![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 49. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 17:07:54
Prolog--even though there is a whole lot of bad vibes happening on this board, I am trying to ignore all that and keep turning to the board as a source of support. One thing about a board is you can truly ignore stuff, unlike in real life. I am choosing to ignore a lot of stuff and not respond to it lately, because that is how I am taking care of myself. I need to do that. I understand why others might be taking breaks, but I will miss them, and wish that they could ignore some of the hostilities and provocations and manipulations and try to focus on what works here. But I also recognize how hard that is. It isn't easy for me either and I cannot say I am always in a place where I can do so much healthy ignoring. Right now I feel fortunate, because I seem to be able to ignore and not get pulled into the fray, but I understand how hard it is to do so when you are not in such a place. But if it helps, I do hope people will stick around to the extent that they are able to focus on what works here.
OK, on to the real content of the post:
Well, the meetings are scheduled, and already begun. Mine is not until tomorrow, but I already know that I'm probably not being cut. One of my friends was. My hours will be reduced for my primary role, but I know they hate part-timers so they are probably going to have me do two 1/2 time jobs.
I am sick to my stomach. The other friend and I want to do something but haven't figured out what yet.
I am releived in a way, but not. I'm angry. What they said to my friend really angers me because they're wrong. If the cut was purely financial they should have just left it at that and said it was financial and no other reason and her service has been excellent. But they had to kick her while she was down! I am sure she asked "why me?"--it is a natural question. But they should not have then given her an answer. Their answer was nebulous and unsubstantiated anyway. It was not based on fact. It had never been raised with her before as a performance issue. It wasn't even a performance issue. They accused her of not being committed to the organization and "clock watching". What bullshit. She is not a clock watcher. They hired her as a part time employee and she always got her work done. They won't admit this, but the truth is that what they wanted from us part timers was for us to make all 40 full time hours available to them on an on-call basis. Ie, "we'll pay you for 20, but if we call a meeting at the last minute that is not during your regular hours, you are supposed to change your whole life around for us." I'm sorry but they can't own all of our time.
And how dare they accuse of not being committed. It simply isn't true! She did work overtime without pay. She took on special projects of her own initiative. There are things we do that we could not have done as well as we did without her! In fact, there is an annual project I am thinking about and panicking about us doing without her! Before she took it over it didn't work well. Then she took it on and improved it 1000%, making our jobs so much easier. That is just one example.
They are stupid because she is an asset to the organization. I know there are financial cutbacks, but they could have found a way to fit all of us in elsewhere. And kicking her while she was down is just cruel and shameful and disgusting. I mean if not for the financial issue, they would not have let her go for the supposed reason they gave. So besides being untrue and based on some nebulous perception of someone who has no basis to say that, it isn't even relevant. They didn't need to give cause because they said she was laid off for cut backs and not for cause.
I wish I had the means to just quit. But reality is I don't even have one month's mortgage in the bank.
In some ways I have loved my job. I would be sad to leave. But I am also so disgusted, I wonder how I'll be able to continue there.
I will be beginning a serious job search. I am not feeling optimistic about finding something else before I have to renew my contract, but I will try.
I have my meeting tomorrow. If they are re-employing me, I don't feel I can have a smiley, "thank you I'm happy to be continuing here" sort of meeting with them.
Mind you, this isn't one of these huge corporations that always shuffles people around like furniture, it is the kind of enterprise where you would expect them to treat people better. But the organization has lost its soul.
Other people are being cut, too. Some for financial cut backs, some for cause. Some should have been cut a long time ago but have been allowed to go on for years being either totally incompetent or unethical, but had connections with the right people until now.
One other person in the adjoining dept. was cut, I think partly for cause and partly for cut backs. He knew it was coming, though. But he had tried desperately to get his supervisor to set up some supervisory goals, etc. so he could measure how well he was addressing the issues. His supervisor is totally incompetent (but still well connected so not losing his job!) and just kept avoiding giving him any answers. In fact, one time the employee asked straight out, "how do you feel I am doing lately, what do I need to improve?" and the answer from the supervisor was "There's nothing you need to change". To me, it meant they had written him off already, and because the supervisor is an idiot, he didn't know how to go through proper supervisory procedures. An idiot and passive agressive and unable to be direct about anything, and doesn't do his own work, leaving the burden to the rest of the team, and all the other people working under him are miserable and guess what? That may be the other 50% position that is open to me!! I don't know--it could be that or one other thing. But---if it is--is it going from the frying pan into the fire?
All organizations suck as employers. I have been around long enough to know that. Once upon a time I used to look for a place to work where stupid stuff wouldn't happen. That illusion is long gone.
But I am not a good solo flyer--I can't work on my own. Some people can open businesses and do consulting, etc. and are very happy with it. For some it is essential to work that way because they can't work for employers. I can and like a lot of aspects of working for an organizatio. I need the structure. I like going in and having colleagues. But I'm getting tired of the bullshit. Know what I mean?
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 10, 2003, at 17:24:11
In reply to The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 17:07:54
noa...
i read your post..
i dont work..i have kids to tend to..
had only jobs in high school...
do you want to come over and help me clean the house?
sorry i have no constuctive input...
peace jyl
Posted by Greg A. on April 10, 2003, at 18:27:34
In reply to The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 17:07:54
Noa, your post really hit home with me. I am facing a similar situation at my work and can commiserate totally with what you have said. I, too will not lose my job although I may be moved ‘somewhere’ other than where I currently work and have worked for over twenty years. You said that organizations make lousy employers and they do. But they don’t have to be big for that to happen. The people at the top just have to decide that they are important and everyone else is not. Then they treat others with impunity and disregard for their value to the organization.
I felt kicked when I was down as well. I had just returned to work after six weeks off during which I had ECT treatments when this thing about reorganization and my moving came up. Perhaps I made a mistake in telling people where I was on my time off, but I guess I felt I would be contributing to the stigma of mental illness by hiding it. I am sure that has affected the way I am now treated by the managers here. To be told that a move is being made for operational reasons, financial or organizational, is one thing but then to have it added that your work is not up to standard or than you do not fit in well is a complete insult. I am carrying a grudge and will for a long time. I, too, do not feel like working here anymore. I would quit if I could afford it. Instead of being a supportive element in my life, work is now destructive; an impediment to my well being. That’s just wonderful when you spend 40 hours a week there, isn’t it?
Thanks for the insight of your post Noa.
Posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 18:43:40
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by justyourlaugh on April 10, 2003, at 17:24:11
JYL--thanks for just being there! I could come over and help you clean the house, but be careful, I might ask you to return the favor!! And you've heard all about my mess!!
Thanks for the support.
Posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 18:50:21
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by Greg A. on April 10, 2003, at 18:27:34
Greg,
That stinks. What can I say? Keep notes. Since you informed them of your disability, maybe there is some protection? I say that and know that it doesn't mean much, unfortunately because enforcing the ADA laws is very difficult.
FUCK THEM! THere--does that address it better?
I might get a PBC*- but there was nothing more appropriate to say, was there?
*(It might be a first for me, I don't know! Hey, if it is my first, does that make me a PBC virgin?)
Keep your interests first, Greg. Take care of yourself in that hostile environment.
I hope it settles out not too toxically. Keep us posted.
Posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 19:06:41
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 18:50:21
BTW, I decided to take my ativan early because of the anxiety I'm feeling, and I took half a mg instead of the usual quarter. Hopefully it will calm me a bit.
Posted by Greg on April 10, 2003, at 20:15:20
In reply to The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 17:07:54
I’m sorry to hear about the indignity and disrespect you and your friend are receiving at your company, you both deserve better. Ever since the downturn in the job market, more and more companies seem to be adopting this “You’re lucky to have this job” attitude. Not very many places have a mutual respect between employer and employee anymore. About a year ago I interviewed for a job that I was perfect for. I had every qualification they were looking for and then some. Every person who I talked to said they wanted me for the position. Until I talked to the HR Manager. She had set up a salary range of 45 to 55K a year, DOE. During my talk with her she informed me, quite bluntly, that because I would only have to commute 6 miles to her job instead of the 35 miles I commute now, I should be willing to take the lowest salary. I told her, quite bluntly, that I didn’t see what the length I had to drive had to do with my ability to do the job. The 55K was already well below the going rate for my particular skill set. I’m like most people, I put myself thru college and worked hard to learn extra skills to get to where I am today. I don’t think I should be penalized for the length of my commute. A few days went by and I received an email telling me thanks for applying, but they had selected another candidate. And when I called to thank them for talking to me and asked why I wasn’t chosen, I was told the only reason was because I wouldn’t take the bottom end salary. A few years ago I could have negotiated a higher salary, but in today’s market, jobs are at such a premium that employers have you over a barrel.
I’ve seen so many people like your friend get shafted for lame excuses. It almost seems like it just doesn’t pay to work hard anymore. I have no doubt that she busted her ass to do her job, but they needed an excuse, and a bad one is better than nothing at all. I don’t know, maybe it helps the powers that be sleep better at night if they can convince themselves that they had a good reason to let someone go. If her release was because of finances, they should have said so, that would have been the respectful thing to do. What does she tell a perspective employer? “I was let go because they didn’t think I was committed enough”. That looks real good on a resume... I hope she pursues this, because it could have some real negative ramifications on her future. Anyone who works for a company that really respects their workers should consider themselves very fortunate, there aren’t many of those types of places around anymore.
I’d better stop now. The whole job thing in this country is a real sore spot for me, and when I hear about people like you and your friend being treated like this, it just really pisses me off. I mean, this is our livelyhood, not a damn game to be played.Whatever happens tomorrow Noa, I hope things get better for you. Whether it be at the job you have now, or you find something new, you deserve the best. And please tell your friend that I’m sorry about what happened to her and I hope she lands firmly on her feet. With luck, she’ll find a place where she’ll be really happy. I wish that for all of us who are unhappy at our jobs. Probably a pretty big group, eh?
Greg
Posted by shar on April 10, 2003, at 20:40:50
In reply to The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 17:07:54
Noa,
I am wishing you good luck tomorrow, I hope you get to stay--if only for the $$$ and clock watching :)There is no good answer for bad management. There are all sorts of isms at work in organizations and within the people that run the organization (and not all isms are covered by EEOC or other entities). I think the best way for your friend to handle it is to say "They're nuts!" because looking for a rhyme or reason will just make her crazy, because there is not any rhyme or reason.
When I was laid off my last professional job (2 years ago) my boss tried to pull a fast one with some "documentation" and I hit the grievance trail post-haste. That state agency did not have a grievance procedure in place, but I got far enough that the bullshit stopped and we came to acceptable terms for my leaving (except that my heirs and their issue can't sue them. lol--I thought that was pretty good.).
Anyhow, I'm still not employed in a professional position, so as bad as it is where you are, I sort of envy you for having real work, with (I assume) benefits--like health benefits. At the same time, I fully understand your frustrations with the place.
Good luck (whatever that would be in this situation!) tomorrow.
Shar
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2003, at 21:46:35
In reply to The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 17:07:54
Hi Noa.
Can't think of a thing to say other than to wish you the best. And I'm sorry about your friend.
Posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 23:56:17
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by Greg on April 10, 2003, at 20:15:20
> I have no doubt that she busted her ass to do her job, but they needed an excuse, and a bad one is better than nothing at all. I don’t know, maybe it helps the powers that be sleep better at night if they can convince themselves that they had a good reason to let someone go. If her release was because of finances, they should have said so, that would have been the respectful thing to do.
That's the wierdest part of this--they did tell her it was because of finances, ie, reduction in force lay offs. And that it wasn't "for cause". There was absolutely no reason to add the bit about the committment and clock watching. It was simply kicking her while she was down. And, yes, maybe to appease their own minds about why they chose to lay her off vs. me or the other friend.
Interestingly, though: I spoke with the other friend this evening, and she's already had her meeting. She had the meeting,but only wiht the immediate manager, and she was told she is re-employed. But then the higher manager called her in to talk more, and started talking about the "clockwatching" thing. ONly my friend couldn't really tell what was being stated. It was a vague message about not having clockwatching starting with the new contract. She said she didn't even get clarification as to why this conversation was happening, because she was rather dumbfounded about it all. She gave me the warning in case I get this little lecture, too.
With the advantage of this warning, I hope I can think of a good response. If I get this wierd poorly defined lecture, I will ask some pointed questions as to what they are saying and why.
Posted by fi on April 11, 2003, at 14:35:06
In reply to The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 17:07:54
Firstly and crucially, thank you for staying around on the board. Your messages were amoung those that helped me during a very hard time earlier this week. Just today I have started to feel at bit better, and am looking around a bit at other posts.
I agree its very important to be able to keep that basic support function going, whatever else is going on (I'm very out of date, and being very cautious about what I go near at the moment).
I also wanted to say sympathies on these awful ructions at work. The same sort of thing had started to happen in my last job (I left end Jan), with people who did excellent work suddenly finding that their jobs had gone, and the choice was being one of many applying for another different post at the same seniority, or going to more junior posts which would also involve shift work (evening and weekend).
The restructuring was done without consultation (needless to say) and is still causing long drawn out trauma for my ex-colleagues.
I know what you mean about not wanting to be self-employed; I'd be the same. I can only say that I have been incredibly lucky as I have now got a job in a smaller, more dedicated organisation mercifully free of office politics. There arent many jobs that come up which I am qualified for.
So it is possible sometimes to go somewhere better, tho of course I dont know what the job market is like with you.
Thank you again for being there earlier this week.
Fi
Posted by noa on April 11, 2003, at 18:48:09
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by fi on April 11, 2003, at 14:35:06
Fi, thanks. I am so glad you left that situation and found a better one! An organization free of politics? It exists?
As for your cautious approach--good idea. if you feel at all fragile, don't read anything that you think would only agitate you, and wouldn't educate or support you.
Stay strong!
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2003, at 20:29:42
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 11, 2003, at 18:48:09
Noa, wasn't your meeting today?
How are you doing?
Posted by noa on April 11, 2003, at 22:56:21
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2003, at 20:29:42
Dinah, thanks for asking. Yes, I had my meeting--thanks for remembering.
I am fine. Just confused and angry. I was offered a full time job (I have been askinf for full time hours for years), but it will have me straddling two different departments, meaning I'd have to manage two sets of crazy managers!]
On paper the job description is pretty good. They definitly wrote it with my strengths in mind (and weaknesses because they got real specific about deadlines!!hehe!!)
But there are a lot of issues for me that I still have to sort out.
First of all, I am so fucking mad I don't know if I can stay there. I cannot believe how badly they treated my colleague/friend for no good reason. they are wrong on so many levels about their criticism of her and morally wrong to have kicked while she was down. Not only that but in my meeting today it was revealed that there is actually an opening happening in one of the departments I will straddle--a full time opening that my friend is fully qualified for and would have done a great job at. I just cannot understand how they can let her go! I just don't understand it. Why, out of the blue is there this sudden poorly defined criticism of her that is baseless and undocumented and they say they let her go because of financial cut backs, not for cause, and if that is the case, they should be offering her this other position or at least allowing her to apply for it. I just don't understand.
How can I work there without speaking my mind? I don't trust their judgment or their morals or ethics.
There will be 2 managers to deal with (plus more, but first layer next to me is these 2). One is in the deparment I am already in. But the other half of my job would be in the other department. The people there are so miserable with their manager, and he would be directly supervising me. This is the one I mentioned before who is passive agressive and an idiot (that's a technical term, btw) and hasn't the first clue about supervising. And is underhanded and mean and vindictive and stupid!
If I had more money in my account than just barely next month's morgtgage, I would resign. But the chances of me securing another job before I have to respond to them about this one are pretty small.
At best, I would accept it and think of it as one year (contracts are year by year begining July 1), during which I would be looking elsewhere. But I am just having the hardest time imagining working in a professional and pleasant manner with them because I cannot beleive they did what they did. Like I said I don't trust their judgment if they can be so cruel and so stupid to let her go. Stupid! because they don't know what they are losing! And just so bad because of their treating her like discardable trash! It would be different, somewhat, if there really was no other position to place her in, but they have apparently already started interviewing from the outside for the position that is opening up (because they fired someone else who was ready to leave anyway).
I am so disappointed. I am so angry. I am so confused.
I am fine. I am functioning normally, but so angry and sad.
Today in my meeting I was pretty glum, and couldn't really react the way a person might when being offered full time position. I tried to ask a few questions about the job description, and their answers were just wacko because they weren't understanding what I was asking. They answered in a way that clearly tells me they were hearing my questions through this expectation that I (and my colleagues) think unprofessionally and not in team spirit and like we don't want to really work and put in the effort that is needed to do the job right. I'll give an example. Because of the cutbacks, they are combining roles and tasks so that there are more items on my job description than there would have been before--kind of like 1.5 jobs. So I asked if they had envisioned in their minds how execution of the roles and tasks would work given the increase in workload for everyone. I was not asking a rhetorical question! I even said that after their first responses because they answered as though my question was rhetorical and argumentative about the decision to load up job descriptions. So I then also said that I am fine with the idea that the increase in load was happening, I understood why, etc. etc. and my question was not meant to challenge that at all. I said I just was asking that as they had done their strategic planning had they had the opportunity to envision how this all would be succesfully implemented given that it was a significant change? Ie, coudl they share with me any thougths they had about implementation?
They did not get what I was asking and responded again with answers that implied that I would need to think professionally and make it work. One of them even gave as an example that the day before she had to sacrifice her personal plans for the evening to get some work accomplished. Well, that was simply insulting to me. So I calmly said that I wasn't asking about what I would have to sacrifice, but more about how the programs and projects would change. I didn't wait for an answer at that point, and simply said, "you know what? I'm afraid that I am not succeeding in articulating my question in a way that leads to your undersanding what I'm intending, so I'm goign to hold my questions for now and think more about how to articulate them.
Then I said, "I'm sorry I'm not being more cheerful but you understand that the past couple of days have been extremely rough." and they both nodded and said they understood.
I was downright distant and glum in this meeting. I did not smile, I don't think. I was matter of fact as I could be. I asked a couple of logistical questions about the job and about the process and timeline, etc. But I was so cold.
I didn't know any other way to be, really. I'm not a good poker player.
I don't know what to do. I am not in a financial position to leave. And I would miss a lot about working there, really, despite all the problems. I am mad at them for that, too. They changed the place in my mind. There were always problems with suprvisors that enraged me but now it is at a whole new level.
I am taking some vacation leave this week and will have some time to think about it all.
At least I'm not very impulsive, I guess.
Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2003, at 0:12:53
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 11, 2003, at 22:56:21
Oh, Noa, it sounds like a dreadful experience. :(
It's a shame that business rules are different than normal rules. It would be so much easier to be able to just be open, but I know that isn't how things are done. It's a shame you can't directly observe that they seem to have somehow gotten a mistaken impression of the group of workers, and ask how they got that impression, and how you might be able to address their concerns.
I'm sort of lucky in that my office may be full of people who aren't great bosses maybe, in that they don't know how to do the nitty gritty boss tasks well. But they're all people who left the rat race because they did understand that there was more to life than work. So I can't quite imagine what it must be like in a big office where everyone is trying to get ahead. My husband talks about the Dilbertish things that really happen.
Noa, I have always been impressed with how thoughtful and measured you are. If you think the situation is dreadful, it probably is.
You like your work, but the office politics make the job grossly unpleasant. Is it hard to find a job in your field? It at least can't hurt to look around while you're safely employed. I understand completely the financial pressures that keep you there.
I hope you find an answer, Noa. We spend too much time at work to have it be such a stressful place.
Posted by Tabitha on April 12, 2003, at 2:38:10
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 11, 2003, at 22:56:21
Well obviously your job is secure since they want to double your workload.
This struck me from you post:
>didn't wait for an answer at that point, and simply said, "you know what? I'm afraid that I am not succeeding in articulating my question in a way that leads to your undersanding what I'm intending, so I'm goign to hold my questions for now and think more about how to articulate them.
I love that response. It's just the slightest bit baffling, yet totally cool-headed.
Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2003, at 5:28:22
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by Tabitha on April 12, 2003, at 2:38:10
I loved that one too. Since I would have just burst into tears, I really admire that you could keep your head, Noa, and have the presence of mind to say something polite yet firm.
Posted by noa on April 12, 2003, at 11:49:03
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by Tabitha on April 12, 2003, at 2:38:10
Yeah, I'm kind of proud of myself for that one, too. I wish I hadn't even started with the questions preceding it, because it was so quickly getting out of my control, but I am proud of myself for stopping it and regaining control. So many times in my life I feel like I have somehow gotten myself dug into a hole because I didn't feel I had any control over the direction of a conversation. So maybe I'm finally learning how to step back and protect myself? I think that I was able to do that yesterday because I had so much prep going into the meeting--I knew it was likely I was getting a full time job because we kind of knew the number of positions that would be kept and dropped and the people who were dropped had already had their meetings. I also knew I had some of what I feel is rightful anger and that these managers feel some guilt and are somewhat afraid of our anger--this all allowed me to go in there with conviction that I had to listen but I didn't really need to respond much--ie, I could just take the info with me and respond later. I also knew I wasn't sure how to respond at the moment, or how I felt about staying, so I had planned to keep this meeting short and get back to them later. I kind of went in with a "yeah, whatever" attitude in my mind because I was so mad already. That is kind of empowering in a way.
Posted by noa on April 12, 2003, at 11:50:51
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) Noa and » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on April 12, 2003, at 5:28:22
I usually do burst into tears. I get intimidated by the power differential. But in this case I think I was already so angry at how they used their power, and I knew (see previous post) that the worst had already been meted out, that it was likely I was getting asked to stay.
But yeah, it helps to make up for all those times I did burst into hysterical sobbing tears!
Posted by fi on April 12, 2003, at 12:59:14
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long), posted by noa on April 11, 2003, at 18:48:09
I know, I cant believe it either! I find it quite strange not having to do things like put things in writing to cover myself, or trying to put the case for something clearly worthwhile in a way that looks good for revenue generation or enhancing the brand (this in a non-commercial public body!)
Now work in a medical charity- but even more surprised its OK as worked for 3 before that were appalling on office politics.
I'm feeling so happy today as I'm feeling a bit better so the day isnt a struggle (you know what its like when you feel dire and think you havent looked at the clock for ages- but its only another 20 minutes).
So having my first meal for a week (as against milk on its own or with supplement powder) and watching Babe. Nice!!
I do hope that you find a reasonable job soon, either within the current organisation or a new one, too.
Fi
Posted by noa on April 12, 2003, at 15:28:43
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » noa, posted by fi on April 12, 2003, at 12:59:14
Thanks, fi! Put a smile on my face that you're feeling a bit better. Now, is that 2 days in a row?
Posted by noa on April 12, 2003, at 21:52:27
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » fi, posted by noa on April 12, 2003, at 15:28:43
It's eating at me again. I'm enraged and I don't know what to do about this. How can they do this? I wish I could just quit.
I realized that the boss lied to us in our meeting. We had gone in altogether and asked about the process and she said first our managers would decide whom to cut and then we'd be able to apply for any openings. But they lied. They cut my friend and then added the stupdity about their imagined time issue, and basically showed her the door. Then, in my meeting I find out they are hiring for another position for which she is definitely qualified and for which she expressed interest in that meeting we all had. I just don't understand how they can treat a good employee that way!! We know her work best because we work most closely with her. What are they doing? How can they be so evil?
FUCK THEM FUCK THEM FUCK THEM FUCK THEM FUCK THEM
Posted by mair on April 12, 2003, at 22:23:40
In reply to Re: It's eating at me again., posted by noa on April 12, 2003, at 21:52:27
Noa
The only way that this makes any sense is that there is something about your colleague that they didn't like, and it doesn't sound like the clock watching thing. My guess is that you'll not find out what it was, but it was compelling enough for them to want to show her the door. (Maybe they just had someone else they wanted to bring in, or maybe it was just a personality conflict).
Employers would always rather fire someone for cause than not. If they can fire them for cause, the employee isn't as eligible for unemployment, or at least the employers unemployment rating (which determines how much Un-E tax they pay) goes up. Here they were willing to use cutbacks as an excuse which allows her clear access to benefits. That tells me that they may just have really wanted to get rid of her for some reason.
It sucks, but it is their prerogative, like it or not, to assemble the team they think will work best regardless of how flawed you think their judgment is, and if you blow them off, it's a moral victory at best - you've not done anything to help your colleague. Maybe if you stick around you might be able to effect some positive changes in the way management views staff. At worst, you've bought yourself some time to shop around for another job.
Mair
Posted by noa on April 13, 2003, at 11:54:12
In reply to Re: It's eating at me again. » noa, posted by mair on April 12, 2003, at 22:23:40
Yeah, that's the grown up way to look at it, MAIR.
But I still think their judgment was based on a smear campaign by some of the weasels who operate on personality and not on professionalism, and who gave the upper managers some really bad impression of her that is totally inacurate!! I and the other colleague know her work best because we are a team, working together every day!
I know you are wise in your advice, and I can't just go without a job, but I'm looking. I might just accept the job and then give them my pov in as articulate a manner as I can muster up. Then, if they want to fire me for telling them the truth, so be it.
Posted by fi on April 13, 2003, at 12:45:17
In reply to Re: The other shoe (long) » fi, posted by noa on April 12, 2003, at 15:28:43
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.