL. I couldn't fall asleep until 4 or 5 in the morning, didn't want to be doing anything at those hours of the night, I just wanted to be asleep like everyone else. No one to talk to, nothing to do, only myself and my miserable thoughts to deal with, and the tossing and turning and frustration.
Sorry you feel this way lately. I hope that you feel at least a little better soon. Keep your head up, if you can.
Posted by fallsfall on June 24, 2003, at 17:27:54
In reply to Now it's morning. I'm sadder., posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 9:40:35
I don't think therapists should be allowed to go on vacation. Do you? Maybe we should circulate a petition.
Posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 23:00:57
In reply to Re: Now it's morning. I'm sadder. » Emme, posted by yesac on June 24, 2003, at 14:55:06
Thanks for the encouragement. Today was so hideous I couldn't leave my place until late afternoon because I couln't stop crying. I'm exhausted and haven't eaten much today. I talked to my pdoc. The issue of hospitalization came up. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me is terrified. We're probably going to figure out a plan, but leave it as a last resort. She asked if I wanted to go in today, but I held off.
I'm tired and despondent.
emme
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 23:23:47
In reply to Getting worser and worser, posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 23:00:57
Emme, I've heard really good things about what a good hospital program can do. It can't hurt to look into the possibility.
I'm glad you have someone on your side.
Dinah
Posted by yesac on June 25, 2003, at 11:29:36
In reply to Getting worser and worser, posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 23:00:57
> Thanks for the encouragement. Today was so hideous I couldn't leave my place until late afternoon because I couln't stop crying. I'm exhausted and haven't eaten much today. I talked to my pdoc. The issue of hospitalization came up. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me is terrified. We're probably going to figure out a plan, but leave it as a last resort. She asked if I wanted to go in today, but I held off.
I've been there with the whole hospital plan. Discussed it in detail with my psychiatrist and my past therapist, and been quite close to really going, but I never actually have. I too am terrified about that. But somehow things always managed to become enough okay that I didn't have to. But, as people here have said to me, I think that if you really feel like you need to go, then you probably should.
Posted by kara lynne on June 25, 2003, at 15:11:21
In reply to Getting worser and worser, posted by Emme on June 24, 2003, at 23:00:57
Hi Emme,
In your pain you found the kindness to reach out to me and it made a difference. Maybe it will help you to know that--who you are has a real effect on people. It sounds like you do know that somewhere.I understand so much the endless pain you describe. And yet I don't understand it. Why is this allowed in the human experience? Who cares if there is a higher purpose for it (if you even subsribe to that possibility) or if it's just random bio-chemical torture. I've had enough, now. And I'm sure you have too.
Good to know you have a pdoc you trust. I need to find one, or go to support groups (more than what I've been doing). It just is essential. I do believe that our thoughts influence something, somehow. And hopefully our collective love and support and prayer will give us the strength we need to get to the other side of this.
My thoughts are with you.
Posted by Emme on June 25, 2003, at 19:42:12
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » Emme, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 23:23:47
I think I need to talk to my pdoc about what to expect should I have to go in. Maybe then I wouldn't feel so scared. Made it through today at least.... Yes, I am lucky to have a good pdoc solidly on my side.
Posted by Emme on June 25, 2003, at 19:51:59
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » Emme, posted by yesac on June 25, 2003, at 11:29:36
> > Thanks for the encouragement. Today was so hideous I couldn't leave my place until late afternoon because I couln't stop crying. I'm exhausted and haven't eaten much today. I talked to my pdoc. The issue of hospitalization came up. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me is terrified. We're probably going to figure out a plan, but leave it as a last resort. She asked if I wanted to go in today, but I held off.
>
>
> I've been there with the whole hospital plan. Discussed it in detail with my psychiatrist and my past therapist, and been quite close to really going, but I never actually have. I too am terrified about that. But somehow things always managed to become enough okay that I didn't have to. But, as people here have said to me, I think that if you really feel like you need to go, then you probably should.
>I don't know how to know when it's justified...when I'm sick enough. One day I might feel like it's necessary, but then by the next day I've improved and moved up to "just plain miserable". I can generally get up, shower, pick up things at the drugstore, and do some basics. But I'm worn and scared and think about death a lot. I just don't know. But it seems like talking to her about it isn't a bad idea. Then maybe I'd be more inclined to go if it's really the right thing...
Posted by Emme on June 25, 2003, at 20:02:31
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser, posted by kara lynne on June 25, 2003, at 15:11:21
Hi Kara Lynne,
> In your pain you found the kindness to reach out to me and it made a difference. Maybe it will help you to know that--who you are has a real effect on people. It sounds like you do know that somewhere.Thanks for expressing that. I'm really glad my posts (and everyone else's) have helped you. My friends and therapist have beein doing their damndest to convince me that my presence matters to them, that I'm not useless. It's a message that's taken me a long time to even begin to believe.
> I understand so much the endless pain you describe. And yet I don't understand it. Why is this allowed in the human experience? Who cares if there is a higher purpose for it (if you even subsribe to that possibility) or if it's just random bio-chemical torture. I've had enough, now. And I'm sure you have too.Amen to that!
> I do believe that our thoughts influence something, somehow. And hopefully our collective love and support and prayer will give us the strength we need to get to the other side of this.I hope so...
> My thoughts are with you.Thanks. And mine are with you. You are somehow coping with so many awful things simultaneously. You obviously have lots of strength and guts.
Emme
Posted by yesac on June 25, 2003, at 20:05:55
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » yesac, posted by Emme on June 25, 2003, at 19:51:59
> I don't know how to know when it's justified...when I'm sick enough. One day I might feel like it's necessary, but then by the next day I've improved and moved up to "just plain miserable". I can generally get up, shower, pick up things at the drugstore, and do some basics. But I'm worn and scared and think about death a lot. I just don't know. But it seems like talking to her about it isn't a bad idea. Then maybe I'd be more inclined to go if it's really the right thing...
>Yes! That is exactly how I feel. I just really don't know if I could ever bring myself to believe that it really is time to go to the hospital. How do you define "necessary"? I know that many of my therapists probably wished desperately that they could get me to go, but knew how totally against being forced into something like that I am. I mean, if for days my thoughts keep returning to suicide, if I ponder my pills and dump them into my hand, if I write out quasi-suicide notes.... does that mean I should go? How do I KNOW that I "can't keep myself safe"? I've always managed before, somehow. I don't like to promise that I will, but I never really know if I can for sure.
It's so hard...
I also do think that it's good to discuss with your therapist, just to get the idea in your head. I never would even have considered it if we hadn't talked about it.
I hope that you've felt better today, a least a little bit.
Posted by noa on June 25, 2003, at 21:00:31
In reply to Thanks Dinah! , posted by Emme on June 25, 2003, at 19:42:12
I think that is a good idea--take control of the contingency plan so if it is needed, you are ready. Hope things feel better soon.
Posted by Emme on June 26, 2003, at 6:34:21
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » Emme, posted by yesac on June 25, 2003, at 20:05:55
> Yes! That is exactly how I feel. I just really don't know if I could ever bring myself to believe that it really is time to go to the hospital. How do you define "necessary"? I know that many of my therapists probably wished desperately that they could get me to go, but knew how totally against being forced into something like that I am. I mean, if for days my thoughts keep returning to suicide, if I ponder my pills and dump them into my hand, if I write out quasi-suicide notes.... does that mean I should go? How do I KNOW that I "can't keep myself safe"? I've always managed before, somehow. I don't like to promise that I will, but I never really know if I can for sure.And do I even really WANT to keep myself safe...? And what if I got up the nerve to go there and they decided I wasn't in bad enough shape to be there? What if my insurance decided not to cover it?
Then here's another practical problem. How to hide it from family members. My dad is stressed out enough over me and over other things. And if he knew I were in a hospital, he'd feel obligated to contact my mother and tell her. My mother cannot find out. She doesn't know about my mood disorder as far as I know. She's difficult, overprotective, chronically worried about everything, has panic attacks herself, is vehemently opposed to psychotropic medication, and would probably try to take some sort of nasty action against my doctor for having me on multiple medication. She'd think the medication was causing my problems and try to get me to go off. She'd tell everyone, distort reality, and never again treat me as a healthy person. It'd be the end of life as I know it. If I were unreachable for days at home it'd be a problem. I'd have to lie about going to see a friend somewhere....
Anyone else have this problem?
> I also do think that it's good to discuss with your therapist, just to get the idea in your head. I never would even have considered it if we hadn't talked about it.
>
> I hope that you've felt better today, a least a little bit.Thanks for the good wishes. I hope you have an acceptable day yourself.
Emme
Posted by yesac on June 26, 2003, at 14:37:00
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » yesac, posted by Emme on June 26, 2003, at 6:34:21
> Then here's another practical problem. How to hide it from family members. My dad is stressed out enough over me and over other things. And if he knew I were in a hospital, he'd feel obligated to contact my mother and tell her. My mother cannot find out. She doesn't know about my mood disorder as far as I know. She's difficult, overprotective, chronically worried about everything, has panic attacks herself, is vehemently opposed to psychotropic medication, and would probably try to take some sort of nasty action against my doctor for having me on multiple medication. She'd think the medication was causing my problems and try to get me to go off. She'd tell everyone, distort reality, and never again treat me as a healthy person. It'd be the end of life as I know it. If I were unreachable for days at home it'd be a problem. I'd have to lie about going to see a friend somewhere....
>
> Anyone else have this problem?Yeah, I've thought a lot about how my family would react to the situation of me being hospitalized. I mean, it would totally shock them to say the least. I've hinted at the idea to my sisters, but they have sort of written it off as me overreacting, thinking things are worse than they are, that I just need to hang in there, etc. Words of support, but not exactly on the mark. Anyways, yes, it would be extremely mortifying for me, but I think that I would need my parents' financial support to help cover the hospital bills (I have a $1500 coinsurance amount before my insurance covers 100%). It's good that they don't live around here, because I wouldn't want them dragged into my "recovery" after my release. No thanks!!
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2003, at 14:40:52
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » yesac, posted by Emme on June 26, 2003, at 6:34:21
Your mom sounds a lot like mine. I've just learned to politely say goodbye when she starts her rants. Fortunately she lost her ability to hurt me an awful long time ago.
You have to do what's best for you. You can't worry overly much about whether your family will be upset or angry. They'll live, and probably learn to accept. Or not. But if you're pretty consistent about telling her that you won't listen to certain things, and politely saying goodbye if she starts to talk about them, chances are good she'll eventually get trained.
Or at least that's been my experience.
Posted by Miller on June 26, 2003, at 15:20:09
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » yesac, posted by Emme on June 26, 2003, at 6:34:21
Emme,
I do know how you feel. But, just so that you can see a little into your own shadows of grief, I copied this statement from your post. "It'd be the end of life as I know it." Emme, isn't that what you want and need?
I was in the hospital in December and January. It was involuntary. My husband told every one of his relatives. I was mortified. (I don't communicate with my own family.) It turned out to be the best thing he could have done. All of a sudden I found out people I had been seeing for years also suffer from some form of depression. It did change my life as I know it. It gave me hope. I started really trying to get my emotions under control.
I wish for you the same strength. Think very hard of what it is you truly yearn for. I hope you find it soon.
:)
-Miller
Posted by yesac on June 26, 2003, at 15:27:28
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » Emme, posted by Miller on June 26, 2003, at 15:20:09
>to be the best thing he could have done. All of a sudden I found out people I had been seeing for years also suffer from some form of depression. It did change my life as I know it. It gave me hope. I started really trying to get my emotions under control.
Despite all my fear of mortification, I have also wondered if my family finding out could be a blessing in disguise. I think it would be really embarrassing and shameful for me, but I think that they probably would support me and maybe ever respect me for really trying to get help. And, they would finally understand (not that I have tried very hard to get them to) how bad off I really am. It would really change the family dynamics, really get things into the open instead of shoved under the carpet. And heaven knows I am not the only one with problems (both of my sisters are in therapy and on medication). Just maybe the most severe/life-threatening problems!
Posted by Emme on June 26, 2003, at 21:20:53
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » Emme, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2003, at 14:40:52
> Your mom sounds a lot like mine. I've just learned to politely say goodbye when she starts her rants. Fortunately she lost her ability to hurt me an awful long time ago.
>
> You have to do what's best for you. You can't worry overly much about whether your family will be upset or angry. They'll live, and probably learn to accept. Or not. But if you're pretty consistent about telling her that you won't listen to certain things, and politely saying goodbye if she starts to talk about them, chances are good she'll eventually get trained.Sensible advice. I'm told they can be trained....
I wish I could train her to not over-react to everything. She has been convinced for a decade that I have an eating disorder (I don't). She finds problems where they don't exist. Her response to an actual problem would be extreme.But I do need to worry less about what everyone thinks of me. I guess if people want to be critical of someone they can find something at any given time anyway...
Posted by Emme on June 26, 2003, at 21:46:46
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » Emme, posted by Miller on June 26, 2003, at 15:20:09
> Emme,
>
> I do know how you feel. But, just so that you can see a little into your own shadows of grief, I copied this statement from your post. "It'd be the end of life as I know it." Emme, isn't that what you want and need?Yes, but I was hoping it would be an improvement. I just don't think I have it in me right now to take on educating and overcoming the prejudices of a very volatile person. My mother used to take ativan and I guess it wasn't a good experience for her and now she refers to everything as "pills", with contempt for them and the people who take them. She doesn't approve of my cousin's and uncle's use of AD's and benzos (doesnt understand the difference between drug categories either). I've tried to explain that there are many different types of psychiatric medicines, etc., and that some people really benefit from them. Does no good. Dad at least is open minded.
So yeah, you're right, I could use the end of life as I know it. But the family part might be more than I am ready to handle.
> I was in the hospital in December and January. It was involuntary. My husband told every one of his relatives. I was mortified. (I don't communicate with my own family.) It turned out to be the best thing he could have done. All of a sudden I found out people I had been seeing for years also suffer from some form of depression. It did change my life as I know it. It gave me hope. I started really trying to get my emotions under control.I'm so glad your husband's family turned out to be such a good source of support and hope for you. That's so great. It sounds like they helped keep you from feeling alone. Do you feel like your time in the hospital benefitted you?
> I wish for you the same strength. Think very hard of what it is you truly yearn for. I hope you find it soon.Thanks for the good wishes. :) At the moment it's hard to feel much hope. But I'm goin' through the motions...sorta...
Emme
Posted by Miller on June 30, 2003, at 13:19:24
In reply to Re: Getting worser and worser » Miller, posted by Emme on June 26, 2003, at 21:46:46
Emme,
Yes, the time in the hospital benefitted me greatly. I do, however, think that if (at the time) I had been seeing a therapist that understood me better, I may not have ended up there at all. I am working with a therapist now who does understand me. Although I still have ups and downs, I can see the improvement.
And yes, my family-in-law does a have a great understanding of what I am going through. However, my husband doesn't. THAT is difficult for me. I hope you have a support team for yourself. Of course, there is always this forum.
You always have our best wishes. All of us understand the pain and frustration of these illnesses. Anything you may be uncomfortable speaking publically about, can be discussed in private most of the time. Just ask and most of us will give private email. Me included. :)
-Miller
Posted by maryhelen on June 30, 2003, at 22:29:49
In reply to Emme, posted by Miller on June 30, 2003, at 13:19:24
Emme:
I understand the pain that you are going through.
I have been in hospital four times, twice I was certified. I was so terrified. I was so ashamed and humiliated. My daughter was only sixteen at the time of my first hospitalization. I was ashamed for my family, my mother and 9 brothers and sisters to know. With friends and coworkers I used more energy hiding my depression than the energy that the depression zapped out of me.
To make a long story short, I feel blessed today that I have had the experiences that I have had. I have come to know that depression is an illness. I am very, very open about it now. I do not think I have encountered one person that has been critical and does not respect my honesty and it is amazing how many people can relate, either with their own experiences or friends or relatives. When I was open about myself at the school I work in, six teachers told me about their struggles and that they were on antidepressant. Nothing is like it seems.
I would honeslty say that meeting all those whom I have in hospital has enriched my life. In fact, I have learned so much about life, different mental illness, to have more compassion and have no judgement of other peoples differences. I have met cutters, sex addicts, survivors of sexual, physical, verbal abuse, rape victims, and even a person whose father practised beastiality on the dogs at home, schizophrenics, anorexics, people who are paranoid, Vietnam vets when I was in a hospital in Cleveland (I am from Canada) and to truly understand what it was like to come back from that horrible war. I am a drug addict myself, pain medications, and have met alcoholics, heroine addicts, cocaine addicts, the list goes on. I was also in 3 substance abuse programs.
I know I am going on too long, but I just wanted to tell you about my experiences.
Without my illness and my good fortune to meet, know and understand all of these people, I feel my life would be like those who judge others when they don't understand what we go through and feel that they are better than us. No one is better that us because of the nature of our illness. In a heartbeat, those who judge, could be a heartbeat away from joining us.
If I can do a small part by taking away the stigma of mental illness, by being forthcoming and honest, than my life has more meaning to it than if I had never been ill, even though it has been hell one earth.
Do you think your mother would want to try, at least to listen and understand you, or go to your funeral.
maryhelen
Posted by Emme on June 30, 2003, at 23:23:13
In reply to Emme, posted by Miller on June 30, 2003, at 13:19:24
Hi Miller,
> Yes, the time in the hospital benefitted me greatly. I do, however, think that if (at the time) I had been seeing a therapist that understood me better, I may not have ended up there at all. I am working with a therapist now who does understand me. Although I still have ups and downs, I can see the improvement.
I'm glad you have a good therapist now.
> And yes, my family-in-law does a have a great understanding of what I am going through. However, my husband doesn't. THAT is difficult for me. I hope you have a support team for yourself. Of course, there is always this forum.
That must be tough -very frustrating and isolating for you (and maybe for him as well if he can't understand what's going on.) Does your husband try to be supportive even if he doesn't fully get it?
Last week was scary. I didn't end up going to the hospital. I periodically have these "mood crashes", a lot like the "whoosh, down the rabbit hole" described below. My therapist has been away. But my pdoc has been great. We agreed on some minor medication changes and she has had me call her every day. I know she really feels bad that I feel bad, and her compassion helps. I'm going for a second opinion with someone she recommended (she's quite competent but likes to get a second opinion sometimes). I have to wait a month for it and it'll be really pricey. It will probably be worth it to get some fresh ideas.
I have nice friends - some with mood disorders. But somehow, the support I get from my therapist and pdoc bolster me up better. I guess they understand the best.
This week is starting out better - let's see if it lasts. I still feel breakable. I think everyone here does.....
> You always have our best wishes. All of us understand the pain and frustration of these illnesses. Anything you may be uncomfortable speaking publically about, can be discussed in private most of the time. Just ask and most of us will give private email. Me included. :)
Thanks. I appreciate the kind wishes and willingness to e-mail. Same goes for me also. If you want my e-mail address, let me know.
Emme
Posted by Emme on June 30, 2003, at 23:53:08
In reply to Hospital experiences made me a better person, posted by maryhelen on June 30, 2003, at 22:29:49
Hi Maryhelen
Thanks for being willing to share your experiences. I've heard good and bad about people's experiences. Hearing what you and Miller said makes me a little less afraid should I need to go.
I totally agree that going through what we go through makes us more compassionate about mental illness. Several years ago I would have been appalled at my current situation. I wasn't *totally* unsympathetic towards people with psychiatric problems, but I wouldn't have been able to understand at all. And I had some inaccurate preconceptions. Nowadays I'm more open than many people, though I carefully choose who I tell.
> If I can do a small part by taking away the stigma of mental illness, by being forthcoming and honest, than my life has more meaning to it than if I had never been ill, even though it has been hell one earth.
Well put. I never thought of it quite that way. I definitely wonder how to best make my life meaningful. Maybe it already has been in ways that I didn't think of.
> Do you think your mother would want to try, at least to listen and understand you, or go to your funeral.Well, the funeral sure wouldn't be high on her list. :) Though when the suicidal feelings are strong, all that doesn't matter. Sound selfish, but it just gets drowned out because the pain is so intense. Brio d Chimps posting below about the last suicide did pack a punch. I should print it out and keep it on hand.
But anyway, the effort of trying to get Mom to understand me and get through to her on the issue of medication would be exhausting. She makes enough unkind comments as it is. It's not the time. Maybe some day, if I can prep her somehow before hitting with the full ugly truth.
My dad is in the know. But even he doesn't really fully get it. And I think he doesn't want to - it would upset him too much, poor guy. He wants to know a little. Sorry for the rambling. I guess the strain of my family is on my mind. They're nutty in the first place. Dinah is right that I have to do what's in my best interests without regard to what anyone will think.
Okay, I run on when it's late and I'm tired.
Take care,Emme
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