![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by Ted on August 15, 2002, at 21:21:42
In reply to Re: Welcome to PB Social, Kari! :), posted by Dinah on August 15, 2002, at 19:50:11
> ... I suppose I just have to take the bitter with the better.
Ahh! But like I said earlier, you can sweeten the bitter with a little powdered prozac in the PB&J :-) There are *SO* many people I would like to do that with that I would run out of paper writing all their names down.
Ted
Posted by Dinah on August 15, 2002, at 21:29:05
In reply to Re: Welcome to PB Social, Kari! :) » Dinah, posted by Ted on August 15, 2002, at 21:21:42
We sort of did that with my father. The doctor told him Remeron was a sleeping pill. It did help his sleep, but didn't do much for his depression or disposition I'm afraid.
Perhaps Prozac in the PB&J isn't what's needed after all. But I'm not sure how to slip in a full course of psychotherapy without him noticing. (grin)
Posted by Ted on August 15, 2002, at 21:32:04
In reply to Re: Dinah and boy genius, posted by Gabbi on August 15, 2002, at 15:37:02
Gabbs,
> Unless of course when your son is 19 you tell him that you regretted every moment of it...But wait I think I'm projecting my Mom onto you.
That's awful and just plain mean. My parents weren't mean, just uninterested. They never had a clue and didn't want to. I had to talk them into coming to my highschool graduation, and I graduated with honors in the top 3% (I didn't have to beg, but they were just not particularly interested; they took no photos at all). They just didn't care and no mattter what, I didn't do well enough. I live only 1 (long) day's drive from them, and they have come to see their grandson only twice in 6-1/2 years.
Oh well. I guess we're not all lamenting our lives here because of stellar childhoods & parents. :-)
Ted
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 5:00:10
In reply to Re: Dinah and boy genius » Gabbi, posted by Ted on August 15, 2002, at 21:32:04
How awful for you.
I'm not sure plain out mean isn't better in a way. At least it gives you something to fight against.
I'm sure this is something you already know, but it certainly wasn't personal. I'm sure that's just the way they are wired. :(
Posted by SandraDee on August 16, 2002, at 10:10:23
In reply to Re: Dinah and boy genius » Gabbi, posted by Ted on August 15, 2002, at 21:32:04
I have got some uninterested family members and then the mean ones (err one really).
Anyhow... I think it just goes back to our expectations. I had to really back down my expectations of my mother. And when she says mean stuff right to my face without even flinching, I just force myself to let it roll off my back like water of a ducks back. Some still gets in and hurts, but it's been easier, for me, since I've lowered that bar. My dad helped me a lot with that. Long story... so I'll spare you all and end it here. Sounds like you are doing well these days. Glad to see your posts more and more.
Posted by Kari on August 16, 2002, at 11:40:55
In reply to Re: Welcome to PB Social, Kari! :), posted by Dinah on August 15, 2002, at 19:50:11
Thanks, Dinah :)
I'm sure your husband has many fine qualities :)
The example I gave was extreme and many people have obsessive-compulsive traits of one kind or the other.The important thing is that you learn to appreciate your personality , including the "less serious" side and be grateful for the ability to express those aspects, since not every one is capable of that :)
Posted by .tabitha. on August 16, 2002, at 14:48:19
In reply to Re: Dinah and boy genius » Gabbi, posted by Ted on August 15, 2002, at 21:32:04
Sorry Ted. My mom was kind of like that. For instance, I was in those little school pageants where the kids were taught to do choreographed routines, and she let me know she hated having to come to that stuff. I had a special role and everything. I looked up in the audience after my part and she was sitting there not even clapping or smiling. I think I was like 8 at the time :( She had her depression too, but sheesh. What kind of awful message to send to a kid.
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 14:49:31
In reply to Re: Welcome to PB Social, Kari! :) » Dinah, posted by Kari on August 16, 2002, at 11:40:55
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 14:52:27
In reply to Re: Dinah and boy genius » Ted, posted by .tabitha. on August 16, 2002, at 14:48:19
I can't believe there are so many parents out there that should be forced to attend lifelong parenting classes.
If I ever do that to my son, I hope someone forces some sense into me. But I'm pretty certain I won't.
I'll screw my poor son up in my own special way. :)
Posted by Ted on August 16, 2002, at 16:59:33
In reply to Re: Oh Tabitha..., posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 14:52:27
> I'll screw my poor son up in my own special way. :)
My therapist says that no parents are perfect, and that the goal is "to screw up just enough that the kids will move out and leave the parents alone."
I like her philosophy.
Ted
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 17:19:26
In reply to screwing up our kids » Dinah, posted by Ted on August 16, 2002, at 16:59:33
I like that too.
Is she consistently that wise?
Posted by Ted on August 16, 2002, at 17:56:08
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids » Ted, posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 17:19:26
> Is she consistently that wise?
Yeah -- pretty much. She's divorced, has 3 kids (the youngest is 17). She's been through it all.
She also says that all therapists worth anything also have their own therapist. I thought that wat interesting.
Ted
Posted by BeArDedLADY on August 16, 2002, at 18:26:07
In reply to screwing up our kids » Dinah, posted by Ted on August 16, 2002, at 16:59:33
This Be the Verse
They f*** you up your mom and dad
They may not mean to, but they do;
They give you all the faults they had,
And add some new ones just for you.They were f***ed up in their time
By fools in old style hats and coats,
Who half the time were sloppy stern,
And half at one another's throats.Man hands on misery to man,
It deepens like a coastal shelf,
Get out as quickly as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.Philip Larkin
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 21:53:09
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids, posted by BeArDedLADY on August 16, 2002, at 18:26:07
There's a lot of truth in that.
I can see a few ways that I am repeating the same patterns as my mother. I guess that's inevitable.
But for the most part, I'm trying to come up with my own dysfunctional parenting style. I expect my son to start a support group when he grows up for "Children of Moms who Memorized all the Parenting Books". :)
Posted by Ted on August 16, 2002, at 22:35:20
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids » BeArDedLADY, posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 21:53:09
Dinah & Beardy,
> I can see a few ways that I am repeating the same patterns as my mother. I guess that's inevitable.
Only if you want there to be.
Fortunately my wife knows and understands how seriously her parents messed up and she is determined not to repeat the same mistakes (too many to list here). Her sister, OTOH, is oblivious to their parents' parenting problems and is raising her family in the traditional dysfunctional style.
> But for the most part, I'm trying to come up with my own dysfunctional parenting style. I expect my son to start a support group when he grows up for "Children of Moms who Memorized all the Parenting Books". :)
ROFLMBAOUIC
My son's group will be "Children of moms who read all the parenting books and decided the authors were full of crap and from dysfunctional families of their own".
Yikes! too wordy. Anyway, my wife won't listen to *anybody* (often even me). It's amazing just how much is biological, though. Our son, at 6-1/2, shows all the OCD and potentially bipolar/depressed behaviors my wife and I have, and I don't think they are learned because we are constantly trying to un-teach them.
Ted
PS: My secretary has a bumper sticker which reads:"MY FAMILY IS MORE DYSFUNCTIONAL THAN YOUR FAMILY"
(and her's really is!)
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 22:51:12
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids - Dinah, Beardy, posted by Ted on August 16, 2002, at 22:35:20
I think you're right about biology though. Well not always, or I'd have to be adopted and I'm not.
My husband and I are a lot alike, and we always hope that genetics isn't additive or, gasp, multiplicative.
On the other hand, my parents are a perfect match in one way only. They are both completely insensitive with skins like rhinos. And they gave birth to me, one of the most oversensitive persons in the world, with no skin at all.
So maybe our kids aren't doomed after all.
Posted by .tabitha. on August 16, 2002, at 23:52:35
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids - Dinah, Beardy, posted by Ted on August 16, 2002, at 22:35:20
My mom once told me what her childhood was like. It sounded barren, lonely, and loveless. I was thinking wow, that's *exactly* what mine was like. Then she told me how determined she become not to be the same kind of mom to me and my brother. She did different things, but the experience ended up the same for me as for her. I really felt sad for us both. :(
Posted by Ted on August 17, 2002, at 0:48:11
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids - Dinah, Beardy, posted by .tabitha. on August 16, 2002, at 23:52:35
> My mom once told me what her childhood was like. It sounded barren, lonely, and loveless.
My parents didn't talk about their childhood at all. Well, my mother did minimally, but not my father. My mother's dad abandoned the family in 1931+/- when my mother was 1 year old, and her mother died when she was only 3. As a result, she was shuffled around among aunts & uncles who raised her, often separated from her brother.
My father was for all practical purposes excommunicated from the family because he married the wrong woman. My dad was a Quaker and my mother wasn't -- that was reason enough. After they married, they moved 2000 miles away and only visited home 4 times in 25 years. My father didn't even go to his dad's funeral.
Another similarity: My father was the youngest of his siblings, my mother was the youngest of her's and I am the youngest of my siblings. Go figure.
As a result, I have gathered genealogy materials and stories from relatives, including my dad's 92 year old brother, to piece it all together. The story gets clearer every year.
>I was thinking wow, that's *exactly* what mine was like.
I fear my family is turning out all too similar. Not for any of the above reasons, rather from the fact that the above circumstances made my parents very distant with their families, so they didn't know whow to raise a cohesive family themselves. I hardly know my brother -- he doesn't even answer email I send.
>I really felt sad for us both. :(
I always wondered what it was like to have a close family. I'll never really know.
Ted
(golly, now I'm getting all teary)
Posted by _alii_ on August 17, 2002, at 1:08:23
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids » .tabitha., posted by Ted on August 17, 2002, at 0:48:11
>>>....As a result, I have gathered genealogy materials and stories from relatives, including my dad's 92 year old brother, to piece it all together. The story gets clearer every year.
> I always wondered what it was like to have a close family. I'll never really know.
>
> (golly, now I'm getting all teary)
Ted<<<<<Ted,
This book was a healing thing in our family. I gave it to my mother a few years back because I knew next to nothing about any of my family beyond our core unit of 3.
To Our Children's Children: Preserving Family Histories for Generations to Come
by Bob Greene, D. G. Fulfordhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0385467974/drbobsvirte00-20
I hate linking to amazon yet it seems to be the most widely accessible for most users.
Just an idea....if not for you at lease then for you to record YOUR life stories for your children.
Just a thought.
--alii
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:38:39
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids » .tabitha., posted by Ted on August 17, 2002, at 0:48:11
Goodness that is a painful history. It's no wonder your parents didn't know how to create a loving home. It's so hard to overcome that early training -- even with years of therapy, which people of our parents' generation didn't have.
I've only managed to end the cycle by not having children at all. This sounds silly, but it really means a lot to me that my cat at least seems to have formed a secure attachment to me. Previous pets did not. I feel I must have finally made some progress after all.
An also teary,
Tabby
Posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 7:13:06
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids » Ted, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:38:39
You know, while I've been thinking of not being my mom, it occurs to me that I haven't yet had the chance. My mom was pretty terrific when I was very young. It wasn't until I reached the age that I wasn't her other half that the trouble started.
When I was little she was always ready to play with me. Anything I wanted to do was great with her. She was my best friend.
I guess there was still a bit of bad stuff. She and Dad fought continuously and loudly. And I know she was still insensitive, because she used to leave me at Kindergarten (before the days of after school care) until she felt able to pick me up after her job. And I don't think she realized how scary that was for me, to be the last little kid at school, waiting for that car to drive up. Well, I know she didn't, because she kept telling me I was fussing while she was trying to do her best. And she had a few rages.
But overall, she was a fun terrific mom. And probably, in the early years, I'm not as good a mom as she was. Those happy go to the park, impromptu picnic times are rare for me, but pretty standard for my mom...
Now when I got older it was a different story.
So I still have time to test those resolutions.
Posted by Ted on August 17, 2002, at 9:29:33
In reply to total aside for » Ted, posted by _alii_ on August 17, 2002, at 1:08:23
Hi Alii,
> To Our Children's Children: Preserving Family Histories for Generations to Come
> by Bob Greene, D. G. FulfordWe sent that book plus a large, blank, bound university composition book and a package of pens with waterproof ink to my parents about 3 years ago. My mother said she has written "a little" and that she can't get my dad to read the book or write anything at all.
Ted
Posted by Ted on August 17, 2002, at 9:47:52
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids » Ted, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:38:39
Hi Tabby,
> I've only managed to end the cycle by not having children at all.
I tried too, but a marriage is made of 2 people, and my wife was rather insistant, especially after about 8 years together. And, yes, we started out with a couple of kitties (they are still with us).
> my cat at least seems to have formed a secure attachment to me.
Our cats have developed attachments to us, but what's funny is that they seem to shift with time. Our oldest cat was "mommy's baby" until about 2 years ago, and now it drives me batty with affection while ignoring mommy. The other cat followed me around like a dog and annoyed me to death with affection, but now he hangs out with mommy and is "just a friendly buddy" to me.
> I feel I must have finally made some progress after all.
Yeah, but cats bring their own problems. One of our cats pees on our bed & pillows every time we return from a vacation. She doesn't do it while we are gone, but starts on the day we return. Her way of saying, "leave me alone again and you know what is going to happen. Take a vacation at your own risk."
Ffftt. Cats. Fuzzy, shedding, brainless reservoirs of cat pee and collectors of fleas. :-) :-)
(at least the flea problem is solved)
Ted
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 14:59:49
In reply to Re: screwing up our kids » .tabitha., posted by Ted on August 17, 2002, at 9:47:52
>Ffftt. Cats. Fuzzy, shedding, brainless reservoirs of cat pee and collectors of fleas. :-) :-)
I used to have 2 house rabbits (that means rabbits in the house with no cages) and what a horror that was. Shedding, droppings (they're only partially box-trained), and nothing could ever be left on the floor or it would be chewed. Entire books were consumed. Large holes were eaten out of favorite clothes. Woodwork was gnawed. Carpet was dug to shreds. At one point I also had 2 free-flying parakeets. Let's just say the animals were happy but the human suffered.
The current cat lives entirely outdoors. Another bit of progress for me, I'm imposing workable limits on this relationship. :)
Posted by mashogr8 on August 18, 2002, at 17:01:58
In reply to Re: cats... » Ted, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 14:59:49
I think my parents actually did the best they could but in my eyes, it was sorely lacking and I am as I am because of their approach.
My mom's parents were Irish immigrants, as were my dad's, but my mom's dad wouldn't let her go to Nursing School because they felt she was too wild and would waste the tuition(If you knew my mom, you'd be rolling down thirty hills laughing at that description). She had wanted to go to Nursing School, they sent her to Katherine Gibbs instead and off to Met Life to make coffee. My dad had no chance really to go to school. He enlisted in the Marines during the war. When the war was over, they got married and I wound up joining them before they had been married for one year. My sister was right behind me. Family expenses mounted, my dad tried night school but he worked two jobs and just gave up. They were determined we would go to college. They(my mother, of course) however, would dictate our choice of majors. Women were teachers or nurses. You would not dream of taking up a job that might rob a man of a job which he needed to support his family. The woman belonged at home.
I was not even allowed to go on the French class's trip to Paris because I might get stolen -- geeesh; they talked so much about how difficult and whiny I could be, you'd think they might let me go and hope that might happen. I never tried to become the doctor I wanted to be precisely because I listened to my mother. I know I made the choice to listen to her but that was the ultimate mistake in my life. I did everything I was supposed while young and was supposed to have the thrill of making my own choices when I became an adult. Happiness awaited me. Of course, lots of times I feel like I am four or five so I don't believe I made it to adulthood yet. What a waste of living. Pretty soon senility will overtake depression which is a real downer.I, as well as my husband, were bound and determined to raise our children differently and we certainly did. I am really proud of my older daughter as she is still at the age of 28 taking the MCATs for Med. School (And my mother says, she should give up!!!). She hopes that her work record will more than make up for a crappy senior year. And my 23year old, bless her parents worried souls, has grasped the independence I so longed for but never trusted myself to have and was scared to death of. She has disappeared from our family for one whole year. At the moment, she is in the Republic of Kiribati living on a southernmost island where she is one of three white people. Kids come up to touch her skin. The family that she is living with are kind of interesting. It is extended from grandparents down to babies. But the young ones cry when they see her. A. thinks it's because the children are told that if they don't behave the white ones will take them away from their homes. Scary that sounds like something my mom did say.
My children have succeeded not being wimpy or constrained by me. I just wonder what they will hate about us and spend a life on meds trying to correct our damage.
ma(feeling quite small at the moment)
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.