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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fallsfall on May 14, 2003, at 12:41:08
In reply to I can't believe how bad I feel, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 10:21:47
Not wanting to eat is really tough. Sounds like you are not hungry at the same time. At least if you are hungry it is easier to force yourself to eat (because you know it will make you feel better).
I went through a 4 (?) month period of not wanting to eat. Nothing looked or sounded good, and I wasn't hungry. I made a chart and checked off when I ate a meal (a bagel, a yogurt, a peanut butter and jelly sandwich - I love those, a TV dinner). For a long time I was eating one a day (most days - sometimes 2, sometimes none).
My chart also had other things - exercise, socialize, get out of the house etc. They are called ADLs (Activities for Daily Living). Eventually I asked my therapist to care about the chart because I didn't. That helped (can you spell dependency?) because I was trying to eat for her, and that was a stronger motivator than doing it for me. Over time it got better (I'm still not good as far as eating goes), and my appetite is there sometimes - which really helps.
You could make a chart for mouthfuls, and see if you can increase it every day. Sounds like your husband would care. Could you work on it for him? I also wouldn't be too concerned in the short term about what you eat. Chocolate is always a favorite of mine - and it gives you energy even if it gives no nutrition. It also gets your body used to eating something. I also go with Chocolate milk... I wouldn't recommend alchoholic beverages though, they tend to mess with your meds. Start where you are. Try to do a little more each day. If you backslide you'll do better the next day.
What is your very favorite food?
Hugs
Posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 12:46:27
In reply to I can believe how bad you feel » Dinah, posted by bobby on May 14, 2003, at 11:39:16
Dinah
I'm sure you know that starvation diets are not particularly effective, and I assume that your doc's goal for you would be not only for you to lose weight, but also for you to develop healthier eating habits. In the short run what you're doing now will help you lose weight (it already has) but is counterproductive otherwise. I, too, think you should check with your doc about seeing a nutritionist.
Also, if you can't eat much at meals, why not eat alot of very small meals? I'm told that's a healthier way to eat anyway.
Please take care of yourself.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 15:50:02
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel, posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 12:46:27
Thanks everyone. I gave in and ate something a bit bad for me at lunch, and I feel somewhat better now. You guys are right, and I called my doctor to get a referral to a dietitian. Thanks for the kick in the rear. Maybe he/she can provide me with a meal plan that will be palatable enough to actually eat.
Fallsfall, thanks for the notion of involving my therapist. I'll check with him and see if he's willing to get involved with it as a CBT type exercise.
Nikki, you're right about how involved the notion of eating can be. It's got so many emotional levels. It's frustrating to me because I *know* what I should do, and at a nice rational level, I want to do it. But my stomach seems to be controlled more by my emotional side, and it's got a mind of its own.
Lee, I looked up diabetes and temper and did find a lot. I feel a teensy bit better about my behavior this last little while. The worst of my temper tantrums was at my parents' doctor's office. Since he's an endocrinologist/diabetes specialist as well as an internist, I was thinking of switching to him myself. But after my temper tantrum yesterday, I was too embarassed to consider it. Perhaps, though, his staff is familiar with that sort of thing and I should think again about it. Maybe in a few months when they've forgotten my face. Sigh.
Thanks again, everyone. It's nice to have such wonderful support when I'm feeling not particularly loveable or worthwhile.
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 16:48:46
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 15:50:02
". . . my stomach seems to be controlled more by my emotional side, and it's got a mind of its own."
Hey Dinah, aren't there a lot of serotonin receptors in the stomach? It seems like I recall seeing that somewhere. When you get a chance (and if you want), do a search on "serotonin receptors" and "stomach" on Google.com.
Here's one:
http://www.aikidoaus.com.au/dojo/docs/2nd_braina.htm
Awwww, don't feel bad about the doctor's office! You don't feel good - they know that! I bet it wasn't nearly as bad as you might have thought it was.
My good friend has always asked "Lee, could you tell I was sort of telling so and so off" and I honestly couldn't tell the difference and I bet the other person couldn't either. I'm willing to bet it's the same in this instance with you.
I wonder if there's a "Junk Food Lover's Diabetes Cookbook" out there? I mean, there's every other kind of cookbook! There may be some tricks to the trade that you can learn along the way in order to not feel so deprived (which is how I would feel!). I had another friend who had diabetes (in another state) and she used to eat and drink just about anything she wanted. She was a nurse and would just test herself then shoot herself up as needed after each indiscretion.
I once saw a woman in the restroom of a restaurant doing the same thing.
In closing, I don't mean to try to lead you down the thorny path - not in the least! But it could be that there are some creative ways to get over this hump in the road.
Posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 17:25:25
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel, posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 12:46:27
Dinah my pet I know it's a shock to be diagnosed with something as serious as diabetes. I felt the same way about my high blood pressure - not even 35 and it was through the roof. I had to switch medications several times, each time it made me sick and nothing was working. I got very discouraged, expecting to stroke out or drop dead at any minute, I felt like a walking time bomb.
So you do have to get to the "acceptance" phase
where you say okay, I have this medical condition and I need to take steps. Did I quit drinking and smoking? Of course not. Although I do decline the salt rim on the margarita. Well, usually. Alright, sometimes I do.
But I'm very good about taking my medication, at least I do that much. I take it religiously and
I keep regular appointments with my GP. And I do have a good friend - I'm not making this up - about my age, who found out that he had high blood pressure years ago, but he didn't want to rely on daily medication. He quit drinking and smoking, but he didn't want no truck with no pills. And guess what, now he's dying because hypertension destroyed his kidneys. He goes in for dialysis three times a week and he's just sort of wasting away because they're having trouble finding a good donor match.So don't, you know, ignore your condition. I believe I read in one of your earlier posts that you're not dependent on insulin injections, but I do believe that, if you don't take care of yourself, you will start to deteriorate. And we don't want you to do that!
Nutrient support is invaluable, particularly if you're not eating right. Those one-a-day vitamins don't do squat, you need the serious stuff. I don't turn my nose up at medication in favor of "natural healing" but neither do I discount the protective and healing properties of sufficient nutrients (remember scurvy?). The following is from a "wellness guide" by Dr. Julian Whitaker:
"The most important vitamins and minerals for diabetics of both types (types I and II) are vitamin C, vitamin E, vitamin B6, chromium, and magnesium...Deficiecies are found in most diabetics and can promote complications...A chronic, latent deficiency of vitamin C will lead to a number of problems for diabetics. Wounds heal poorly. Immune function will be depressed. Cholesterol levels will climb..." He goes on to name all the bad stuff that can happen due to a deficiency of each. Now hold onto your socks because here's what he recommends daily:
Vitamin C - 5,000 mg in divided doses (usually 3)
Vitamin E - 400 to 800 IU supplemented with
Selenium - 200 to 400 mcg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) - 25 to 100 mg
Chromium - 200 to 400 mcg
Magnesium - 250 to 500 mgHe also recommends an herb that apparently assists the pancreas in producing insulin, which helps support the body in countering the effects of diabetes. It's called Gymnema sylvestre, 400
milligrams per day for either type of diabetic.Now, if you don't feel like eating right, you can swallow some vitamins can't you? Give your body SOMEthing to work with. Also, there's nothing wrong with "grazing" - instead of sitting down to three meals a day, you eat just a handful of this or that all day long...as long as you're not eating just crap, this can be quite good for you.
I like cold baby carrots and all types of nuts -
both nutritious.You don't have to change your whole life around,
but you do have to start taking baby steps. You can say, I'll put this bowl of carrots (or grapes or trail mix or whatever) right up front in the refrigerator and every time I go into the kitchen, I'll just grab a few. You can do that, or you can tell me to shut up and mind my own business. Either way, I do wish you well.
-Gracie
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:05:12
In reply to Re: I can't believe how bad I feel, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 14, 2003, at 10:33:33
Dinah, would it help to take part in a support group for people with diabetes? I'm sure you are not alone in having a hard time with this.
Posted by shar on May 14, 2003, at 18:58:21
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel, posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 17:25:25
I feel very grateful that we have people here who can relate to your illness. I read a few of the posts, and the one by White Rabbit seemed very reasonable. Like, not totally changing your whole life to accommodate diabetes, but doing the necessities (which I think is whatever it takes to make your head stop hurting! OUCH!).
I hope you can incorporate some of the things that will make you feel better, and if you have a tantrum or two...well, now you have something to blame it on!!
Please take good care!
Shar
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 19:24:04
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel » Dinah, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 16:48:46
That was a fascinating link. And it makes perfect sense. Back a few years in therapy, when my emotions were largely inaccessible to me, I'd "listen" to my stomach to see what I was feeling. If that makes any sense. I still do it to some extent.
My mother has always been like her friend. You'd certainly never know that she had diabetes from what she ate. She'd just up her insulin. But she's paying a pretty nasty price for it now. She's got limited mobility and periodic bleeding behind her eyes. I don't know, maybe that's just inevitable. I sort of hope not.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 19:33:02
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel, posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 17:25:25
You mean my one purple Flintstone's chewable won't cut it? lol. I'll put on my list of things to do to look for vitamins that don't upset my stomach. I know it's possible. My prenatal vitamins didn't.
I know you're right about the acceptance. I also manage to "forget" to do my blood testing. I think I've done it twice this week so far. I know this is partly rebellion. And it probably isn't wise to think of things in black and white. No more white bread with melted butter. No more taco salads. It's bound to make things worse. Baby steps are the right idea. Hmmm... Maybe if I put those bowls out, I'd eat without thinking. And if I eat without thinking, I can't get so darn stubborn about it. Grapes I like. And maybe some cereal.
Thanks, Gracie.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 19:55:13
In reply to Re: I can't believe how bad I feel, posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:05:12
I might start reading the appropriate section of our newspaper. I remember seeing things like that available. Also seminars and things for people newly diagnosed. It might help. I wonder if anyone else is as stupidly stubborn as I am, or if everyone will be gung ho on lifestyle changes.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 19:57:48
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel--Dinah, posted by shar on May 14, 2003, at 18:58:21
> I hope you can incorporate some of the things that will make you feel better, and if you have a tantrum or two...well, now you have something to blame it on!!
Hey, I hadn't thought of that little benefit! :)
Thanks, Shar. I feel so much better tonight after eating a decent (if probably not allowed under my diet) lunch, that maybe the memory will overcome my stubbornness. Hope springs eternal....
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 20:02:30
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 19:24:04
Just two days ago I read of a man who lived to be 104 - with diabetes - and he didn't have any of the typical side effects/symptoms.
I'll try to find that link and post it here.
I often wonder what happened to that friend I mentioned. She was more of an acquaintance than a friend. I would see her at the gym and then we did a few things socially with them - but that was about it.
I'll never forget the day she just yanked her shirt up in the gym locker room (not by my invitation!) to show me her implants. This is not psycho-social-babble related, but I just realized that I more or less have a theory that (some) women who have implants (the ones I've known) seem to be able to "depersonalize" their breasts after the procedure. I don't think this is a bad thing, I just have found it to be the case more often than not.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 20:20:43
In reply to I can't believe how bad I feel, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 10:21:47
Dinah,
Just a quick post. Someone in my family has diabetes, and I know that their mood is greatly affected by the balance of blood sugar. When too low or high on sugar this person can act drunk, unreasonable, childish, angry, silly, and impossible to reason with.
I've witnessed it firsthand and it has been downright scary. Once we were in a restaurant and heard the people behind us say that they couldn't believe someone was so drunk at lunchtime. This person was low on sugar.
Good luck with the diabetes and everything else.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 22:42:31
In reply to Re: I can't believe how bad I feel » Dinah, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 20:20:43
Thanks, Worrygirl.
One of my bosses had that type of problem. He would get quite unreasonable and made no sense. Fortunately, if you told him he needed to eat some sugar, he would listen and eat the sugar. It was remarkable really, because in every other way he was completely out of reality, but he always understood that. Thank heavens. He's got an insulin pump now, and the difference in his temperament is marked. He's much less irritable and hard to deal with now.
Posted by judy1 on May 15, 2003, at 12:11:36
In reply to Re: I can't believe how bad I feel » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 22:42:31
I hope today is a better day for you. After I had a seizure and a glucose reading of 40, I went to see a dietician and found that really helpful. I have a history of eating disorders, so I have to have a fairly rigid written diet to follow, and I still have follow-up visits with her when she fine tunes things. hope this is something you'll consider. take care, judy
Posted by whiterabbit on May 15, 2003, at 23:10:53
In reply to I can't believe how bad I feel, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 10:21:47
Go to www.eDiets.com
I'm totally impressed!
-Gracie
Posted by Dinah on May 17, 2003, at 13:00:53
In reply to Re: I can't believe how bad I feel » Dinah, posted by judy1 on May 15, 2003, at 12:11:36
I have an appointment with a dietitian on next Friday. I'm hoping she'll be flexible enough to be of use to me. I did manage to find a few things that I felt like eating the last couple of days. And Thursday was marvelous. I spent a good part of the day with my dad, away from the rest of the family, and remembered why it was that I enjoyed being with him. Maybe the secret is getting him away from my mom.
But even with that welcome respite, I find I'm spending way too much time curled up staring blankly at the TV. Fortunately, my moods don't seem to last all that long, so this too shall pass.
Posted by Dinah on May 17, 2003, at 13:11:22
In reply to Check this out » Dinah, posted by whiterabbit on May 15, 2003, at 23:10:53
It looks like it's got lots of good info. I've bookmarked it. Thanks!
Posted by wendy b. on May 18, 2003, at 23:32:50
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel » whiterabbit, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 19:33:02
> Hmmm... Maybe if I put those bowls out, I'd eat without thinking. And if I eat without thinking, I can't get so darn stubborn about it. Grapes I like. And maybe some cereal.
Hi Dinah,
Sorry to enter this discussion so late... I'm sorry to hear about your diabetes dx, I hope some of the things people have suggested will help you out.Yes, grapes are so easy to munch on, they're healthy (if you wash 'em), granola bars, nuts (in small amounts), bananas, etc. Whatever is quick and easy to reach for. Although I find cooking to be very therapeutic at times (when I'm not working), the preparation - slicing, dicing, chopping - sometimes is too much for me to deal with... A lot of the time, I just want to be able to grab something and have it *right then*. When I shop, I get the pre-sliced fruit container the grocery makes for the produce department; it has sliced strawberries, washed blueberries (purportedly the world's most nutritious fruit), blackberries, and red raspberries. It's kinda pricey, but I'm willing to pay it because then I don't have to spend the time cleaning and slicing and ultimately throwing away a lot of my fresh fruit because I'm too lazy to stand there and do it myself... I can just grab it from the fridge and eat it right out of the container... piggy, I know, but my daughter and I share the same germ-pool. Also, check out the pre-cored pineapple if your grocery has it, it's much better than canned, and it comes in slices or chunks. Very yummy. And again, no fuss, no muss.
best wishes, and hoping your frustration level is lower by now,
Wendy
Posted by Dinah on May 19, 2003, at 16:15:45
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel » Dinah, posted by wendy b. on May 18, 2003, at 23:32:50
Thanks Wendy,
Yes, I too buy the precut fruit. It seems wasteful on the surface, but since most of the uncut fruit ends up getting thrown away I'm pretty sure the cost evens out. And the pineapple is my favorite. Sometimes I can't quite believe how lazy I am. Can't cut and peel an apple for heavens sake.
I hope the dietition has some useful suggestions on Friday, but I'm not overly optimistic. I'm afraid she'll just give me a cookie cutter diet sheet.
And my mood is still appalling. Today, for the first time ever, I yelled at my son. I have never done that - ever, and I didn't mean to this time. Something needs to be done. What's the use of him having a relatively healthy but very crabby mother?
Posted by wendy b. on May 19, 2003, at 21:10:52
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel » wendy b., posted by Dinah on May 19, 2003, at 16:15:45
Dinah:
> Yes, I too buy the precut fruit. It seems wasteful on the surface, but since most of the uncut fruit ends up getting thrown away I'm pretty sure the cost evens out. And the pineapple is my favorite. Sometimes I can't quite believe how lazy I am. Can't cut and peel an apple for heavens sake.
Well, you know, sometimes that's just how we're feeling. We don't want to be like that, but it won't last forever, and beating ourselves up won't help. I think I'm lazy, but the simple food ideas really get me through sometimes. So, the h__ with it... I can't be perfect.
Likewise with the following:
> And my mood is still appalling. Today, for the first time ever, I yelled at my son. I have never done that - ever, and I didn't mean to this time.Wow, Dinah. You have NEVER yelled at your son? That's amazing. How many parents can truly say they've never done this? (Any parents out there want to comment??)
If you aren't allowed to get upset, and *work through* your anger or frustration, and show your son that yes, Mommy's a person too (remind him of his own frustrations, kids have so many of them), then what you're saying, unconsciously, is that the whole gamut of emotions is not acceptable. Only the good ones are. That's not what you're trying to say, but the picture is painted for him in any case.
And Mommy isn't usually like this, but sometimes it's going to happen (I can't believe you've held it inside for so long), and then Mommy will feel better, and she will say sorry, and mean it, and show her boy that:
1) it's OK, and 2) it's a normal reaction to stress, 3) it can be worked through, and 4) we can come out the other side of the situation being stronger for it. Life: It's a Wild Ride.
Seriously, he needs a positive example, and you can show it to him. No one *enjoys* getting in such a state that we start yelling, but we are only human beings, and the struggle to be perfect will only end in disappointment. So it's not good to always want perfection out of ourselves or our loved ones. That creates its own trouble for children...
I read your comments about your therapist, and the trust factor, and when you gear up to telling him you're angry, he doesn't abandon you. So it's somewhat the same: your son may do something that prompts your anger, and you may lose it... but you want him to know you're still the same loving mom underneath everything, that it's not the person you're mad at, it's the behavior. I realize it's not entirely analogous, but the spirit is the same...
>Something needs to be done. What's the use of him having a relatively healthy but very crabby mother?Just tell him some days you're like a crab, and some days you're like a puppy, and some days you're like a kitty. He'll know what you mean... (even if you don't).
I sometimes make clawing gestures and a scrunched-up face, and tell my daughter I'm the Big Bad Mean Mommy Monster. It makes us both laugh, and we feel better. I used to do it more when she was littler, but I can imagine still saying it when she's 20...my best to you, you are way too hard on yourself, be gentler with Dinah,
Wendy
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2003, at 0:37:09
In reply to Re: yelling » Dinah, posted by wendy b. on May 19, 2003, at 21:10:52
Well, I must confess that when he was a colicky baby, after a few nights of constant crying and very little sleep, I once yelled at him to shut up. And of course was instantly horrified. I'm not even really sure I yelled it. I know I at least said it. But I don't think he remembers that, and that was the last time I came close to yelling.
I hadn't thought of it in that way, though. My son does have problems with trying to be too good, and I hadn't thought about the fact that I might not be providing him with a good role model in that regard. I can't promise that I'll yell at him more often, but I will try to stop feeling guilty about it, and if it happens I'll try let him know that it's ok to occasionally lose your temper. And that someone can be angry but that it's not the end of the world, and he's still loved. After the initial shock wore off, he really took it better than I did. I am so determined to not be like my parents, that maybe I go too far in the other direction.
Mind you, I give him plenty of other examples of lack of perfection. :) Yelling just isn't usually one of them.
Thank you, Wendy, for the perspective.
Posted by mair on May 20, 2003, at 7:01:16
In reply to Re: yelling » wendy b., posted by Dinah on May 20, 2003, at 0:37:09
...for that wonderful explanation. I've never been able to yell at my kids without feeling terribly guilty afterwards, if for no other reason than it signifies a loss of control on my part. It's worse with 2 kids because invariably the other child will side with me and start yelling also, (or at least pitch in with not very helpful comments) and what is already a stressful situation deteriorates into something far worse.
Mair
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 20, 2003, at 8:17:28
In reply to I can't believe how bad I feel, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 10:21:47
There is an article in today's New York Times, citing links between Zyprexa, Risperdal and Seroquel and an increased incidence of diabetes in younger people who would otherwise not be likely to develop it. The article mentioned how little knowledge there is on this, but did cite a Duke University study, which I think many of us read a few months ago, indicating an increased incidence of outright diabetes, but also Syndrome X and pancreatitis in patients who took atypical APs.
You have mentioned that diabetes does run in your family, but you are very young to have developed it, and it may well be reversible if you stay away from those APs completely and work with your doctor and a nutrtitionist. I do hope so, anyway!
Pfinstegg
Posted by noa on May 20, 2003, at 14:21:20
In reply to Re: I can believe how bad you feel » wendy b., posted by Dinah on May 19, 2003, at 16:15:45
The precut vegies can make it much easier to choose vegies as a snack--like the precut celery, or the brocoli and cauliflower, etc. Also, the baby carrots prewashed. And the bags of prewashed salad can help, too.
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