![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mist on August 16, 2002, at 11:55:46
What is considered a normal level of happiness? Since I've been mostly unhappy in my life (related to depression but maybe also involving other things) I'm not sure how much happiness is realistic to expect from life. I'm feeling a little better at the moment. (My level of depression has varied throughout my life from severe at times to moderate -- where I'm functional but feel terrible and want to die -- rarely mild.)
But I still feel weighed down sometimes. I'm not sure how to sort out unhappiness from depression, either (in my case, I think it may be easier if one's depression symptoms are mainly physical). I wonder if I'd feel unhappy even if I didn't have symptoms of depression. Maybe it would depend on the duration of the feeling.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Posted by judy1 on August 16, 2002, at 13:17:31
In reply to How much happiness can you expect?, posted by mist on August 16, 2002, at 11:55:46
I think that really depends on your personality- I have high levels of expectation because I have a hyperthymic personality, my husband doesn't- he has a dysthymic personality. I honestly don't think someone's personality can be changed with medication- but I do think if you're determined it can be changed through therapy. Maybe that's something you can examine with your therapist, I would think as your depression improves you will expect more happiness out of life. I wish you the best- judy
Posted by mist on August 16, 2002, at 21:35:57
In reply to Re: How much happiness can you expect? » mist, posted by judy1 on August 16, 2002, at 13:17:31
Judy,
That's interesting about expectations, personality, etc. I hadn't thought of it that way. I probably have a dysthymic personality like your husband. Feels like a curse sometimes. I do hope therapy can make a dent in it. (If I ever go back to therapy, that is. So far I haven't found it to be a great deal of help but maybe I just haven't found the right therapist).
> I think that really depends on your personality- I have high levels of expectation because I have a hyperthymic personality, my husband doesn't- he has a dysthymic personality. I honestly don't think someone's personality can be changed with medication- but I do think if you're determined it can be changed through therapy. Maybe that's something you can examine with your therapist, I would think as your depression improves you will expect more happiness out of life. I wish you the best- judy
Posted by shar on August 17, 2002, at 0:22:50
In reply to How much happiness can you expect?, posted by mist on August 16, 2002, at 11:55:46
Happiness is a messy subject, in my opinion. My therapist once pointed out that to many people happiness is when the perception of one's life is mainly "nothing is wrong" or "I don't have any big problems."
Also, there is contentment vs. happiness. I've always thought of happiness as a sort of extreme emotion--like when someone gets that million dollar check from Ed McMahon, or finds out they are pregnant and it's a good thing, or ... finds out some other special good news.
Contentment, on the other hand, I see (and felt, years ago) as a more earthbound experience, an every day feeling ok, waking up and not dreading what is coming, even having more pleasure than pain usually (whether on the job or at home...just in general). Like, to me, having enough money in the bank to pay the bills, and then some, on a regular basis, lends itself to contentment. Or, walking into my house and feeling safe. Sanctuary. Some people would call that happiness.
Then, of course, is the Pollyanna style of happiness, and lil orphan Annie, and tomorrow, and a spoonful of sugar, and the hills are alive with the sound of music, type of "happiness" that seems totally fake to me because I have never experienced it and those people I've met who are like that never seem genuine to me. It's like the Big Lie style of Happiness. I always have a suspicion that underneath that is a ssssnake waiting to judge anyone in pain.
So, I think we can choose our definitions (really, as we do for everything in life), determine what it is for us, and make an effort to get as much of it as possible. The lower you set your standards, the more you can expect.
Standard disclaimer for all of the above being only my opinion, not meant to insult or put down anyone, nor to upset or anger anyone, and totally humble to boot.
Shar
> What is considered a normal level of happiness? Since I've been mostly unhappy in my life (related to depression but maybe also involving other things) I'm not sure how much happiness is realistic to expect from life. I'm feeling a little better at the moment. (My level of depression has varied throughout my life from severe at times to moderate -- where I'm functional but feel terrible and want to die -- rarely mild.)
>
> But I still feel weighed down sometimes. I'm not sure how to sort out unhappiness from depression, either (in my case, I think it may be easier if one's depression symptoms are mainly physical). I wonder if I'd feel unhappy even if I didn't have symptoms of depression. Maybe it would depend on the duration of the feeling.
>
> Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Posted by judy1 on August 17, 2002, at 3:09:04
In reply to Re: How much happiness can you expect? » mist, posted by shar on August 17, 2002, at 0:22:50
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:18:55
In reply to Re: How much happiness can you expect? » mist, posted by shar on August 17, 2002, at 0:22:50
>I have never experienced it and those people I've met who are like that never seem genuine to me. It's like the Big Lie style of Happiness. I always have a suspicion that underneath that is a ssssnake waiting to judge anyone in pain.
You're right, people with that sunny sunny style never have much tolerance for us who live on the darker side. Before I go feeling smug and superior, I'll consider how afraid they must be of facing their own pain.
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:28:02
In reply to Re: How much happiness can you expect?, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:18:55
>
> You're right, people with that sunny sunny style never have much tolerance for us who live on the darker side. Before I go feeling smug and superior, I'll consider how afraid they must be of facing their own pain.
>Maybe I'm not thinking too clearly since I just read Sun Also Rises straight thru. But... I thought my post didn't seem very clear. I've always felt inferior to those fake happy people. Even though I suspect their happiness is fake, it seems like it's better than being chronically depressed. Your post made me realize that yes indeed they do have flaws too, the major one being their tendency to put down or discount others unhappiness. Suddenly I started to feel smug and superior. Then I realized there's no need to put them down for what must be a necessary coping mechanism. Now it's clear as mud, right?
Posted by mist on August 17, 2002, at 10:00:30
In reply to Re: How much happiness ...clarification... Shar, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:28:02
Posted by shar on August 17, 2002, at 13:32:45
In reply to Re: How much happiness ...clarification... Shar, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 4:28:02
Posted by Susang on August 17, 2002, at 19:07:18
In reply to How much happiness can you expect?, posted by mist on August 16, 2002, at 11:55:46
I think a definition of happiness or determination of an acceptable level can vary quite a bit from person to person and can change over time. At one time I was much closer to being one of those Happy People (and I wasn't faking it). I don't mean the sappy Disney-movie type happy but for the most part I was satisfied with myself and the way my life was going. Not free of pain and conflict, of course, but generally pretty darn good and the bad parts were managable. A significant factor was that I felt like the best was still to come and I was optimistic that things in my life would continue to get better and more fulfulling over time.
Sadly, I often don't feel that way now. Is that due to depression or just facing the realities of life? I suppose what I need to do now is readjust my life expecations and be appreciative of who I am and for what I do have. Maybe what I was aiming for is unattainable. I'm still trying to get back to that place of hope, contentment and happiness.
Posted by mist on August 17, 2002, at 22:00:21
In reply to Re: How much happiness can you expect?, posted by Susang on August 17, 2002, at 19:07:18
>Contentment, on the other hand, I see (and felt, years ago) as a more earthbound experience, an every day feeling ok, waking up and not dreading what is coming, even having more pleasure than pain usually (whether on the job or at home...just in general).
I would like this kind of happiness. But I'd also like to get a million dollar check. :)
The "thrill" kind of happiness doesn't last too long though. Once I felt acutely happy because I project I had worked on had been very successful against difficult odds. No one expected the outcome to be what it was because of what we were up against and they attributed the success to me. So I felt very happy for about an hour to an hour and a half, then went back to gloom mode.
> You're right, people with that sunny sunny style never have much tolerance for us who live on the darker side. Before I go feeling smug and superior, I'll consider how afraid they must be of facing their own pain.
One of the meanest people I know towards unhappy people is someone who suffered a serious depression but is now okay and according to her "happy." I'm somewhat suspect of her happiness though since she reacts with an almost Nazi-like disgust to anyone who is in emotional pain or unhappy (including her husband).
>At one time I was much closer to being one of those Happy People (and I wasn't faking it). ... Sadly, I often don't feel that way now. Is that due to depression or just facing the realities of life?
I think maybe depression is deeper, darker, more hopeless, more sinister in a way than unhappiness or dissapointment in life without depression. But it could just be a matter of degree.
Posted by Medusa on August 18, 2002, at 1:51:37
In reply to Looking for happiness but I'll settle for caffeine, posted by mist on August 17, 2002, at 22:00:21
wow, great thread mist.
In my case, unhappiness is separate from the depression. Sure, most of it is interrelated - I'm unhappy with my career (a loser scenario at the moment) and with my level of self-care (manifested in lots of different ways) and with my failure to maintain contact with good persons, who earlier sought contact with me. But I can also look objectively at my life and see that I have a lot to be happy about. There are some things I've done right. Not happy-ecstatic, but positive.
Gosh this isn't making sense at all, and I need to get away from the computer and do something, I'll try to sort this out later.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.